Best Inkjet Printer for Direct CD and DVD Labeling?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by cmashieldscapting, May 27, 2006.

  1. cmashieldscapting

    Ed Light Guest

    Does it use dye ink instead of the clogging DuraBrite, and if so, how
    water-resistant is it?


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    Ed Light, May 29, 2006
    #21
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  2. Yes, I am interested not just in good colors but in reliable-staying
    ink I don't have to do things to after printing. Which is best for
    this? Thanks.

    Cori
     
    cmashieldscapting, May 29, 2006
    #22
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  3. Does anyone know whether the Epson RX700 uses different ink or printing
    method than the Epson R220, which is most durable as far as such
    qualities as waterproofness, and how they compare to Canon as far as
    waterproofness and the like? Thanks.

    Cori
     
    cmashieldscapting, May 29, 2006
    #23
  4. cmashieldscapting

    Mark² Guest

    Again...that would be the Epson Chrome (pigment) inks present in the huge
    4800 I posted about earlier, or the R2400. They will outlast (by a long
    way) any dye-based inks.
    -Mark²
     
    Mark², May 29, 2006
    #24
  5. cmashieldscapting

    zakezuke Guest

    Does anyone know whether the Epson RX700 uses different ink or printing
    The rx700 does use a diffrent model number of ink, and it uses a drop
    size of 1.5pl, vs the r200/r220 which uses 3pl IIRC. I've not seen it
    in action but it's your basic water based dye.

    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R300_R320.html

    The premium papers for both Canon and Epson are microporous papers
    which are reasonably water resistant. I know I can print on Canons
    pr-101 paper and run it under the tap and not notice any bleeding. But
    this is the paper, not the ink. The inks are totally water soluble.

    The Epson r800/1800 on the other hand use pigment inks. These are more
    resistant to water and light.
    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html
    The r800 features no bells or wistles what so ever, it's a printer, no
    pictbridge it's a printer.
     
    zakezuke, May 29, 2006
    #25
  6. Even though it is "just a printer" that would seem to be the way to go
    for what I want to do. (No one has mentioned thermal bonding rather
    than just printing with ink--presumably that's some highly
    sophisticated professional process the cost of which is out of the
    question?) Using water-based ink is definitely straying deep into the
    territory of hidden costs.

    Sure, with Lightscribe, the output looks comparatively crummy, takes 20
    minutes per disk to produce, and the disks cost twice the amount of
    inkjet-printable disks, but when you do it, it's done. With
    water-based ink going onto a disk, when you don't know what brand of
    disk may work best with what brand of printer and ink, then how long
    are you taking experimenting with different brands, then taking the
    chance that they'll smear, or how much time and money are you putting
    into spraying fixative on each disk, making sure no dust gets stuck to
    the fixative, not to mention no fixative running onto the other side of
    the disk, and waiting for it to dry? Might a 5-minute disk not quickly
    become a 20-minute disk that way? Not to mention, the water-based inks
    used in the other printers cost more per cartridge than the inks used
    in the Epson Stylus Photo 800, although that has 8 cartridges and the
    others have 6.

    I'm thinking of producing archival-quality images not only for myself,
    family, and friends, but for placement in libraries and museums--where
    it stands to reason they *will* get handled by somebody, sometime. It
    looks as if this would also be a good option for printing high-quality
    CD inserts which may also be handled (by people reading titles.)

    Although the ink for an Epson Stylus Photo R800 costs less than for the
    Stylus Photo RX500, of course I'd have to keep that for all the other
    features. What are the opinions of people who have used the Epson
    Stylus Photo R800, particularly for printing directly to disks? How
    does the ink look and act, and how easy or hard is it to set up and
    print a label, keeping in mind I'd be taking images mostly from photo
    CDs or capturing them from a digital source such as a frame from a
    movie, or possibly scans? Thanks.

    Cori
     
    cmashieldscapting, May 29, 2006
    #26
  7. An Epson rep at MacWorld said he thought the R 300 did a nicer job on
    disks than the 800, due to the ink being dye based (vs. pigment for the
    800.)

