B&H Photo gets it right - Sigma SD10 is 13.72MP

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Georgette Preddy, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. I'm quoting B&H. B&H actually uses the cameras they rate very
    honestly, you obviously do not.

    B&H is of course exactly right on this, which is not surprising--the
    SD9 is a 14MP DSLR, since that is the output file it natively
    generates using far less interpolation than all Bayer cameras use best
    case.
     
    Georgette Preddy, Jun 8, 2004
    #61
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  2. B&H, great job!
     
    Georgette Preddy, Jun 8, 2004
    #62
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  3. One looks for independent views on the matter, not the marketing guys
    nor monomaniacal spammers.

    ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^

    The person posting under the name of George or Georgette Preddy (and
    other pseudonyms) has an ungrounded but zealous faith that current
    implementation of the Foveon chip is superior to all other chip
    technologies. He will cite portions of reviews to ostensibly support his
    claims, and will repeat, ad naseum, complete lines of out-of-context
    material, as well as manufacturing some pure bull manure.

    Moreover, "Mr." "Preddy" has claimed to be a photographer (pro!), but
    cannot bring himself to post a single picture with EXIF info that he
    shot himself, in spite of repeated requests and challenges to do so.

    Apparently he loathes anything related to Canon and loves everything
    about Sigma cameras and lenses. His "claims" may be ignored, and he is
    doing Sigma, and anyone related to the Foveon chip, no good at all by
    arousing ire, increasing the N/S ratio, and generally spamming this
    newsgroup.
     
    John P McWilliams, Jun 8, 2004
    #63
  4. Sir,

    You exceed yourself in bombast and fantasy.

    **** **** **** ****

    The person posting under the name of George or Georgette Preddy (and
    other pseudonyms) has an ungrounded but zealous faith that current
    implementation of the Foveon chip is superior to all other chip
    technologies. He will cite portions of reviews to ostensibly support his
    claims, and will repeat, ad naseum, complete lines of out-of-context
    material, as well as manufacturing some pure bull manure.

    Moreover, "Mr." "Preddy" has claimed to be a photographer (pro!), but
    cannot bring himself to post a single picture with EXIF info that he
    shot himself, in spite of repeated requests and challenges to do so.

    Apparently he loathes anything related to Canon and loves everything
    about Sigma cameras and lenses. His "claims" may be ignored, and he is
    doing Sigma, and anyone related to the Foveon chip, no good at all by
    arousing ire, increasing the N/S ratio, and generally spamming this
    newsgroup.
     
    John P McWilliams, Jun 8, 2004
    #64
  5. Independent sources please, not marketers and zealots.

    The person posting under the name of George or Georgette Preddy (and
    other pseudonyms) has an ungrounded but zealous faith that current
    implementation of the Foveon chip is superior to all other chip
    technologies. He will cite portions of reviews to ostensibly support his
    claims, and will repeat, ad naseum, complete lines of out-of-context
    material, as well as manufacturing some pure bull manure.

    Moreover, "Mr." "Preddy" has claimed to be a photographer (pro!), but
    cannot bring himself to post a single picture with EXIF info that he
    shot himself, in spite of repeated requests and challenges to do so.

    Apparently he loathes anything related to Canon and loves everything
    about Sigma cameras and lenses. His "claims" may be ignored, and he is
    doing Sigma, and anyone related to the Foveon chip, no good at all by
    arousing ire, increasing the N/S ratio, and generally spamming this
    newsgroup.
     
    John P McWilliams, Jun 8, 2004
    #65
  6. duplicate post.

    The person posting under the name of George or Georgette Preddy (and
    other pseudonyms) has an ungrounded but zealous faith that current
    implementation of the Foveon chip is superior to all other chip
    technologies. He will cite portions of reviews to ostensibly support his
    claims, and will repeat, ad naseum, complete lines of out-of-context
    material, as well as manufacturing some pure bull manure.

    Moreover, "Mr." "Preddy" has claimed to be a photographer (pro!), but
    cannot bring himself to post a single picture with EXIF info that he
    shot himself, in spite of repeated requests and challenges to do so.

    Apparently he loathes anything related to Canon and loves everything
    about Sigma cameras and lenses. His "claims" may be ignored, and he is
    doing Sigma, and anyone related to the Foveon chip, no good at all by
    arousing ire, increasing the N/S ratio, and generally spamming this
    newsgroup.
     
    John P McWilliams, Jun 8, 2004
    #66
  7. Georgette Preddy

    Bill Funk Guest

    That's the *camera's* max output, not the sensor's.
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 8, 2004
    #67
  8. Georgette Preddy

    Bill Funk Guest

    Of course, so is the Foveon sensor.
    They are electrical devices, and, as such, can't have a *color*
    attribute to their output.
    It's the software that assigns colors to the various outputs, both in
    Bayer sensors and Foveon sensors.
    If you actually understood such things, you could be helpful. As it
    is...
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 8, 2004
    #68
  9. Georgette Preddy

    Bill Funk Guest

    Interestingly, here is how Sigma describes the camera's output:

    "Depending on the intention of the photographer, the SIGMA SD10 allows
    photographers to capture RAW data images in one of three resolutions.
    HI mode (2268 x 1512 x 3 layers) delivers highest resolution image
    performance. MED mode (1512 x 1008 x 3 layers) has high definition and
    recording capacity. LOW mode (1134 x 756 x 3 layers) for capturing the
    most images per given memory capacity."

    I don't see anything there resembling 13MP, do you?
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 8, 2004
    #69
  10. Georgette Preddy

    Bill Funk Guest

    The perfect consumer, by marketers.
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 8, 2004
    #70
  11. The person posting under the name of George or Georgette Preddy (and
    other pseudonyms) has an ungrounded but zealous faith that current
    implementation of the Foveon chip is superior to all other chip
    technologies. He will cite portions of reviews to ostensibly support his
    claims, and will repeat, ad naseum, complete lines of out-of-context
    material, as well as manufacturing some pure bull manure.

