Bayer with NO anti-aliasing (Kodak Pro 14n)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by K2, Nov 28, 2003.

  1. The SD9 beats the 6MP DSLRs in B&W resolution too (which is why they won't
    even post that), but it isn't the blowout you get when testing color
    George Preddy, Dec 1, 2003
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  2. K2

    Guest Guest

    You big fat smelly liar!
    Guest, Dec 1, 2003
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  3. Based on entirely false information, some think that. Most informed people
    agree Foveon is the dominant player right now.
    George Preddy, Dec 1, 2003
  4. "During our tests, we photographed all kinds of subjects - architectural as
    well as "natural" ones - and out of 2,000-3,000 pictures, only one showed
    any signs of aliasing. It was one of four otherwise identical pictures taken
    at the same time and place. The only difference between them was the angle
    at which the hand-held camera was positioned, and/or the focal length of the
    zoom lens. So although the tendency to alias is theoretically greater in
    SD9-made pictures than in pictures from cameras using an anti-aliasing
    filter, the reality is that it was extremely rare in our tests.

    This situation raises a provocative question that each photographer must
    answer on his own: which is worse, a camera that shows maximum sharpness 100
    percent of the time while aliasing once in 2,000-3,000 shots like the SD9,
    or a camera that never aliases but blurs, albeit ever so slightly, 100
    percent of its pictures, like all the others?" edit/may03/ss3.html
    (That's a pre-production SD9 review, the current firmware is even better,
    George Preddy, Dec 1, 2003
  5. K2

    Guest Guest

    Based on YOUR pictures George. The ones that YOU have been posting.

    Canon is the dominat player in DSLR right now. It is not an opinion, it is a
    fact based on sales figures.
    You are completely full of shit.
    Guest, Dec 1, 2003
  6. K2

    Guest Guest

    Extract from : Digital Output - The Business Guide For Electronic Publishers

    That well known photographic publication!!
    Guest, Dec 1, 2003
  7. 1 pic out of 3000 with aliasing.
    George Preddy, Dec 1, 2003
  8. Better yet, why not post some full sized 10D shots? The lack of JPS 10D
    shots speaks for itself, he knows the 10D can't play in this league.
    George Preddy, Dec 1, 2003
  9. Nah, not at $8000 for a comparable sensor count. Canon is going to have to
    do something drastic to get competitive again.
    George Preddy, Dec 1, 2003
  10. K2

    Azzz1588 Guest

    Funny really !!!

    Look for all the good points with foevon, and all the bad with Bayer.

    Yes, I'd call that an unbiased attitude lol...............................

    Meanwhile, Bayer camera's just crush the foevon in sales,
    Why is that ??

    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
    Azzz1588, Dec 1, 2003
  11. K2

    Azzz1588 Guest

    Oppssss.... you just mentioned the truth to george.

    He has no idea what to do with actual facts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Tell us george how much the sigma outsells the Cannon DSLR's ??
    Can you actually do that george ?????????????????

    If not, than why post a lie here ???????????????

    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
    Azzz1588, Dec 1, 2003
  12. K2

    Azzz1588 Guest

    Than why do most informed people here disagree with you ??

    Why do most informed peole explain this tio you, and
    you fail to respond ??

    Why are you soo misinformed ????????????/

    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
    Azzz1588, Dec 1, 2003
  13. K2

    Azzz1588 Guest

    George, didnt your parents teach you not to lie ????

    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
    Azzz1588, Dec 1, 2003
  14. Bart van der Wolf, Dec 1, 2003
  15. Show me, I'm curious.

    Bart van der Wolf, Dec 1, 2003
  16. The Bayer camera, of course. For the same price as the 3.4 MP SD9, or
    less, you get a 6 MP Bayer SLR that captures more real detail than the

    Although the Bayer output looks softer when viewed at 100% scale on
    screen, no one in their right mind would compare two cameras with
    different image sizes in that way.

    You might downsample the 6 MP image to 3 MP, in which case the Bayer
    image will look nice and crisp too - but without the SD9's aliasing

    You might upsample the 3.4 MP SD9 image to 6 MP, in which case it won't
    look quite so crisp any longer, and it will be apparent that the Bayer
    sensor captured somewhat more real detail.

    Or you might print both at the same size. The printer driver will
    resample each image to the printer's native resolution, and the extra
    detail present in the 6 MP Bayer image will be apparent.

    Thus, the question that a thinking photographer needs to answer is: Do I
    want the camera that looks best at 100% scale in an editor, or the
    camera that looks best in my final output format?

    (And if the answer is that you want a camera that looks best at 100% on
    screen, go buy a 3 CCD camcorder. The image resolution is only 640x480,
    but that gives the best "information per unit area".)

    Of course, this is ignoring the SD9's problems with colour accuracy and

    Dave Martindale, Dec 1, 2003
  17. Yes and no. It is true that you lose color fidelity at
    the pixel level using Bayer. But you don't need one color
    only to get good color fidely, just some few pixel large
    areas of similar color.
    Because it does not capture RGB. The Foveon sensor is based on
    wavelength dependent absobtion in doped silicon. You get three
    values for each pixel. Those values are slightly color dependent.
    You then compute RGB colors by transforming. The original
    wavelenght respons of the Foveon layers is rather weird.
    I don't think it is possible to get perfect RGB colors.
    Yes - the matrix filter removes 1/4 of the blue light, 1/4 of the red
    light and 1/2 of the green ligth. Therefore it first looks like the
    sensor should have lower sensitivity. But it has not. Every green pixel
    detects exactly as much green as a true RGB sensor should do. For the
    pixels that do not detect green, green is computed instead of detected.
    This computation is an interpolation and can be wrong. But all pixels that
    actuall are detected has the same sensitivity as a full RGB sensor.
    Fair enough. There are other ways of doing it though. One
    way is the same method as for Sony trinitron - you have a
    red line, a green line and a blue line.

    Roland Karlsson, Dec 1, 2003
  18. How do you define "informed people"?

    How do you define "dominant player"?

    Roland Karlsson, Dec 1, 2003
  19. Sorry - should be 3/4.

    Roland Karlsson, Dec 1, 2003
  20. K2

    Rafe B. Guest

    Got nothting to do with Bayer or Foveon. Either one needs
    to be properly anti-aliased. To suggest that Foveon is
    exempt from that rule is simply ignorant.

    This is about science. The dogma is coming from
    you and Mr. Preddy, primarily.

    I have no qualms with Carver Meade. You clearly
    haven't been listening, much less comprehending.

    The problem isn't with the Foveon concept, the
    problem is that Sigma chose not properly alias
    the Foveon sensor in their cameras.

    We can only guess why they did so. Probably
    to make their cameras more saleable to gullible
    fools such as yourself.

    rafe b.
    Rafe B., Dec 2, 2003
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