Army has no shame at all in recruiting tactics

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by La N, May 2, 2005.

  1. La N

    La N Guest

    How Far Will The Army Go?

    Apr 28, 2005 9:59 pm US/Mountain
    How far will U.S. Army recruiters go to bring young men and women into
    their ranks? An Arvada West High School senior recently decided to
    find out. The following is CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger's report..

    ARVADA, Colo. (CBS4) -- Last month the U.S. Army failed to meet its
    goal of 6,800 new troops.

    Aware of this trend, David McSwane, a local high school student,
    decided he wanted to find out to what extent some recruiters would go
    to sign up soldiers who were not up to grade.

    McSwane, 17, is actually just the kind of teenager the military would
    like. He's a high school journalist and honor student at Arvada West
    High School. But McSwane decided he wanted to see "how far the Army
    would go during a war to get one more solider."

    McSwane contacted his local army recruiting office in Golden with a
    scenario he created. He told a recruiter that he was a dropout and
    didn't have a high school diploma.

    "No problem," the recruiter explained. He suggested that McSwane
    create a fake diploma from a non-existent school.

    McSwane recorded the recruiter saying that on the phone.

    "It can be like Faith Hill Baptist School or something -- whatever you
    choose," the recruiter said.

    As instructed, McSwane went on the computer to a Web site and for $200
    arranged to have a phony diploma created that certified him as a
    graduate of Faith Hill Baptist High School, the very name the
    recruiter suggested. It came complete with a fake grade transcript.

    "What was your reaction to them encouraging you to get a phony
    diploma?" CBS4's Rick Sallinger asked.

    "I was shocked," McSwane said. "I'm sitting there looking at a poster
    that says 'Integrity, Honor, Respect' and he is telling me to lie."

    McSwane also pretended he had a drug problem when he spoke with the

    The Army does not accept enlistees with drug problems.

    "I have a problem with drugs," McSwane said, referring to the
    conversation he had with the recruiter. "I can't kick the habit ...
    just marijuana."

    "[The recruiter] said 'Not a problem,' just take this detox ... he
    said he would pay half of it ... told me where to go."

    Drug testers CBS4 contacted insist it doesn't work, but the recruiter
    claimed in another recorded phone conversation that taking
    "detoxification capsules and liquid" would help McSwane pass the
    required test.

    "The two times I had the guys use it, it has worked both times," the
    recruiter said in the recorded conversation. "We didn't have to worry
    about anything."

    Then the original recruiter was transferred and another recruiter,
    Sgt. Tim Pickel, picked up the ball.

    A friend of McSwane shot videotape as Pickel drove McSwane to a store
    where he purchased the so-called detox kit.

    CBS4 then went to the Army recruiting office and confronted Sgt.
    Pickel. CBS4 played him a conversation McSwane had with Pickel on the
    phone. The transcript of that conversation follows:

    Pickel: When you said about the one problem that you had, what does it
    consist of?
    McSwane: "Marijuana."
    Pickel: Oh, OK so nothing major?
    McSwane: Yeah, he said he would take me down to get that stuff, I mean
    I have no idea what it is, so you would have to show me. Is that a
    Pickel: No, not at all.

    Pickel quickly referred CBS4 to his superiors.

    CBS4 then played the tapes and showed the video to Lt. Col. Jeffrey
    Brodeur, who heads army recruiting for the region.

    "Let me sum up all of this with one word: unacceptable, completely
    unacceptable," Brodeur said.

    Hearing recruiters talking about phony diplomas and ways to beat drug
    tests left Brodeur more than a little disturbed.

    "Let me tell you something sir, I'm a soldier and have been a soldier
    for 20 years," Brodeur said. "This violates trust, it violates
    integrity, it violates honor and it violates duty."

    The army says it is conducting a full investigation. Brodeur said
    there is no pressure or punishment for recruiters if quotas are not
    met. They are, however, rewarded when their goals are surpassed.
    La N, May 2, 2005
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  2. Paulo Gomes Jardim, May 2, 2005
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  3. La N

    La N Guest

    I'd say he was more *your* friend Paolito ... ;)

    He/she sure is a chickensh*t, though.

    - n'a
    La N, May 2, 2005
  4. La N

    BadBender Guest

    Well according to the story it will go as far as the law says it can.
    BadBender, May 2, 2005
  5. Ah-ah, now I see that the troll has left his mark:

    I don't know what the people of that newsgroup has done to be harassed on
    this way, but this seems to be a very, very old war. :-|
    Paulo Gomes Jardim, May 2, 2005
  6. La N

    Ron Hunter Guest

    I don't think you should equate the actions of one recruiter to 'the
    Army'. As the Lt. Col. said, it iv a violation of honor, duty, and
    trust, as well as of the law.
    Ron Hunter, May 2, 2005
  7. La N

