Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Joe, Mar 5, 2006.

  1. Joe

    Joe Guest

    I have been looking for info on apple computers but newsgroups about them
    seem lacking. I am a windows user but looking for a new computer and
    considering an apple. Anyone have any pros and cons about this move.
    Joe, Mar 5, 2006
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  2. Joe

    Spuds Guest

    Why would you restrict yourself to a proprietary hardware system and shut
    yourself out of about 90% of all available native software?
    Spuds, Mar 5, 2006
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  3. Joe

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Spuds spewed forth:
    Why not? The system is complete, upgrades are available if wanted, there is
    nothing significant /missing/ in the software market - just less contenders.
    For instance, no, you can't run Winamp. Big deal. There is Mac software to
    play music. That applies to all major computing functions. For the average
    user, doing typical home or office tasks, the Mac platform is excellent.
    Toolman Tim, Mar 5, 2006
  4. Joe

    Spuds Guest

    The "less contenders" caveat is an important one, at least to me. There's
    simply and inarguably more available for the PC platform. Lots of esoteric
    and oddball stuff that there's no dearth of for the PC. For instance, I've
    got a half dozen freeware maze generators for printing out puzzles for my
    kids. Try and find 'em for the Apple. If all you're doing are home office
    tasks, the sure, the Apple will suffice, but why buy one?

    Secondly is the proprietary hardware angle. Not sure if it's still the same,
    but it used to be that you were tied to an Apple Authorized repair location to
    get service. When I had my Apple //c, the monitor went tits-up. My friend in
    the business said it was a reasonably easy repair - a flyback transformer. He
    sourced it, but could not buy it as it was restricted to Apple dealers, and at
    that, the price bordered on the insane. So repairs cost me more than double
    what I could've gotten a PC monochrome monitor fixed for.

    You have a problem with a PC? Everybody seems to have a friend that knows
    PCs, and that's willing to help you sort it out. Not nearly the case with the
    Apple. Looking for a cheap deal on a wireless keyboard and mouse at Best
    Buy? Good luck if you've got an Apple. Ditto the software side. Any
    software I've seen on sale at the big chains is invariably for the PC
    platform. Good luck finding local deals on Apple wares.

    The Windows platform in recent years has closed the usability gap with Apple,
    so the vaunted easy-to-use Apple GUI advantage has all but disappeared. To
    me, there's simply no compelling reason to buy an Apple.
    Spuds, Mar 5, 2006
  5. Joe

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Spuds spewed forth:
    But for MOST users, who needs those? Mainline software is not an issue,
    regardless of your more esoteric and oddball tastes.

    That was WAY back in the dark ages.
    Maybe YOU have a problem where you are, but our little town has a nice shop
    that does Mac and PC wares both - and at reasonable prices.

    Stability? Reliability? Security? Hell, I'm a Windows user too, but I see
    the advantages of alternate systems.
    Toolman Tim, Mar 5, 2006
  6. Joe

    Joe Guest


    remove BBB YYY
    I have heard that apple system are less susceptabile to virus and spam than
    windows systems.
    Joe, Mar 5, 2006
  7. Joe

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Joe spewed forth:
    That's quite true about the virus problem, and one of the strong points.
    Spam however can be emailed to anyone. If you meant "malware" (spyware,
    adware, trojans) then yes, the Mac is a safer platform. I haven't switched
    to Macs because I can deal safely with a Windows box. But if the software
    you wish to use is available, the Mac is a good choice. That's the only real
    issue I've run into: the CAD program I use doesn't have a Mac release. And
    quite frankly, I'm not willing to learn a different CAD program ;)
    Toolman Tim, Mar 5, 2006
  8. Joe

    Margolotta Guest

    *FEWER*, not 'less'. Less is only applicable when the object in question
    cannot be quantified 'less water',. If you can count something, then it's
    fewer, if you can't, it's less.

    You really *are* an ignoramus, aren't you? So, Macs are only useful for
    typing the odd document or light browsing, eh? May I remind you that, as well
    as being Apple's CEO, Steve Jobs is/was CEO of Pixar? And I can tell you that
    all Pixar movies were created on Macs. Walk into any serious design house and
    I can guarantee that the machines in use will be Macs, not PCs. Power Macs
    (the Apple desktop system) are much more powerful than PCs. The last G5
    system, before Apple went Intel, had *four* CPUs. Still waiting to see a PC
    like that.

    And all this bollocks about 'proprietary hardware'. The RAM in my Mac is
    standard, the soundcard in my Mac is standard, the hard drives in my Mac are
    standard (one even came from my Windows box). They are fully upgradeable (I
    have 5GB of RAM in mine - most of that came from Crucial). I can use all the
    same applications and peripherals I was using under Windows (and those that
    don't run directly, run acceptably under VPC).

