Boot record got the boot; missing NTLDR;x64

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by miso, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. miso

    miso Guest


    OK, but the intent is not to make the program bootable. Again, with
    the documentation missing, this isn't very clear.
     
    miso, Jan 28, 2007
    #21
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  2. yes (IOW, for legacy OS's). But even in the old days, if it didn't see a
    boot.ini, AND everything else was as expected, it should boot to the
    default. Remember also that boot.ini can be on a different drive from the
    OS.
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 28, 2007
    #22
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  3. It is never bootable. IT only manages the BCD entries, it isn't itself a
    boot loader
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 28, 2007
    #23
  4. miso

    John Barnes Guest

    The 'default' is located in the boot.ini, so if not present, it must default
    to the volume it is running from as it has no knowledge of other volumes
    (unless hard coded to a particular volume). It still must be on the system
    volume for systems without a Vista bootloader and must be on the volume with
    the executing NTLDR in all cases where present.
     
    John Barnes, Jan 28, 2007
    #24
  5. Ah, but not all ntldr are created equal. You have to have the right one for
    your OSs.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 28, 2007
    #25
  6. Correct.
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 28, 2007
    #26
  7. miso

    John Barnes Guest

    You are very patient Charlie. My guess is you will have written 5 books or
    more before we have enough information from this poster to begin to help.

     
    John Barnes, Jan 28, 2007
    #27
  8. Let's hope not.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 28, 2007
    #28
  9. miso

    Spinnacre Guest

    I agree, Charlie is a saint! I think you've certainly gone the extra mile as
    well, John!

    ~Spinnacre
     
    Spinnacre, Jan 28, 2007
    #29
  10. miso

    miso Guest

    Please state what information you need.
     
    miso, Jan 28, 2007
    #30
  11. miso

    miso Guest

    You have failed to state what information you are lacking. Regarding
    Easy BCD, the help files are not on-line. The neosmart forum requires
    a password.
     
    miso, Jan 28, 2007
    #31
  12. miso

    John Barnes Guest

    What type of drives are in your computer. IDE or SATA Are you multi
    booting? What systems, and specify below.

    For each drive, from Disk Management, could you say what you have on each
    partition and list the items in parentheses for each volume. For example
    disk 0 partition 1 Windows XP X64, (System, Boot, Active, Primary
    Partition) partition 2, etc.

    Did you run the fixboot, or fixmbr as you asked about. If so which drive
    did you do fixmbr for.
    Are you communicating from the problem computer? If so which system are you
    using.

    If you cannot get to disk management on the computer, just give the most
    information you can. You can tell the system drive from the BIOS, it is the
    first drive in boot priority.

    With this information and that you already know how to get into Recovery
    Console, we can plan the next steps.
     
    John Barnes, Jan 29, 2007
    #32
  13. Frankly, at this point, I'm bowing out. I honestly think you need someone
    sitting next to you to solve this, where the feedback loop is more
    immediate.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 29, 2007
    #33
  14. miso

    miso Guest

    Four sata drives set up with nvidia software raid

    Are you multi
    The system has three partitions. One partition has windows XP, which
    is how I first built the PC. It is bootable, though I don't boot from
    it. It is the C drive. The majority of my personal files sit on the C
    drive; The second partition is the E drive, which contains X64 and
    software. The 3rd partition (label slips my mind) is about 50Gbytes of
    a database.
    Since I can't boot, I'm not sure how to get such information. However,
    all drives sit in the raid matrix, which is healthy.

