Archival inksets for inkjet printers.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Conway Yee, Dec 27, 2003.

  1. I hate to interrupt this gentlemanly discussion, but do we not have
    documents written with ink on paper that are over 200 years old?
    Usually, the fistt to go is the paper, which turns into cornflakes.

    I placed a color photo in a local store window in a frame without glass.
    This window faced the afternoon sun. It was there for a year without
    fading or changing color. This photo was printed on Epson's Archival
    Matte by a 2000P printer soon after it came out. This paper does have a
    protective coating. The same printer working on Kodak Semi-Gloss Photo
    paper of the time produced very different colors to begin with, so the
    coating must have had something to do with the printing process. The
    same picture that I displayed in that window has been hanging on my wall
    for several years (when did the 2000P come out?) without fading.

    When someone makes a claim, as did Epson, about a product, I do not
    reject it offhand because I have a theory about crooked experts. I give
    it the best try I can if I think I would like to use the product.
     
    Patrick Gainer, Jan 26, 2004
    #81
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  2. It is the ink that eats through the paper. The inside of all the loops
    fall out.

    The standard permanent ink of the period was an iron pyrogallol, a familiar
    chemical to the darkroom crowd.

    Pliny II, in 29 AD, reported an experiment where papyrus soaked in gallic acid
    turned black when dipped in a solution of iron salts. He noted that the use
    of gallic acid in making colorants was already an old practice.

    The idea to use pyrgallol as a developer came from the knowledge of its
    action on iron salts. Normally Oak litter wouldn't come to mind if one
    was looking for the first developing agent.

    Again: the permanent pigments are metallic. Some do have a few drawbacks,
    though...

    Organic dyes are also capable of destroying the substrate. The aniline
    dye used for dying Victorian era womans' silk dresses a deep purple-black
    has turned the fabric of nearly every last one to fine dust.

    Ref:

    http://www.knaw.nl/ecpa/ink/html/ink.html & others.

    Great site.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jan 26, 2004
    #82
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  3. Conway Yee

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Tony Spadaro, Jan 26, 2004
    #83
  4. Conway Yee

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Typically when you cannot defend your arguments (baseless assertions you cannot
    prove...) you resort to insult and sputtering nonsense.
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 26, 2004
    #84
  5. Conway Yee

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Tony Spadaro, Jan 26, 2004
    #85
  6. Conway Yee

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Tony Spadaro, Jan 26, 2004
    #86
  7. Conway Yee

    Tom Guest


    While a top posting moron like yourself cannot trim a hundred lines of
    drivel just to get your insult across.

    Tom
     
    Tom, Jan 26, 2004
    #87
  8. Conway Yee

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Tony Spadaro sputtered once again:
    The hue and saturation of my "old" prints are brighter than your (yawn...)
    boring, witless retorts and assertions. At least I can actually measure them
    with a densitometer; your lack of comprehension appears too dense even for an
    MRI.

    Fading is *relative*. As I pointed out, even the sun is going to fade at some
    point. The issue here, if you'd read the thread, is that inkjets aren't
    "archival," or only theoretically so, for various reasons including the
    application of the pigments, the sparseness of the sprayed pigment layer which
    makes inkjets exceptionally sensitive to whatever oxidation does occur, the
    fact that there is no binder, the fact that in their short existence they are
    *known* to fade rapidly, etc. etc. Not to mention that you are so ignorant as
    to not know that dye layer fading in photographic materials can in fact be
    arrested by proper storage, contrary to your clueless assertion that "nothing
    will actually stop the fading process."

    The reality is color photographs of many different types (carbon, dye transfer,
    dye destruction, etc. etc., beyond your so called "common" prints) have been
    around for decades and some as long as 140 years. They're in good condition.
    "Common" chromogenic prints certainly have a life far exceeding your baseless
    assertion of only "20 years." Color photographic processes thus have a proven
    track record. Inkjets don't, plus, they are not "photographs." They are ink
    reproductions. Now, go rest your butt on your bubble jet before you strain your
    keen mind by having to come up with yet another earth shattering reply that
    leaves everyone in awe of your less than grand command of the english language.
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 27, 2004
    #88
  9. Conway Yee

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Tony Spadaro, Jan 27, 2004
    #89
  10. Conway Yee

    B.Rumary Guest

    The crumbling of paper is something that happened with the widespread
    introduction of paper made from wood pulp in the 19th century. Some of
    the chemicals used to reduce the paper to mush for paper-making were
    acidic and have slowly rotted the paper fibres. This is proving a great
    problem to big libraries with stocks of old books that are rapidly
    falling to pieces! They have had to spend huge amounts of money on
    chemical treatments to stop the rot.

    Much older books used paper made from linen rags and this paper is
    _much_ more stable. Books printed 400-500 years ago are still OK,
    provided that they are kept away from the damp conditions that promote
    mold and fungus attacks.

    Brian Rumary, England

    http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
     
    B.Rumary, Feb 10, 2004
    #90
  11. Conway Yee

    B.Rumary Guest

    I imagine this was because the Agfacolour and Kodachrome slide films
    went on the market in the mid-1930s, and I suspect they were much
    cheaper and easier to use than Autochrome.

    Brian Rumary, England

    http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
     
    B.Rumary, Feb 10, 2004
    #91
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