    LawsonE Guest

    One thing I think that LtC Brodeur said that I believe was misleading is
    that there is no "pressure or punishment" for not meeting goals. Don't you
    lose your recruiter status if you fail to meet recruiting goals? That would
    be pressure or punishment, IMHO, if you wanted to remain a recruiter...
    LawsonE, May 2, 2005
  8. Doesn't really matter what sort/type of person they recruit. By the time
    they have brainwashed them they start out again with an unused brain!!!
    Noah Fingawtoo, May 2, 2005
  9. La N

    BadBender Guest

    Your right on that. It's the same logic that traffic cops don't have quotas
    but if that traffic cop isn't writing enough tickets then is he really doing
    his job? Potential recruits need to research military service before they go
    to the recruiter the same way people research buying a car or house. The
    recruiter is going to tell you all the good things and maybe some of the
    minor bad things but his overall goal is to get contracts signed. I think a
    fair gauge of the current military mood is to look at the amount of people
    re-enlisting. They already know what it's all about. If they aren't signing
    back up then there is something wrong.
    BadBender, May 2, 2005
  10. One of the credibility problems of the forger is that I've never seen La
    N. post an entire article, with no personal comment. When she does
    refer to articles, it will usually be a short personal comment and then
    a link.
    Howard Berkowitz, May 2, 2005
  11. Chickensh*t is on topic, potentially, in a military group, althout
    batsh*t is preferable. Preferably with a bit of minor chemical
    treatment, quite within farm capabilities, they can provide the oxidizer
    for a low-power IED.
    Howard Berkowitz, May 2, 2005

  12. *sigh* I have mixed feelings. As a sometime fine arts photographer with
    limits on materials and techniques, my reaction to all-digital
    photography is that "if God meant photographers to use charge-coupled
    devices or other semiconductor imaging systems, he wouldn't have
    invented organic dye sensitized silver halide systems coated onto film

    Seriously, thanks for the reminder -- I've tried to trim that group as
    an innocent bystander, but realized I've missed it in a few. I'll try to
    be more careful.
    Howard Berkowitz, May 2, 2005
  13. La N

    La N Guest

    Yup. I tend to immediately delete cut-and-paste articles because
    they are suggestive of a poster who has little by way of original

    - nilita
    La N, May 2, 2005
  14. La N

    asdf Guest

    The Army will make life miserable for any recruiter that does such a hoax.
    Someone is lying there.
    asdf, May 2, 2005
  15. Of course Army re-enlistments are higher than before the Iraq

    "The commander in the field is always right and the
    rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."
    General Colin Powell
    Colin Campbell, May 2, 2005
  16. I don't know about reenlistments, but there seems to be currently a
    shortage of overall enlistments on the US Army:

    Army Having Difficulty Meeting Goals In Recruiting
    Fewer Enlistees Are in Pipeline; Many Being Rushed Into Service

    "The active-duty Army is in danger of failing to meet its recruiting
    goals, and is beginning to suffer from manpower strains like those that
    have dropped the National Guard and Reserves below full strength,
    according to Army figures and interviews with senior officers ."


    ""Very frankly, in a couple of places our recruiting pool is getting
    soft," said Lt. Gen. Franklin L. Hagenbeck, the Army's personnel chief.
    "We're hearing things like, 'Well, let's wait and see how this thing
    settles out in Iraq,' " he said in an interview. "For the active duty for
    '05 it's going to be tough to meet our goal, but I think we can. I think
    the telling year for us is going to be '06."

    Other senior military officers have voiced similar concerns in recent
    days. "I anticipate that fiscal year '05 will be very challenging for both
    active and reserve component recruiting," Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman
    of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a House Appropriations subcommittee
    Feb. 17. The Marine Corps fell short of its monthly recruiting quota in
    January for the first time in nearly a decade."
    Paulo Gomes Jardim, May 2, 2005
  17. La N

    ASAAR Guest

    And gets caught.

    Well sure, but it wasn't Brodeur.
    No lies were apparent in his prepared script. That two of his
    recruiters would be so careless and unobservant as to allow
    themselves to be caught on tape was indeed unacceptable.
    ASAAR, May 2, 2005
  18. La N

    Ron Hunter Guest

    I am sure that if you consistently fell below quota, and others in your
    area didn't, then you could expect a reassignment, but that is the way
    the military works. People seldom remain in recruitment for a whole
    career. I have a nephew who supervises recruiters for the Air Force,
    along the northern west coast. He was in supply only a few years ago,
    and may be doing work in some other place in another year or two. The
    military puts people where their talents, and skills are best utilized.
    Ron Hunter, May 2, 2005
  19. La N

    Ron Hunter Guest

    We aren't talking about Marines here.
    Ron Hunter, May 2, 2005
  20. La N

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Sure there is. Some people are getting their asses shot off! Some
    people aren't prepared for that 'slight' disadvantage. We have raised a
    generation of wimps, and people without a sense of duty. It will get
    worse. Fortunately, there are still people who believe in freedom, and
    realize that its price is blood, and who are still willing to pay that
    Ron Hunter, May 2, 2005
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