    F-U set
     
    John McWilliams, May 29, 2006
    #27
  8. cmashieldscapting

    Jan Alter Guest

    The R800/R1800 use Ultrachrome pigment inks. I've had no trouble using our
    R1800 for a year now with the Ultrachrome inks, (knocking soundly on the
    plastic as I write).
     
    Jan Alter, May 29, 2006
    #28
  9. cmashieldscapting

    zakezuke Guest

    Or rather variable costs. The area of given CD is about 1/3 the area
    of a sheet of paper. Yields on cartridges are typicaly given in terms
    of 5%, A given 13ml tank for an r800 @ 5% yield is 400p. CDs,
    assuming this number is accurate, assuming 5% yield and 1/3 the area
    this would be 1200pieces. Assuming 25% yield this would be 240pieces,
    assuming 50% yield this would be 120pieces, and assuming 100% yield
    this would be 60pieces. Assuming 13.50/tank * 7 tanks (IIRC it only
    uses one black at a given time) this is $94.5.

    5%=7.8c/per 25%=39c/per 50%=$1.30/per 100%=$1.58/per

    Do keep in mind that the cleaning cycles on the epson are quite
    massive.

    There is lightscribe, plus on the grey market there is "labelflash".
    Mail ordering a drive overseas isn't an issue, but getting the media
    would be. The last time I checked it was double that lightscribe.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/02/14/labelflash_vs_lightscribe_dvd/

    There isn't a consumer level thermal solution beyond monochrome
    ribbons, with your choice of color. There are wax transfer CD printers
    but I believe these start in the $4000 range. I'm sure no one brought
    these up as the title of your post was "best inkjet".
    I personaly have not found a spray that will work well on DVDs. Water
    based sprays i've tried orange peal too easily, and spar urethane
    reduces data to ashes. Epsons offer a "gloss optimizer" on the r800
    but it's limited to the printed area. I've somewhat considered looking
    into adapting my old r200 to use the gloss optimizer in all 6 tanks and
    applying it to discs, i.e. print on my canon, then print in clear on
    the epson.

    But... though lightscribe offers fixed costs, there is no way it can
    compair to painting discs. Lightscribe is limited to one disc per
    drive at 30min a pop in high quality mode. Painting discs is limited
    to your desk space which can be optimized by putting your discs in
    trays. The offical drytime of the r800 for paper is 24hrs.
    A sprayed dye based inkjet print would do pretty well too... but given
    the choice I'd lean tward pigments. Technicaly speaking I believe the
    durabright series of epson inks outlasts the ultrachrome of the r800 in
    terms of lightfastness, i.e. their cheaper series of printers. But...
    the ultrachrome should it self outlast the archive life of a quality
    home burnt CD/DVD.

    Canon will release their own pigment printer come September, the Pixma
    pro 9500. Again the american version will have cd-printing disabled
    and enabling it is not documented. It's a wide model sporting 10 ink
    tanks.

    Label printing I can speak of to some degree from my r200 experence...
    the r800 isn't going to be any different on the software level. The
    application included is rather limited, but it's good enough to take
    your image edited in another application and printing it.

    Still, consider one of these solutions
    http://www.acoustica.com/cd-label-maker/
    http://www.magicmouse.com/h_discus_detail.html
    http://ww2.nero.com/enu/Nero_6_Ultra_Edition_InfoPage.html
    http://www.surething.com/ST/

    I use acoustica my self. It supports edge printed tracks.
     
    zakezuke, May 29, 2006
    #29
  10. cmashieldscapting

    measekite Guest

    the brand of printer and ink should be the same for there is only one
    brand of ink for each printer
     
    measekite, May 29, 2006
    #30
  11. Couple more questions on Epson R 200 and R 800:

    --Presumably both have the same capacity as more versatile machines to
    enlarge or reduce the size of a copied image? (If I wanted to copy
    something directly, like say for a CD cover, rather than using a
    digital image?)