    Note that when I enter the recover mode of X64, it still sees the C
    drive as bootable.
    I got this far on the "xperts" website:
    -------------------
    # boot from XP x64 CD
    # select Repair Console
    # select XP x64 as the Windows to boot to.
    # enter administrator password
    # run fixboot

    * run bootcfg /rebuild
    * Say yes to add the XP x64 to the boot list
    * Enter an identifier for it
    * Blank for OS Load Options
    -------------------------------------
    Beyond that point, what was on the D drive in the instructions wasn't
    clear. Link is
    <http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64/archive/2006/09/28/Fixing-Dual-Boot-
    Problems-with-XP-x64-and-Vista-x64.aspx>


    There is only one drive, basically the raid 10 matrix. Running
    bootcfg /scan finds one Windows install E:\WINDOWS

    Running the "map" command, we have
    C: NTFS 50022MB \Device\Harddisk0\Partition1
    E: NTFS 405485MB \Device\Harddisk0\Partition2
    H: (no type) 66661MB \Device\Harddisk0\Partition3
    D: NTFS 50163MB \Device\Harddisk0\Partition 4
    A: \Device\Floppy0
    F: \Device\CdRom0
    G: \Device\CdRom1

    I'm drawing a blank on the h: drive. Perhaps it is unallocated space.

    I'm using a different computer for communications. It has win2kpro and
    suse 10.2 . Actually tri-boot with open dos.

    Give the software raid, you really don't see much in the bios. [Mobo
    is gigabyte GA-k8n ultra-9 with 4 drives in rain 0+1 AMD64 X2 4400]
    The Nvidia raid window shows the array is bootable.

    Entering the raid, it shows 4 disks. Striping width:2 Striping Block:
    64k
    -------------
    adapt channel M/s Index Disk Model capacity
    1 0 master 0 ST3300831AS 279.46GB
    1 1 master 1 as above
    2 0 master 2 as above
    2 1 master 3 as above
    ----------------------
     
    miso, Jan 29, 2007
    #34
  15. miso

    John Barnes Guest

    Thank you. Your kind words are appreciated.

     
    John Barnes, Jan 29, 2007
    #35
  16. miso

    John Barnes Guest

    Very helpful. Now can we get info on what you did with Partition Commander?
    Which partition did you install on? If I recall it will install, but not
    work properly with x64. Which version did you use. Were you able to boot
    into x86 or x64 from it? Did you uninstall it or do you still boot to it
    first?
    It appears you did a fixboot with no parameters, and that you did not run
    the fixmbr command.

    Also, could you use the copy command to copy both the NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM
    from your x64 install CD (F or G) depending on where you have your CD
    inserted, they are in the I386 folder on the CD, to your E drive.
    You can type the word copy , then hit enter, then type help then enter
    again to get the format
    Also, if possible can you copy the boot.ini from your C partition to the E
    partition.

    From what I see from your info, it seems that Partition Commander has
    changed your active partition to your E partition. If this is the case,
    you need the boot files on the root of the E drive. It may also have hidden
    C.

    If you could please perform the above steps and answer the questions,
    hopefully you will be able to at least get to the boot menu and probably
    boot.

     
    John Barnes, Jan 29, 2007
    #36
  17. miso

    miso Guest

    Obviously, I did something really stupid with Partition commander.
    Here the deal. I set up the partitions with partition magic long ago
    (rev 9 I believe). I put PM on the C drive (32 bit XP) and made the
    partition for X64. That went well. I installed x64, then put PM on the
    X64 partition (e: drive). That turned out to be not a good plan. That
    rev of PM isn't quite happy with X64. However, I managed to get it to
    create the other partitions, though I believe I had to go back and
    format them with X64 itself.

    Now the reason I messed with Partition Commander (rev 9) is actually
    unrelated to my X64 system. I installed the program to copy one 2.5
    inch notebook drive to a new drive [Six times bigger, plus the bearing
    noise on the old drive attracted stray cats.] Now in hindsight, what I
    should have done was set up the X64 machine so that the Raid drives
    were not visible, the boot from Partition Commander to do the drive
    copy. [Hopefully somebody will read this post and remember that trick.
    Hide the desktop drives, and nothing bad can happed to them.]

    Now I think what I did to screw things up was to install Partition
    Commander on X64. It messes with the boot record. I did the backup
    floppies, but both turned out to be identical. [Probably pilot error.]
    Also, the first time I did the copy of the 2.5inch notebook drive, I
    had both the X64 drives and the 2.5inch drives visible from the X64
    machine (i.e. when the desktop was booted in X64). A bad move since
    that made the win2kpro OS on the 2.5in drive visible to X64 and
    partition commander.
    Partition Commander is installed on the X64 partition. Rev 9. This
    would be the E drive. When I couldn't boot, I put in the PM CDROM and
    told it to disable system commander. I suspect that was the nail in
    the coffin.