    Get your facts straight before you start belittling Macs...
    Margolotta, Mar 6, 2006
  9. Joe

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Margolotta spewed forth:
    I wasn't belittling anything. In fact, just the opposite. Go back and read
    the whole thread. And thanks for the grammar lesson. It only shows you have
    nothing better to do than nitpick.
    Toolman Tim, Mar 6, 2006
  10. Joe

    Margolotta Guest

    First off, Apple is the *COMPANY* not the machine. And I like a challenge. So
    I looked.

    MazeAvenger and Amazeing were two I found within 30 seconds of searching.

    If all you're doing are home office
    <SIGH> here we go again. I see you're another ignoramus. As I have just said
    to Tim, as well as being CEO of Apple, Steve Jobs is also CEO of Pixar. Want
    to know what Toy Story, Shark Tale and Robots have in common? That's right,
    they were all created on Power Macs, much like the one I'm using now. And
    walk into any serious design house and you won't find a PC - they'll all be
    using Macs, I guarantee it. Graham Barlow, who used to be the Reviews Editor
    for PC Format here in the UK rarely used a PC. He did all his work on an
    iMac. Then the Editor found out, and he was kicked out as a dissenter and he
    now holds a similar position on the staff at Mac Format.

    I have two licences for Adobe's CS2, one Windows, one Mac. The Windows
    licence is currently on eBay because I never use it. Photoshop is a *much*
    more pleasant experience on a Mac.

    That's the problem with those who are wedded to Windows, they're so blinkered
    they refuse to believe that anything else might, just might, be superior.

    Another complete load of bollocks. One of the hard drives in my Mac came from
    my PC, the RAM is totally standard (came from Crucial) the sound card is
    either/or and the flat panel is currently hooked up to both.

    Not sure if it's still the same,
    And you could have hooked it up, I'm sure. There is no such thing as a 'PC
    monitor' or an "Apple monitor', a monitor is a monitor.

    Bollocks. I subscribe to a newsgroup of must be at least 100 regular posters
    and anyone is prepared to assist anyone else. There are plenty of Mac User
    Groups (MUGs) up and down the country. There is a real community thing about
    Apple computers, I've never heard anyone get all nostalgic and misty-eyed
    over a PC.

    Looking for a cheap deal on a wireless keyboard and mouse at Best
    I wouldn't know about the US but, over here in the UK, even ** World sells
    Mac software.

    Were you born this stupid, or have you had to work at it? OS X is *FAR* more
    user-friendly that XP will *EVER* be. And we in the Mac community just look
    at Vista and laugh pathetically. We've begun taking bets on what MS will
    plagiarise next. Even Google are at it. Apple innovates, the rest imitate.


    Really? Funny you should say that, let me give you my top 10 (in no
    particular order)

    1) Ease of set-up. The Mac has true plug-'n'-play connectivity that would be
    a Windows user's wet dream. I laugh when I read about a user's problems
    setting up their router/internet connection/LAN. On a Mac all you do is plug
    in the cable.

    2) Drivers not necessary. I have not needed to download drivers for any of my
    peripherals/cards. Everything worked as soon as I plugged it in.

    3) Spyware and virus free. Okay, there are rumours of a couple of threats,
    but nothing to warrant a Mac user to scan their system every morning like I
    was having to do with Windows. Unix is *FAR* more secure and difficult to
    hack that most casual perps don't even bother. Why would they, when Windows
    has such gaping holes?

    4) No need to defragment every week. The OS X is much better at keeping its
    house in order. I run a defragmentation process on my system about once every
    three months.

    5) No BSODs. Okay, the Mac does have something called a Kernel Panic Error,
    but I've only seen a couple in 8 months of having this system. I used to
    receive at least four BSODs a fortnight.

    6) Do not overheat. When I opened my Mac to fit extra RAM, I was amazed at
    how neat it was; no masses of cables, no screws, nothing to impede the
    airflow. I don't think I've ever heard of a Mac locking up because it got too

    7) No registry.

    8) Ease of installation/uninstallation. Want to know how to install 90% of
    Macintosh applications? Simple. You drag the icon from the installation media
    to the Applications folder. Want to uninstall? Simply drag the icon from the
    Applications folder to the Trash. The only other thing you might need to do
    is check the Library folder for a plist file and trash that too. That's it,
    it's gone. How many times have you heard of someone coming to serious grief
    because they've attempted to uninstall an application under Windows in a
    similar fashion?

    9) Safari - it's what IE dreams of being and will never be.

    10) TextEdit - it's Notepad's wet dream. It's a fully fledged word processor;
    spell check, tabulation, sub/superscript, millions of colours, full font
    support - I've not used Word at all (I only have it on here because my
    parents use it). TextEdit performs every basic word processing task I need.