    --Do either of them have the capacity to print on odd-sized items
    besides CDs and DVDs? The CD/DVD printing feature requires a tray. I
    have several hundred VHS tapes here waiting to be labeled. My options
    are handwriting, which I absolutely refuse to do--way too
    sloppy--throwing away all the original labels and buying labels made in
    sheets to go through a printer--too expensive and wasteful--or putting
    the original labels into an IBM Selectric II (over 30 years old) and
    typing them with a flaky carbon ribbon. If one of these printers had a
    way to put the original VHS labels in, compose a label on the computer,
    and then print directly on the original label, it would be a MAJOR
    selling point for me! But I suppose I'm dreaming.

    Cori
     
    cmashieldscapting, May 29, 2006
    #31
  12. To clear up why I said "more" above, here are the questions/comments I
    tried to post earlier which didn't show up:

    The R 300s must be being phased out as a price isn't mentioned on the
    Epson site, and there are none for sale on Macmall or Newegg and only
    one on Amazon. Lots of R 220s and R 340s around.

    1. How do R 220s and R 340s compare in ink durability and drying time
    to R 800s?

    2. Do either of them come with some fixative method (which I assume a
    gloss optimizer is) or way to install one? I don't like the idea of a
    24-hour drying time on the R 800 any more than I like the idea of
    possible smearing on the others! Thanks.

    Cori
     
    cmashieldscapting, May 29, 2006
    #32
  13. cmashieldscapting

    zakezuke Guest

    Couple more questions on Epson R 200 and R 800:
    Do keep in mind I said before an offical drytime of 24hrs. You can
    handle prints much sooner, or better yet shove them in a case or put
    them in a drive. Also the gloss optimizer is a feature unique to the
    r800/1800. It's because pigments tend to bronze, as in look like
    powder on paper, less like a photograph. It's rather like paint, it's
    tacky in hours but you want to wait for it to fully cure before
    exposing what you painted to water or use.

    The speed at which an dye based printer dries is going to be similar,
    it's the quick dry microporous papers that really do the trick as far
    as handling, which isn't nessicarly an option for pigment ink. Also,
    since you are talking archiveablity they tend to not be the best for
    that application.

    But both the r2x0/r8x0 are printers, which will print any image you
    throw at them. To copy a label, you'd need a scanner. Canon's
    Japanese AIOs include software to do this on the fly, but the software
    is Japanese only.
    Odd sizes are not a problem, though boarderless printing support is
    often limited to the sizes specified in the driver. You can overprint,
    as in print 8.5 x 11 and shove in something smaller. Canon has the
    benifit of officaly printing on something as small as a credit card.
    i'm not sure on Epson, but regardless for VHS labels you'd be best off
    either buying preformed vhs labels, buying sticky paper and a paper
    trimmer, or using some light contact cement and regular paper.
    Typcialy speaking I believe VHS labeling is done with plastic cases
    with an inlay. But if you are talking about taking the offical label
    that came with your blank vhs and shoving it through the printer, this
    actually shouldn't be an issue as all printers that i'm aware of can
    print on 4x6 paper.

    http://www.worldlabel.com/Pages/wl-ol1125.htm
     
    zakezuke, May 29, 2006
    #33
  14. cmashieldscapting

    Bill Funk Guest

    By "original label" do you mean the label that came on the VHS tape
    shell itself? If so, how did you get it off the shell? Are you sure it
    will accept inkjet ink?
    And there's a relatively easy way to do what you want: scan the
    original label, put it over the background in something like
    Publisher, then make and print the label as you wish. Of course,
    you'll need a way to position the label so that it's printed right.
    That's why the labels you say are wasteful and expensive are there:
    the ease of use is great, the paper itself is designed for inkjet
    use,, you don't have to overwrite the original label, and the adhesive
    works better than that on the original (which obviously has to come
    off to be printed on).
    Or did I miss something?
     
