Are BootCamps Brain Dumps?

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by ., Nov 11, 2004.

  1. .

    . Guest

    Hi All, I'm thinking of taking a boot camp type course to get myself
    MCSE qualified asap. What I'm after here is opinions as to it being
    worth me shelling out 3k + on one of these courses. Here's a bit of
    background to base your reply on:-
    I've been tinkering with PC's and servers since the mid 90's and gained
    an MCP in NT 4 workstation and server in August 99. I never got anywhere
    in the job market at that time due to (I believe) lack of commercial
    experience and a flood of I.T newbies taken on then fired to help
    companies prepare for Y2K. Anyway, I finally got my first real break by
    getting a contract in 2002 as a system administrator / helpdesk engineer
    in an NT 4 enviroment that ended September just gone. I was a project
    manager during the upgrade of that network to W2K3 as well. During that
    time I learnt a hell of a lot but mainly based around what the company
    needed as and when. As a result my MCP is dead in the water and I'm
    considered too old for a junior type role (33) that will provide me with
    a more correct training that learn as required aproach I've had up til
    now.. My experience (on CV) is getting me interviews but because of my
    knowledge gaps I find it hard to get through higher level job
    interviews. After a month and a half of looking for work through
    agencies I'm seriously considering a boot camp to fill in my gaps and
    gain the letters after my name that may get me the next higher level job
    I apply for but I don't want to invest it if they are just brain dumps.
    Whats your opinion?
     
    ., Nov 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. .

    T-Bone Guest

    Probably not. Certification will get your resume past the HR bots for entry
    level positions. Any position above that should consider experience over
    certification.
    A boot camp will not fill the knowledge gaps. The purpose of a boot camp is
    to teach you what you need to know to get certified. When it comes to
    real-world knowledge, you wouldn't be much better off. If you are going to
    spend money on courses, you would be better off to take some specific
    courses on the stuff you are missing. Alternatively, take that course money,
    buy a couple of PCs and build a home network to practice yourself.

    T-Bone
    MCNGP XL
     
    T-Bone, Nov 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. .

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    agree with the below. also want to add.

    just whatever you do - DON"T CHEAT! you are paying real $$$ to go to the
    boot camp (if that's what you really want to do :-( )

    get as much and learn as much from it as you can. you will need it. and
    remember - if you manage to get by the HR bots and HR screeners - you will
    get interviewed by a *real* experienced senior systems guy who will look
    for signs of cheating and foul play.

    you are much better off just getting an MCP and angling for on the job
    experience with it. unfortunatly, if HR bots & screeners are looking for
    "MCSE" you will have to lie and try to convince them to hire you at the
    interview.

    decisions.. decisions...

    ry

    --
    Rowdy Yates, MCNGP #39
    http://www.mcngp.com/
    - - -
    "Shhhh... Do you smell that? I think is't Albanian Goat Smegma!"
    http://www.geocities.com/rowdy_yates_mcngp/
    http://www.geocities.com/rowdy_yates_mcngp/google.gif
    - - -
    btw - my certs are: MCSE, CISSP, Security+, Linux+
    currently studying for PMP
    one day hope to get CCIE
     
    Rowdy Yates, Nov 11, 2004
    #3
  4. .

    SomeGuy Guest

    Thats just it, I don't want to cheat and I don't want to waste money.
    I have 2 Servers and 2 desktops + a laptop here so I'm all set for a
    test lab. I've already built the servers as W2K3, 1 as a DC with DNS,
    WINS & DHCP + Exchange 2003 thats all configured emailing away. The
    other is an old Dell Pentium Pro180 that barely meets the minimum specs
    that i'm currently building as a RIS server for practicing deployments.
    I've brought the MCSE Self paced training KIT core bundle and also got
    the MS training kits for 270, 284 and 297 (wont be touching those last 2
    for a while).
    I've also invested in the trancsender test Q's for 270 and after reading
    the 270 book I found I'm still only getting 65% on exam A? Admittedly
    I've only gone through the book once and caught myself skim reading at
    stages so I'll read it again but i'm sure the book doesn't cover things
    deep enough to be able to pass in transcenders exams.

    Does the exam cram book for 270 provide a more in depth cover of the
    exam topics? or would that be the equivalent of braindumping???
     
    SomeGuy, Nov 11, 2004
    #4
  5. I disagree with T-Bone and Rowdy here :) "Boot Camps" should be (and our
    company teaches this way) and means of updating your skills to the new OS,
    learning the differences between what you know and what is new. True, most
    bootcamps are designed to get you through the exams, but the problem with
    self study is the lack of time.

