Boot-Up can take up to 5 resets to boot to my desktop

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Denise, Apr 28, 2009.

  1. Denise

    Denise Guest

    Hi,

    I just finished building a pc. The case has 12 bays.

    I have Windows XP Pro x64 and a Gigabyte GA-EP45-DQ6 motherboard. I have
    several Seagate SATA 750G 32Mb buffer 1.5Gb/s hdds that I took out of their
    external enclosures and installed in the case, and I installed 7 new WD SATA
    Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 32Mb buffer 3.0Gb/s hdds. I don't have a RAID
    Array setup. I installed all the drives under the IDE format.

    I first installed Drive C, a new WD 1T hdd. I then installed Windows and
    Drive C was labelled as Disk 0 in Disk Management. After installing drivers,
    updated drivers and some programs and connected the remaining 11 hdds, for
    some reason Drive C was reallocated as Disk 4 in Disk Management.

    Is this okay? The reason I'm asking is because . . .

    I'm having boot problems. . . it usually takes between 2 to 5 resets to get
    it to boot to my desktop, but once it boots up, it works great until I have
    to reboot again. Sometimes it'll boot to my desktop and as soon as I try to
    do something, i.e., double-click the My Computer icon or connect to the
    internet, it reboots instead. I have to reboot every 2 days because the
    computer comes to almost a standstill if I don't, i.e., it freezes for up to
    about 30 seconds at time and when I try to open a folder, it takes about 15
    seconds to open.

    I'm wondering if I'm having the problem because Drive C was reallocated to
    Disk 4. I have 7 WD hdds and they're all labelled the same, just the WD
    model number, so I don't know which WDC hdd is Drive C in BIOS. I've opened
    the case and disconneced all of the drives except for Drive C and rebooted.
    Drive C was then Disk 0. I then re-connected the other drives and rebooted
    and Drive C became Disk 4 again.

    I'm also wondering if this is a Windows problem, not hardware.

    I had no problems with the build . . . everything went smoothly. I tried
    reseating everything to see if it would correct the problem but it didn't
    help. I've updated drivers where updates were available.

    I don't know if this info is needed, but when my pc boots up, it lists this
    info:
    IDE Channel 0 Master - WDC hdd
    IDE Channel 1 Master - Pioneer DVD drive
    IDE Channel 1 Slave - Seagate hdd
    IDE Channel 2 Master - WD hdd
    IDE Channel 3 Master - Seagate hdd
    IDE Channel 4 Master - none
    IDE Channel 4 Slave - none
    IDE Channel 5 Master - none
    IDE Channel 5 Slave - none

    I know that SATA requires a fdd and I have one installed and it works, but
    it's not listed as a Master or Slave.

    DVD/CD drive is first in boot order sequence.

    Other components:
    - Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield cpu
    - mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel
    RAM
    - CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W
    - ASUS EAH4650-DI-512MD2 Graphics Card
    - HighPoint RocketRAID 2300 PCI Express SATA II 8-Port Controller Card

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #1
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  2. What in the world are you trying to do with 11 drives in there? This sounds
    like a Windows Home Server setup! (and if that is ultimately what you're
    trying to do, create a large resource to share on your home network, I
    _strongly_ recommend WHS instead of XP.)

    Drive enumeration can be tricky. Since you're starting from scratch, and I
    assume you don't ultimately care which HD the OS ends up on, just so long as
    it doesn't have problems, I'd suggest starting over, with all drives
    attached. Set a drive to be the boot drive in the BIOS, and then install
    Windows onto that drive (which should show as "C:" in the Windows XP Pro x64
    text mode setup screen). You'll want to load your motherboards SATA
    controller driver using F6, and then install XP x64 onto the drive that the
    setup program says is C:.

    One of the problems with 11 drives is spin up time and contention. If
    they're all trying to spin up at the same time then they're all drawing
    maximum current at the same time, and there's no way to determine who will
    be up and recognized first. Most RAID controllers give you some control over
    this, allowing you to delay the spin up of drives so that they start in a
    deterministic order and create a smaller power surge.
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Apr 28, 2009
    #2
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  3. Denise

    Denise Guest

    Well, Charlie, I set up my computer the way I wanted it . . . IDE format. I
    had 23 external SATA and IDE drives, some were small drives, and I decided
    that I wanted to buy larger drives, combine the files from several smaller
    drives onto the 12 larger drives and save myself the expense of constantly
    replacing externals.

