As the "S/S Olympus 4/3rds" ship sinks, (Olympus abandoned it), thecrew get more violent!

4/3rds sensors are fine for ultra compact cameras, but if you are
going to put up with a normal sized DSLR, you might as well have a
sensor size that makes sense, APS or FF. Meanwhile, the lame and now
dead (owing to pixel number growth in APS and FF) arguments about
"equivalency" can't even stop the boat from going down....

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=36450108

 

Why are you so obsessed with a format (Four Thirds) that you have
moved on from?

 

I own a G1.

 

So why diss Four Thirds?

 

There are two four-thirds forums. One is for the Olympus DSLRs, the
other for Olympus and Panasonic micro 4/3rds cameras. The problem is
the DSLRs. The cheap small ones (now all out of production) had
problems, principally, viewfinders that stunk. The one remaining
production model, the E-5 is a hulking pro-style camera with the small
4/3rds sensor. Olympus in all sanity should have brought out a small,
high-end body akin to Pentax's K7 or smaller, to take advantage of the
small sensor size and yet be compatible with the terrific pro and top
pro lens line. Instead, they canceled all of the cheaper DSLRs and
offered up (after 3 years) a slightly warmed over E-3 as the new E-5.
So, micro 4/3rds is fine (though a high-end body here would be good
too) but the current state of the 4/3rds DSLRs is BAAAADDD.

 

Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
NEX cameras. They still dominate for the same reason Coke dominates
soft drinks and Nike dominates shoes: familiarity.

 

So why don't you just move on and enjoy the equipment you have, rather
than dissing what you no longer have?

I share your disappointment with the route that Olympus have taken
with Four Thirds. It is a pity that Olympus did not have earlier
access to a better sensor with more than 5 MP. It was only when
Panasonic started providing good quality 10 MP sensors that things
began to improve, but it was too late. Nothing anyone says or does
now is going to change that, and it is pointless moaning about it.

So, apart from a few diehards, those of us who invested in Four Thirds
need to move on and enjoy the equipment that replaced it.

 

Not yet.

In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format. In
particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
very dull.

 

All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
bayonet.

 

If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.

Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.

 

Are you inside Canon people formerly Olympus people?
And tell us oh great prognosticator, does Nikon plan the same thing?

I know you won't answer as you claim you killfiled me. Oh! how
heartbreaking. How convenient, you can't be called on your bluster. You
sound just like Brucie the blusterer from another group.

 

Well, both Canon and Nikon have something on the drawing board, but I
reiterate my objection to them that they let others build the market,
do the innovating while they sit on the sidelines waiting to introduce
likely better, but purely derivative products.

 

They always have something on the drawing boards. The timing of the
release will be dictated by business motives. Besides, even if you are
correct, it's smart business to let someone else build the market. Saves
a lot of money.

 

Nikon's camera I'm convinced is coming soon. They apparently have the
camera and at least six lenses ready to go. It's going to be
interesting.

 

: >> >Nikon and Canon have nothing to compete with the micro 4/3rds or Sony
: >> >NEX  cameras.
: >>
: >> Not yet.  
: >>
: >> In 2011, they will, and they will revolutionise the micro format.  In
: >> particular, Canon's offering will make all other micro systems look
: >> very dull.
: >
: >All they have to do is put a 4/3rds size sensor into a G12 and add a
: >bayonet.
:
:
: If they did that, they would be offering nothing new.
:
: Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.

One has to assume you're just guessing. Otherwise, you'd be in violation of
your non-disclosure agreement and would probably never receive any advance
information again. You wouldn't take that risk just to show off here.

Bob

 

Yes, of course I'm guessing, but based on two independent sources. One
was the very detailed rumour that originated in China and has been
very widely publicised. The other is less detailed, but probably a
lot more credible, from a long established UK based Canon dealer who
has recently returned from a visit to Canon in Japan and discussed
future products while he was there.

Both suggested a sensor that is more or less the same size as Four
Thirds, but with a 3:2 aspect ratio. I can't get any more details out
of the Canon dealer, who would obviously be a more reliable source of
information, because *he* has signed an NDA, not me. It is a long
time since I signed one with a manufacturer or importer of camera
equipment. Clients are a different matter.