    Moreover, "Mr." "Preddy" has claimed to be a photographer (pro!), but
    cannot bring himself to post a single picture with EXIF info that he
    shot himself, in spite of repeated requests and challenges to do so.

    Apparently he loathes anything related to Canon and loves everything
    about Sigma cameras and lenses. His "claims" may be ignored, and he is
    doing Sigma, and anyone related to the Foveon chip, no good at all by
    arousing ire, increasing the N/S ratio, and generally spamming this
    newsgroup.
     
    John P McWilliams, Jun 8, 2004
    #71
  12. Georgette Preddy

    Bill Funk Guest

    The *pixels* themselves have "100% real and discrete full color
    information". By definition.
    It's the *images* that suffer from those defects.
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 8, 2004
    #72
  13. Georgette Preddy

    Bill Funk Guest

    B&H very obviously uses the copy provided by the distributer of the
    products they sell.
    As an authorized reseller, they nust do this to protect themselves
    from claims of restraint of trade.
    IOW, they are only repeating Sigma's promotional materials, which are,
    by definition, not to be considered objective.
    Dream on.
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 8, 2004
    #73
  14. Georgette Preddy

    Bill Funk Guest

    As Sigma themselves say:

    "Depending on the intention of the photographer, the SIGMA SD10 allows
    photographers to capture RAW data images in one of three resolutions.
    HI mode (2268 x 1512 x 3 layers) delivers highest resolution image
    performance. MED mode (1512 x 1008 x 3 layers) has high definition and
    recording capacity. LOW mode (1134 x 756 x 3 layers) for capturing the
    most images per given memory capacity."

    http://www.sigmaphoto.com/Html/Cameras_sd10.htm
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 8, 2004
    #74
  15. It's important to realize, that it is not B&H that is responsible for the
    error in their catalog. Sigma pays for advertising in the B&H catalog, it's
    called cooperative advertising. Just as the weekly ads for department stores
    are mostly paid for by the manufacturers whose products appear in the ads.
    Sigma can put whatever they want in their ads; the laws in the U.S. for
    false advertising are very lax, despite the cries you often hear from people
    about false advertising. In Japan, I read that Sigma had to got the Japanese
    government to redefine what a pixel is, in order to advertise 10.2
    megapixels. Amazing.

    The important thing to remember is that the Sigma and Foveon lies about
    megapixels were fairly recent. When the SD9 was introduced, both companies
    were quite honest about the resolution.

    Sigma used to accurately state: "...for every pixel on a Foveon(R) X3 image
    sensor, there's actually a stack of three photodetectors..."

    Foveon used to accurately state: "The Foveon X3 technology breakthrough is
    accomplished by embedding three photodetectors in silicon at each pixel."

    This was clear and unambiguous. So obviously it had to be changed!

    What happened was that neither Foveon nor Sigma were prepared for the slew
    of 6 megapixel, and higher, Bayer SLRs, beginning with the Canon 10D.
    Suddenly they were competing against the high-end Canon 10D, and Sigma had
    only 3.4 megapixels, while Canon had 6 megapixels. Worse, the Canon picture
    quality was far better than that of the Sigma SLRs so they couldn't even
    compete on quality. No doubt some marketing person decided that it would be
    better to count sensors than pixels. Then they decided to simply try to
    redefine a sensor as a pixel. Some naive people, such as GP, actually fell
    for this. Sigma had to crash the price on the SD9, to under $1000, less than
    a third of what they planned to sell it for.

    If I were Foveon and Sigma, I wouldn't have been so hasty. They've lost all
    credibility with consumers. Foveon is continuing the sensor=pixels story
    with the Polaroid X530, a 1.5 megapixel point and shoot. Unless it actually
    solves all the issues that have plagued Sigma, it will be a very hard sell.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Jun 8, 2004
    #75
  16. [snip...]
    That still doesn't explain why the Sigma photos presented here (as PBase web
    links) so far apparently have aliasing or chromatic aberations that don't
    seem to appear in the Bayer interpolated photos.

    Is it a Foveon sensor problem, a Sigma camera architecture problem, or a
    Sigma software problem?
     
    Daniel W. Rouse Jr., Jun 8, 2004
    #76
  17. Chromatic Aberrations (or Latereal Chromatic Aberrations) is a flaw in lens
    design. Another flaw in the Sigma/Foveon marriage is it only allows the use
    of a single vendor lens (Sigma) who has more dogs than the Westchester
    Kennel Club.

    IMHO.

    ;)
     
    Darrell Larose, Jun 8, 2004
    #77
  18. Georgette Preddy

    PTRAVEL Guest

    Well, now your confusion has me confused. ;)

    As I said, I don't disagree with the "3.4M full-RGB pixels"
    construction. And actually, now that I think about it, the 3.4M red
    _pixels_ . . . etc. is really wrong, as they are red _photosensors_,
    not pixels, and it takes an r + g + b photosensor to make one pixel on
    the Foveon, i.e. both color and luminance resolution are a
    non-interpolated 3.4 Megapixels. However, to reach the luminance
    resolution of a Bayer with 6.3M photosensors, which interpolates color
    but not luminance, the Foveon must interpolate both.
     
    PTRAVEL, Jun 8, 2004
    #78
  19. Georgette Preddy

    tekfull Guest

    Lets see those pics.


     
    tekfull, Jun 9, 2004
    #79
  20. Georgette Preddy

    tekfull Guest

    Lets see those pics.


     
    tekfull, Jun 9, 2004
    #80
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