    At this point, I'm past starting from scratch. All of the drives are
    installed and Windows, drivers, programs, codecs, Windows updates, etc, are
    already installed on Drive C.

    I chose not to set up a server, a RAID Array or JBOD. I chose the IDE
    format because it's what I'm comfortable using.

    I don't know why you think that I don't care which hdd Windows is on. I
    installed 1 drive by connecting it to the port recommended in the mobo
    manual. I installed Windows, drivers and some programs onto it and, when I
    rebooted, it was Disk 0. I then connected the remaining 11 drives and when
    I rebooted, Windows re-allocated Drive C to Disk 4, not I. It allocated
    Drive G as Disk 0 but there are no drivers on that drive.

    I cannot set a drive to be the boot drive in BIOS, I have to do it in CMOS.
    Since all of my 1T WDC drives are the same, WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS, and
    no serial number is given in CMOS, I need another method to know which drive
    is Disk 0 in CMOS other than the model number of the drive given in CMOS.
    The only way that I can think of doing that is to disconnect all drives
    except Drive C, go into CMOS and specifically chose the only drive that's
    connected, Drive C, which has Windows and drivers on it. I don't know if
    that will help because when I connect the remaining WDC drives, they will all
    have the same model number and Windows/CMOS might again confuse them.

    I specifically purchased an 850W Corsair psu to handle the spin-up of 12
    drives. I would think that since I installed Drive C first and connected it
    to the port recommended in the mobo manual, installed Windows and drivers on
    it, rebooted and then installed the remaining drives, that Drive C would
    remain Disk 0. Why it didn't and what I can do to fix that is the reason for
    my post.

    The existing Disk 0 is an older, slower and smaller Seagate drive. I don't
    want to install my OS onto it.

    --
    Denise



     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #3
  4. If during installation Windows assigned the letter 'I' to your boot
    drive there is nothing you can do to change it. Even with only one
    drive connected it will still tell you the boot drive is 'I'. The only
    way you can change this is to disconnect all other drives and install
    Windows with only the single drive. Then, after you have your system
    setup and the boot drive is 'C' you can connect all your other drives.
    Even though you have a 850watt power supply you would probably be better
    off with an external drive bay with a controller card that supports 'hot
    swap' and you could then boot up the computer and afterwards turn on the
    external bay.
     
    Bobby Johnson, Apr 28, 2009
    #4
  5. Your problem is not a Windows operating system problem. It's a hardware
    problem. And as such this not the correct group to analyze what's wrong
    with your hardware and how to correct it.

    You really should find a group for hardware hackers who would be better
    able to delve into your problems.
     
    Bobby Johnson, Apr 28, 2009
    #5
  6. Denise

    Carlos Guest

    Denise,
    I am having a very bad experience with a Gigabyte motherboard, though quite
    a different model from the one you have.
    I have sudden reboots, though they are more often in Windows 7 beta (no
    BSOD) than Windows Vista x64 SP1.
    Vista reboots calmed down when I upgraded the motherboard BIOS to the latest
    one, something I had been reluctant to do because it is still beta.
    It did cure the problem in Vista but I am still struggling with Windows 7.
    Do update your BIOS to the latest release.
    Carlos
     
    Carlos, Apr 28, 2009
    #6
  7. Denise

    Denise Guest

    Hi Bobby,

    You wrote . . .

    "The only way you can change this is to disconnect all other drives and
    install Windows with only the single drive. Then, after you have your
    system setup and the boot drive is 'C' you can connect all your other
    drives."

    This is exactly what I did in the begining. I installed one drive,
    installed Windows, drivers, programs, codecs, etc, on it. Another time,
    after rebooting a number of times (while Drive C remained Disk 0), I
    installed the remaining 11 drives. When I powered up, Drive C was
    reallocated to Disk 4. Drive G was allocated as Disk 0 (by Windows ?) but
    there aren't even any drivers on it, only files.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #7
  8. Denise

    Denise Guest

    Hi Carlos,

    Thanks for responding. I updated BIOS and installed all driver updates
    available.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #8
  9. Denise

    Denise Guest

    Please explain why you think this is a hardware problem. The boot drive was
    re-allocated to Disk 4 by software.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #9
  10. Tell me, how many drives you have active at the time of windows
    installation?