    Oh and you're not limited to the Apple provided keyboard/mouse. I use a
    Logitech MX510 (which is fully supported), but I still use the Apple
    keyboard, because you cannot map a Windows board easily (though there are
    tools to do it) and I like the feel of it.

    I could give you another dozen or so, but I'm bored of you now...
    Margolotta, Mar 6, 2006
  11. Joe

    Rich Wilson Guest

    If you're going to criticise then at least punctuate your criticism so it
    makes sense!
    And put your running shoes on too - these Mac enthusiasts seem to take it a
    bit too seriously.
    Rich Wilson, Mar 6, 2006
  12. Joe

    Rich Wilson Guest

    Agreed. But that's entirely because Photoshop on the PC is just a very badly
    ported Mac program. Instead, compare Photoshop on the Mac with Paintshop Pro
    on the PC (bearing in mind the difference in price).
    I've yet to find a Windows user who's as "wedded" to Windows as you appear
    to be to your Mac.
    Rich Wilson, Mar 6, 2006
  13. Joe

    Rich Wilson Guest

    But they look nice...
    Rich Wilson, Mar 6, 2006
  14. Joe

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Rich Wilson spewed forth:
    Almost as serious as the Penguin Pushers. What ticked me off is that M
    ripped into me for a grammar error and failure to tout the higher end uses
    of the Mac. Sure, I know what Macs are used for. But I'd bet most Macs (and
    other computers for that matter) are used for the typical desktop apps,
    which is why I only mentioned those. I have the highest regard for Macs. In
    fact, I'm pretty stinkin' impressed by the Mac down at the office where I
    have my printing done. Excellent system - it runs Adobe Creative Suite way
    better than my PC.
    Toolman Tim, Mar 6, 2006
  15. Joe

    Margolotta Guest

    No it isn't. It was compiled by a completely separate team. You cannot port
    software written for a Unix-based system to Windows, or vice versa.

    Instead, compare Photoshop on the Mac with Paintshop Pro
    As Photoshop Elements is available for both formats, that argument is
    completely irrelevant.

    Then you've not looked very hard. I've never met a Windows user that /wasn't/
    disparaging about Macs.
    Margolotta, Mar 6, 2006
  16. Joe

    Rich Wilson Guest

    As I said in another post, don't compare Adobe software between Macs and
    PCs. As far as I can tell, they write the software on the Mac first and they
    aren't very good at porting it to the PC.
    I've never really had chance to try out a Mac properly so I can't really
    comment on whether the hardware's any good or not, but as a designer I have
    to get a bit of satisfaction from the way that Apple's product design has
    been a large part of the success of the iMac and iPod. I meet far too many
    people who think that good design is something you add on at the end if you
    can afford it.
    Rich Wilson, Mar 6, 2006
  17. Joe

    Margolotta Guest

    Er, no, Timothy, what you *actually* said was (and I quote)

    " For the average user, doing typical home or office tasks, the Mac platform
    is excellent."

    This translates as "Macs are fine for basic stuff, but don't expect them to
    do anything high-end. You'll be needing a PC for that."
    Margolotta, Mar 6, 2006
  18. Joe

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Margolotta spewed forth:
    Nope. That "translates" to what you think only because you chose for it to.
    You can read into it whatever you want. I was replying to what appeared to
    be a typical user with general computer tasks to accomplish, and the Mac
    platform is excellent for that. It is also excellent for many high-end
    custom tasks. Just because I didn't include a list of all uses of a Mac
    doesn't present any disparaging comments, unless the /reader/ chooses to be

    Get the chip off your shoulder.
    Toolman Tim, Mar 6, 2006
  19. Joe

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Rich Wilson spewed forth:
    Design is nice. If you're paying for good equipment, it should look good
    too. The company I work for makes decorative products for expensive housing.
    It's a design element. If you are going to build a very nice home the design
    should indicate that it's a very nice home.
    Toolman Tim, Mar 6, 2006
  20. Joe

    Rich Wilson Guest

    Compiled by a different team, maybe, but did they think about redesigning it
    to work properly with Windows? I don't think so. The user interface is all
    non-standard and I still can't work out the reason for the unnecessary extra
    virtual memory system that seems to cripple its performance.

    No it isn't. Assuming Photoshop was designed around the Mac operating
    system, to do a fair comparison you need to find a similarly-featured
    application designed around the Windows operating system and adhering to its
    standards. Paint Shop Pro fits that description. Photoshop doesn't.

    I've never met a Windows user who wasn't disparaging about Windows too...
    Rich Wilson, Mar 6, 2006
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