    Needless to say, but for completeness, the 2.5inch drives are not on
    the desktop X64 machine.
    I can do this.
    No, the C drive isn't seen when I boot the PC. I no longer have the XP
    CDROM. [Yet another story. I bought it on the net. It didn't verify
    with Microsoft. I got my money back and figured I'd go X64. I wasn't
    sure how to get rid of plain XP, so I just uninstalled all the
    software on the plain XP drive (c;), though I left a bootable OS
    there, not that I used it.
    Actually, now that you mention this, the X64 OS is on the C drive. It
    is possible I remembered the drive letters incorrectly, or they got
    swapped. This is certainly a big part of the problem. Now it's funny
    that the X64 recovered lets me "log in" to the 32 bit XP OS drive.

    If this is the case,
    Now the E drive does have the files in question. That is, it has
    NTDETECT.COM 03/25/05 47772
    ntldr 01/16/07 297072

    The C drive lacks these files, unless they are not located on the top
    level of the drive.

    Given all this, would be plan to be log into the C drive using system
    recovery, then do the rebuild, etc. I can use partition commander to
    make C active if needed. In fact, that would be a good first step
    since that can easily be undone. That is, I can make anything
    partition active.

    Actually, I just made C; active and it didn't make a difference.
    Incidentally, the boot.ini found by Partition Commander is on the C
    drive, and it reads
    [boot loader]
    timeout=20
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)windows="X64"
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)windows="X64"

    I'm going to try doing the system recovery on the C: drive and will
    post the results.

     
    miso, Jan 30, 2007
    #37
  18. miso

    miso Guest

    Just an FYI, I put my next post at the bottom rather than risk the
    umbrage of the anti-top posting police.
    At this point, I get the XP loading animation, and then the XP 32 bit
    splash screen (or wallpaper, I'm not sure of the term) pops up. This
    is after copying the ntdetect and ntldr files to c: I have made c:
    active.

    Running bootcfg /scan only finds an OS on the E: drive (wrong drive).
    Just to make sure I have the correct partitions, I have renamed the
    ntdtect, ntldr, and boot.ini on the E drive with the prefix "wrong_".

    For what it is worth, the loader responds to the F8 mode. I get all
    the options.

    To get closer to making it work, I copied found what I think is the
    original boot.ini. This one pointed to partition(1) and partition(2).
    This is getting me closer as the X64 OS popped up (rather than 32
    bits), but it still isn't booting. Rather, I just get the splash
    screen and a bit of disk activity. Maybe it's doing housekeeping. The
    mouse is responsive and the screen has the right resolution.
     
    miso, Jan 30, 2007
    #38
  19. miso

    John Barnes Guest

    Please do not go by the letters in any of your systems. Either stay with
    the letters in the Recovery Console or use partition numbers. If you can
    log into your old XP all that is necessary from this point is to modify the
    boot.ini file to get one of your entries to point to the correct partition
    for X64. Since you are off making your own changes, I have no idea where
    you now are or what you are doing. Just make sure you have the correct
    ntldr and ntdetect.com on the active partition and change the partition
    number on the boot.ini to find the X64 system. I, like Charlie see no
    reason to continue as you need someone there for immediate feedback as you
    start randomly changing other settings when things are starting to work and
    all that would have been necessary is a minor change in the boot.ini Good
    Luck. The initial problem is (was) fixed



     
    John Barnes, Jan 30, 2007
    #39
  20. miso

    miso Guest


    Actually, ignoring drive letters was the key. I installed the old
    boot.ini and cleaned things up enough that I could do a "repair" with
    the X64 CDROM. I've got the machine running now, though I need to do
    all the MS updates.

    Thanks all who helped.
     
    miso, Jan 31, 2007
    #40
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