    Regardless of how you describe the situation, Widows installed to the
    drive you selected. However, you cannot control how those drives are
    recognized by the BIOS. If you have a mix of IDE drives and SATA
    drives, the IDE drives come before the SATA drives. The lettering of
    the drives is really cosmetic and does not affect any functionality. The
    current versions of Windows doesn't care at all what letter is assigned
    to it. Windows boots based on the drives' ARC Path, not it's letter.

    See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/102873 for an explanation.

    So, that's why I say it's a hardware problem and not a Windows problem.
    It is only your perception there's a problems with Windows when there
    really isn't. Windows know exactly what it's doing and why!
     
    Bobby Johnson, Apr 28, 2009
    #10
  11. Denise

    Carlos Guest

    Denise,
    Sudden reboots (no BSOD) when you are actually using your PC are more likely
    hardware related.
    Bad memory stick, motherboard problem (blown power supply capacitor), and
    the list goes on...
    Air flow might be flaky also.
    Carlos
     
    Carlos, Apr 28, 2009
    #11
  12. It's obvious you are not well versed when it comes to computers. FDD
    are Floppy Disk Drive(s) and will NEVER be displayed along with Hard
    Disk Drives. And, Floppy Disk Drives are neither Master nor Slave.

    Also, SATA does not necessarily require a FDD. The only purpose if the
    FDD is to supply drivers for those SATA controllers and/or
    configurations that are not supported natively in Windows.

    Windows Vista and Windows 7 allows you to supply the drivers, if needed,
    via either Floppy, USB stick, or CD/DVD.
     
    Bobby Johnson, Apr 28, 2009
    #12
  13. Denise

    Denise Guest

    I had only 1 drive installed when I installed Windows and drivers, some
    programs and codecs. It wasn't until a few days later that I started to
    install the other drives. Some of them I removed from external enclosures
    and 7 others were new WD drives. They're all SATA, no IDE drives. The
    drives that I removed from the external enclosures have a speed of 1.5G/s
    whereas the new WD drives have a speed of 3.0G/s. The mobo ports and the
    controller card ports are 3.0G/s.

    I'm not concerned about the lettering of the drives. Windows assigned Drive
    C its letter. I assigned the letters to Drives G thru Q in Disk Management.
    My concern is with the Disk number assigned in Disk Management. When Drive C
    was the only drive installed, it was Disk 0. After I installed the remaining
    drives, Drive C remained Drive C but the Disk number was changed to Disk 4.
    Since Disk 0 is supposed to be the drive that contains the OS, my concern is
    that it may be the reason for the numerous resets in order to fully boot up.
    This is what I'm trying to determine. In other words, could the fact that
    Drive C was re-allocated to Disk 4 be the cause of my computer's boot
    problem. This is my sole question.

    I've disconnected all of the other drives and left drive C connected. When
    I booted up, Drive C was re-allocated to Disk 0 again. As soon as I
    connected all of the other drives again and booted up, Drive C was
    re-allocated to Disk 4 again. I could format Drive C again with the hope
    that it will be allocated as Disk 0 and remain Disk 0 after I connect all of
    the other drives but I don't want to do that unless the problem is due to the
    fact that Drive C was re-allocated as Disk 4.

    I read the information about a drive's ARC path. Since my computer
    eventually completely boots up to my desktop, I assume that Drive C's ARC
    path is correct and I won't have to change boot.ini. If this assumption is
    incorrect, please let me know.

    I just want to know if my boot problem is caused by the fact that Drive C is
    Disk 4 instead of Disk 0 and, if it is determined that it is the cause of the
    boot problem, then I can proceed from that point. . . find out how to make
    Drive C allocated as Disk 0.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #13
  14. Denise

    Denise Guest

    Well, I learned something today. A fdd will never be displayed along with
    hdds and will be neither a Master or Slave drive. That's important to know.
    It resolves one question that I had in mind. Thank you.

    It may be your opinion that a SATA pc does not require a fdd but try POSTING
    without one. It won't. I received a broken fdd and I had to wait 3 weeks
    for the RMA fdd to come back. There was no POSTING without it. I had read
    about that and, when I built my first pc, I found it to be true and it turned
    out to be true with this new pc that I just built.

    These are the components of the pc . . . it's a good system:

    - GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6 LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Motherboard
    - Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield cpu
    - mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel
    RAM
    - Corsair CMPSU-850TX 850W
    - WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB, 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s - 7 Hdds
    - ASUS EAH4650-DI-512MD2 Graphics Card
    - HighPoint RocketRAID 2300 PCI Express SATA II 8-Port Controller Card
    - LIAN-LI PC-201A 12-Bay Case

    I have all MS updates and all driver and BIOS updates installed.