 

: >: Fortunately, Canon's plans are for something very different.
: >
: >One has to assume you're just guessing. Otherwise, you'd be in violation of
: >your non-disclosure agreement and would probably never receive any advance
: >information again. You wouldn't take that risk just to show off here.
:
:
: Yes, of course I'm guessing, but based on two independent sources. One
: was the very detailed rumour that originated in China and has been
: very widely publicised. The other is less detailed, but probably a
: lot more credible, from a long established UK based Canon dealer who
: has recently returned from a visit to Canon in Japan and discussed
: future products while he was there.
:
: Both suggested a sensor that is more or less the same size as Four
: Thirds, but with a 3:2 aspect ratio. I can't get any more details out
: of the Canon dealer, who would obviously be a more reliable source of
: information, because *he* has signed an NDA, not me. It is a long
: time since I signed one with a manufacturer or importer of camera
: equipment. Clients are a different matter.

So assuming that's all true, let's try to extrapolate a little. The 60D is in
many respects a dumbed down 50D and in other respects a clone of the T2i. No
current 50D owner is going to buy it (we're all eyeing the 7D or 8D anyway),
but it threatens to render the T2i obsolete before the latter even reaches its
first birthday. A plausible inference is that there will never be a T3i.
Indeed, the putative pseudo Four-Thirds ("Three-Halves"?) camera(s) might
constitute a replacement for the whole Rebel product line, and possibly the G
series as well (i.e., no G-13). It could serve as a whole new form of bridge
camera with the potential to encroach upwards or downwards on Canon's other
lines if it sells well and to gracefully shrink out of existence if it
doesn't.

If you're with me this far, I'll throw out a few questions for discussion:

- Will the new cameras accept at least Canon's existing EF-S lenses? If so,
3rd-party vendors like Sigma and Tamron should happily roll with the punch. If
not, or if Canon decides to maintain compatibility but provide the new cameras
with their own, more cost-effective lens series, the 3rd parties could be
royally screwed.

- How will they be regarded by Rich Anderson and Supy the Troll? Each will
have to decide, from their radically different points of view, whether to love
the new line or hate it. How they come to their decisions, and what they
decide, could affect the entertainment level of the photography newsgroups for
months or years to come.

- Are there more shoes that have to drop? Assuming they stop making the 50D,
there's a rather large price and performance gap between the 60D and the 7D.
Those hoping for a more powerful 50D or a cheaper 7D are left hanging so far.
To stay in the game with Nikon's various new models, Canon has to see that as
a problem to be addressed.

Bob

 

I think if Canon didn't offer compatibility with EF lenses, any
mirrorless system they offered would not sell. Every mirrorless
system so far has some level of compatibility with legacy lenses.

Rich will hate it. Unfortunately, he hates everything and everyone,
especially himself.

Canon has a breathing space because Nikon's line-up is temporarily in
a mess. In the consumer range, the entry-level D3100 is probably a
better proposition than the mid-range D5000. The new D7000 is
probably a better proposition than the prosumer D300s.

The D3100 makes an easy choice for someone wanting an entry-level
Nikon DSLR. But who would buy a D5000 when the D3100 is so good? Why
buy a D300s with only 12 MP when you can get a 16 MP D7000 for less
money?

For that matter, the D700's 12 MP pixel count always looked slightly
uncomfortable against the same number of pixels in the D300(s). Now,
a keen amateur prospective D700 buyer will wonder whether the D7000
offers him/her better value for money, and it probably does.

Nikon came comparatively late to full frame. There are millions of
Nikon DSLR users out there who have a selection of DX lenses (for
APS-C) and would face an expensive upgrade to full frame. So it isn't
just the high cost of the D700 (which sells in the UK at 95% of the
price of the Canon EOS 5D Mark II with 21.8 MP), it is also the cost
of buying lenses with full frame coverage.

As a Nikon user looking at the Canon range, I am very impressed with
the EOS 7D and T2i/550D with the excellent 18 MP sensor. Nikon's 16
MP D7000 competes with the 550D there is nothing to rival the 7D
except the D300s whose 12 MP looks inadequate.

Nikon also has the challenge of introducing its own mirrorless system.
No-one outside the company has the faintest idea what it will be like,
but you can be sure that the man-hours spent on its development will
detract from the development of the DSLR range.

So don't worry, Robert. There is something of a hiatus in Nikon's
product development and that means Nikon is in no position to reduce
Canon's market share. In recent months, Canon has successfully fought
back and regained market share at Nikon's expense. That can only
continue until Nikon gets its act together.

 

These 4 MPix, do you think they improve my image?

-Wolfgang

 

Yes.