    Bill Funk, May 30, 2006
    #34
  15. Most blank VHS tapes for home use come with peel and stick labels not
    already on the shell. Those that do come with labels on the shell come
    with others that can be pasted on over or in place of them.
    No idea.
    Well, it beats cutting something out with scissors.
    I'm not such a purist about original labels for using what came with
    the box as I am for not having to buy bales of blank labels--might be
    the way to go, though. Sticking with the original label I'd have to
    ask not only would the printer ink be compatible, but could I be sure
    of positioning it to print right each time--by which time I could just
    run it through the typewriter. And it's one of the few uses I have for
    this lifetime supply of typewriter ribbon I've got.

    Cori
     
    cmashieldscapting, May 30, 2006
    #35
  16. So is this saying I'd be less well off with the RX700 than with an R
    200 or R 220?
    Still having a hard time deciding which is best. The pigment inks
    sound a bit more archival than the others. Do the others have other
    advantages such as being significantly better-looking, less expensive
    ink, easier use, or anything? Thanks.

    Cori
     
    cmashieldscapting, May 30, 2006
    #36
  17. cmashieldscapting

    zakezuke Guest

    I'm saying the rx700 uses smaller drops. It could mean higher
    resolution, or improved defination, but as i've not met the printer
    personaly I can't say it's an improvement. I can say it costs more and
    has a printhead which by all rights costs more to employ. The ink is
    also different, but that's all I know. I know so little about it I
    have to reference PCmag, which was as always useless.
    Well, you can pickup the r200 referb for $59, it's less than the ink,
    so it's no great loss.
    Dyes look better on photo paper, and probally better on TDK costco
    media.

    Ease of use doesn't really enter into the picture. Near as i'm aware
    the Epson series uses the same software all around for CDs, same with
    canon. The software I listed prior supports the Epson perfectly well,
    and with the exception of SureThing the canon as well. Surething has
    unoffical canon support which is, to be fair, tweeky.

    Though it would seem the Canon ink costs a pretty penny, only having to
    refill 4 tanks out of 5 to do cd printing helps. Canon does a great
    job with only 4 colors. I'm just getting into my ip5200 my self and I
    have to say so far i'm really impressed.

    The r800 is @ $200 for a referb edition, which should carry the year
    warranty the last time I asked epson, is really a good deal. Normally
    the printer is $350/$400. The big benifit is the fact prints look
    good, really good, on regular matte paper, and is archival on matte
    paper. The offical Epson matte paper heavyweight is only $10 for 50
    sheets. Wilhelm-research says the r300 is 30 years under glass, vs
    But this is the time you should ask for a sample from Epson ((800)
    463-7766). Do evaluate the the r2x0/3x0 vs the rx700 vs the r800.
    Specifications and infomation is one thing but you really should see
    pigments vs dye for your self to make the final choice.
    You might want to look at these images as well. They contrast the r800
    with a HP photosmart 8450 and the canon ip8500, a super duper model
    which can only be had on closeout presently.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/12/29/are_high/page6.html
     
    zakezuke, May 30, 2006
    #37
  18. cmashieldscapting

    Allen Guest

    Measure those labels, which vary in size from brand to brand of VCR
    tape. When I say measure, I'm not talking about the label itself, but
    the backing paper that holds the label. Then go to each manufacturer's
    web site and check the minimum size paper that the printer will handle.
    Most have a minimum size of three inches in the smaller dimension, and
    five inches in the larger. The length is not going to be a problem, but
    the width will be.
    Allen
     
    Allen, May 30, 2006
    #38
  19. cmashieldscapting

    Allen Guest

    Measure the labels--not just the label itself, but the sheet of backing
    paper that holds the label(s). Then go to each manufacturer's web site
    and find the minimum size paper that each printer will handle. (While
    you arethere, _please_ checl all the other specs as well.) I think you
    are unlikely to find a printer that will handle paper less than three
    inches wide, which will rule out handling most of those labels that are
    included with the cartridges.

    Allen
     
    Allen, May 30, 2006
    #39
  20. cmashieldscapting

    Allen Guest

    Sorry for the double post. My system told me the first message had not
    been sent, so I rewrote it and tried again.
    Allen
     
    Allen, May 30, 2006
    #40
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