    I did not want to get into a discussion about anything except whether or not
    Drive C being re-allocated from Disk 0 to Disk 4 could be causing the boot
    problem.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #14
  15. It still is related to the ARC Path and the priority of the controllers.
    If you were using one of the MB ports and it was Disk 0 before
    installing other controllers, it would appear the plugin controller has
    a higher priority than the MB and this would account for it moving from
    Disk 0 to Disk 4. But Windows does not control this, it only reports
    what it finds.

    The problem could possibly be alleviated, but with your demonstrated
    expertise over the past year or so, it's not something I would recommend
    for you, and something I will not even try to convey to you since I
    don't hate myself that much! You have made it abundantly clear that you
    like to go in and tweak this and that without the least idea what you're
    doing and then expect others to figure out what you have done and how to
    fix it.
     
    Bobby Johnson, Apr 28, 2009
    #15
  16. Denise

    Denise Guest

    I was able to check each of the drives using HD Tune and they were all good,
    no bad sectors and good transfer and burst rates, except Drive C which was
    slow (new WD drive).

    The case has 4 fans and the video card has its own fan. The temp of each
    drive runs between 39º and 41ºC after it's been on for many hours. They
    start out at around 31ºC.

    The RAM shows up in System Info as 4Gb. If one wasn't working, wouldn't
    System Info not show the 2nd stick of RAM?

    How can I check a mobo or see if there's a blown psu capacitor and other
    things like that? When my pc boots up, it runs very well for the first 24
    hour, very fast. It's just after 24 hours of downloading, surfing, and
    watching videos that it slows down a lot.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #16
  17. Denise

    Denise Guest

    P.S. I should also say that I don't have sudden reboots. The problem is that
    I have to use the reset button between 2 and 5 times in order for it to boot
    to my desktop.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #17
  18. Denise

    Carlos Guest

    Denise,
    Here's an excerpt of your 1st post.
    "Sometimes it'll boot to my desktop and as soon as I try to
    do something, i.e., double-click the My Computer icon or connect to the
    internet, it reboots instead"
    Would that calify as a sudden reboot or what?
    :)

    Regarding the blown capacitor, you'll need technical knowledge to determine
    it.
    Memory sticks can be tricky. They usually work, giving all the memory they
    claim, and fail erratically. Only an extensive memory test program
    (memtest86) can determine it.
    Performance could be dropping down because of some of those energy options
    (varies according to mobo and CPU) that throttle down the processor when heat
    builds up.

    Carlos
     
    Carlos, Apr 28, 2009
    #18
  19. Denise

    Denise Guest

    Actually, Drive G is connected to a port on the mobo, not the controller
    card, so that lets that out of the question.

    It makes no sense that you don't want to help me find a solution to my pc's
    problem. I probably know 100% more about pc's than most of the people who
    come here with their simplistic questions. What are you doing here if not to
    help? It says a lot about you as a person that you think the problem could
    possibly be alleviated but you don't want to give me the information and tell
    me how to do it. All I did was give as much information as I could so it
    could be taken into consideration when trying to determine what the problem
    might be. I don't "tweak" anything on my pc. It's against what I believe
    but I do believe in fixing something if it's broken and I do give information
    first so that it could be determined if something is broken or working as it
    should.

    I asked one simple question . . . is the fact that Drive C being allocated
    as Disk 4 possibly causing the boot problem and, out of all these posts, I
    haven't received an answer.
     
    Denise, Apr 28, 2009
    #19
  20. Because as I have said before - you "tweak" you system without the
    requisite knowledge and experience and expect everyone to get out their
    crystal balls to find out what you did and how to correct it.

    This is a WINDOWS 64-BIT OPERATING SYSTEM GROUP! It is NOT a group
    setup for Denise and ALL her problems. You have been doing this for
    over a year and every time you spout off about how much you know about
    computers. I have also visited a few of the other groups you have
    posted in and people get a tired of your endless problems there too.

    You really don't know as much as you want to think you do and you want
    someone to hold your hand and walk you through each and every problem
    you come up with. Well this group is not intended for that. You can't
    even repeat from one post to another what your problem is - you WAFFLE!

    Knowing 100% of nothing is still nothing!
     
    Bobby Johnson, Apr 28, 2009
    #20
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