    Coming home after a days work and then trying to concentrate on learning is
    very hard, especially if you're a family man. On the other hand, being in a
    classroom environment gives you the opportunity to interact with others,
    learn different points of view and use the training centre's pc's.

    You're in a structured learning environment, using Microsoft Official
    Curriculum (MOC) and hopefully an experienced Microsoft Certified Trainer
    (MCT) teaching you.

    Check out the Learning Centre, ask to see the transcipt of the MCT (yes, you
    can ask this) and make sure you'll be using MOC and will get assistance
    after the Boot Camp to help prepare for the exams.

    Wayne McGlinn
    Brisbane, Oz
     
    Wayne McGlinn, Nov 11, 2004
    #5
  6. .

    Guest Guest

    Botton Line.. Experience will win over Certs. Certs are used to prove
    Experience.. when you get hired and are asked to prepare an SQL server or
    setup an exchange server or implement trusts between two different domains
    and you just sit there not even knowing what menu or button to press.. you
    will get fired.. hands down
     
    Guest, Nov 11, 2004
    #6
  7. .

    Beoweolf Guest

    First, are you sure you want to invest more time and money into IT in the
    first place. As your own experience has shown, lay offs, out sourcing, wage
    depression...etc are very prevalent in the IT industry at this time (a
    probably the foreseeable future). If you have the funds, this would be a
    good time to tighten the belt and make a change. I would suggest getting a
    degree (BS or even an AS would be a good thing to do) in Computer technology
    would be much better than certification. I realize that wasn't listed as an
    option, but the market is fairly well saturated with full time positions
    being few and far between...consultancy is an option, but comes with its own
    set of problems...collection, competency, marketing, etc.

    At this point, a deep look into the reality of the next 5 years might be a
    good thing for a thinking man to undertake.

    Back to the original Question...personally, I would not suggest Boot camps,
    unless they are provided by the employer. If you still think its a good
    idea, at least try to work with tem on the price and investigate what is
    really being provided for the money. Its a consumers market, you have the
    money they want it...make sure it is earned.
     
    Beoweolf, Nov 12, 2004
    #7
  8. .

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    i am gonna disagree with wayne. i hate the classroom environment thats
    filled with IT guys working in the field.

    there is usually too much talking and off topic discussions and the
    ocassional "dick waving" by new guys to the field.

    i have done a few certs by different vendors. for ppl who do this stuff
    day in day out - it's not brain surgery. the exams are not that hard and
    not designed for you to fail. (except comtia's old sec+!).

    as always. the real challenge comes in trying to implement this stuff in
    *real world*. and if you are trying to get it working with legacy or
    disparate systems - you are in for some long nights.

    ry



    --
    Rowdy Yates, MCNGP #39
    http://www.mcngp.com/
    "Shhhh... Do you smell that? I think is't Albanian Goat Smegma!"
    http://www.geocities.com/rowdy_yates_mcngp/
    http://www.geocities.com/rowdy_yates_mcngp/google.gif
     
    Rowdy Yates, Nov 12, 2004
    #8
  9. .

    Neil Guest

    I have never attended or taught at a Boot Camp, but would never consider
    them for certification (Sorry Wayne). As a method of bringing previous
    skill sets up to current knowledge, they probably serve there purpose. I
    will agree that the trainer will make all the difference and that you
    should research your training centers. Make sure you see what the pre-
    requisites are and that you meet them.
     
    Neil, Nov 12, 2004
    #9
  10. .

    Neil Guest

    incase you missed it =?Utf-8?B?SHBvd2Vy?=
    effective use of experience will help you attain certs as well...
     
    Neil, Nov 12, 2004
    #10
  11. .

    SomeGuy Guest

    Thanks for the opinions guys. I think i'll stay away from boot camps
    after all. I'm sure a perspective employer would rather know any cert's
    were gained through self study than crash courses for exactly the
    reasons stated in this thread. Thanks for the replies.
     
    SomeGuy, Nov 12, 2004
    #11
  12. .

    nerd32768 Guest

    certs are always good when you aren't legally old enough to get a regular
    job
     
    nerd32768, Nov 12, 2004
    #12
  13. .

    kpg Guest

    Damn Rowdy, what the hell kind of 'bootcamp' did you sign up for?

    kpg
     
    kpg, Nov 12, 2004
    #13
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