Apple. Is it true that no one can stand their latest op-sys?

Huh! That logic has a small hole.

 

i told you where to find the proof.

not my problem if you refuse to look at it.

it's also common knowledge to anyone who follows the industry.

 

they were.

i didn't and i'm not.

you're so confused you don't know what you're saying.

 

look again. the top *three* cameras at flickr are iphones, ahead of two
canon slrs.

canon has the most number of models but that is something else entirely.

completely irrelevant.

 

basically, and it used the retrace of the display to figure out where
you were touching.

however, it was not a command line.

 

It's not my problem when you post bullshit.

 

Yep. You want to change the meaning of words to affect your idiotic
statements. You deny the true meaning of what you say.
Sheesh, what an A-hole you are.

 

nothing bullshit about it.

 

not at all.

it was not an intentional pick. there was a lot of discussion about
apple and i said apple where i should have said steve jobs and didn't
catch it.

you're making it into something *far* bigger than it is.

a simple 'you must have meant steve jobs, not apple' would have
sufficed.

like i said, if that's the biggest mistake i made, i'm doing just fine.

 

Oh!

 

if you think it's bullshit, by al means cite evidence that shows it to
be false.

you won't, because you *can't*. no such evidence exists. you're full of
shit.

what i said is exactly correct, and i told you where to find the proof
if you don't believe it.

 

it was a typo, but i used the wrong word instead of the wrong letter.

people sometimes say photopaint or paintshop instead of photoshop. i
think you've done it more than once.

it happens. it's not a big deal. almost everyone realizes it's a simple
mistake.

they are synonymous. apple wouldn't be apple without steve jobs.

only because you are making a big deal out of it.

i did admit the mistake the moment you pointed it out.

i also said it's very minor, and it is.

you are dragging it out.

 

Pzrove the affirmative.

 

| it's a term coined by windows users because windows runs on intel and
| very few intel systems run anything but windows.
|
| it's *very* rare one exists without the other.

What about all those Apple computers, not to
mention Linux. Now that Macs have Intel CPUs, I
no longer hear about how an IBM 300 mhz is twice
as fast as an Intel 1200 mhz, because the cache
makes all the difference, dontchaknow. Remember
those snail ads that AppleSeeds loved so much,
back around 2000?

I've never heard a Windows user refer to "Wintel".
It doesn't make any sense. (I haven't had an Intel
CPU for a decade or more. They're like the Apple of
the chip world. AMD arguably does better, and
definitely does much cheaper, but Intel manages
to maintain boutique pricing through marketing and
brand familiarity.)

| one way they forced it down everyone's throat was by making it
| economically unfeasible for clone makers to offer anything *but*
| windows.
|

This is an example of the skewed view you get
from Apple propaganda. First, there's no such thing
as a Windows "clone" because there's no such thing
as an official Windows PC. There are major company
PCs (Dell, Acer, etc.) and there are so-called white
box PCs. They're the same thing. Both are just cases
with an assemblage of standardized parts, onto which
Windows, Linux, etc. can be installed. The "OEM"
company puts their logo on the box, and in rare cases
might use some custom hardware. (Dell is a problem
that way.) But in general an OEM box is exactly the
same as hand built. (I build the PCs for myself and friends.
It's not very hard, and most of the parts are swappable.)

White box makers thrived for years, at the peak of the
Windows monopoly. It was common for small companies
to order through them. What killed them off was falling
prices. Back when a PC was $1,500-$2,000 it made sense
to build PCs as a business. Now I can buy a PC on sale
for under $300. A white box maker probably can't even
buy the parts for that price. Even the parts apparently have
little profit margin these days. I have to buy online. Aside
from Microcenter (where I won't shop because they once
refused to accept a return on a faulty part, and they're
essentially a low-end discount store) there's just no place
local to buy motherboards, expansion cards and CPUs.

What Microsoft did do was to pressure white box makers
to install Windows on all PCs, claiming that to do otherwise
constituted "aiding piracy". They complained about "naked PCs".
It was a strongarm threat, which was all the more brazen
given that MS was also selling Windows install disks, and
their Pro version can be installed on any number of PCs, as
long as it's one at a time. But that had nothing to do with
the death of white box makers. It just incensed the small
number of people who wanted to install Linux, or who had
a legal Windows CD already.

Again I would remind you that I'm happy, even delighted,
to list the various evils of Microsoft. I'm not a Windows groupie.
That's what I've been trying to explain. Windows users generally
don't worship Microsoft and buy a new PC every time Bill Gates
tells us to. I just like the flexibility of the product, I know it very
well, and I don't see any suitable alternatives for now. I'd be
happy if I can stay on XP for the next decade. I don't like wasting
a lot of time having to learn new things for no good reason.

| a mac user can run *any* third party software they want and install a
| wide variety of third party hardware.
|
I love that argument: "What? I can run Windows on my
overpriced Mac, if I just buy an overpriced Pro version
Windows disk and accept that Apple won't let me boot
it directly."
Half the people I know using Macs are running Windows
on it because they need Windows software....while they
complain about what junk Windows is. ...I guess that's
fine if your mother is willing to pay for it all.

Apropos of that, did you see the new Mac Pro review in the
NYT today? They have a new reviewer. (Good riddance to
David Pogue. He always seemed like a corporate shill to
me.) The new machine is $8,000, looks like a toy fire hydrant
or coffee grinder perched on a lamp stand, and has no
expandability. ...You'd better start telling your mother how
good her cooking is.

 

powerpc chips of that era were definitely faster and had a far better
architecture than intel chips of time. there are *plenty* of
comparisons, both benchmark and real world, that show this.

also, when apple announced the intel transition, intel macs were often
called macintel.

just because you never heard it used doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

it makes perfect sense. a windows system running on intel is wintel and
many windows users refer to it as that. it's not an insult.

trying to make it into something it's not just shows how much you want
to bash.

nonsense.

amd is not better at all. in fact, they're worse.

some amd chips might be faster in specs, but specs aren't everything.
they are not as power efficient, which is a *huge* drawback, especially
in a laptop.

apple could never have gone with amd because amd's road map was not
where apple wanted to go and amd couldn't manufacture anywhere near the
volume of chips apple needed.

it's not apple propaganda whatsoever.

you say below that you are delighted to list the evils of microsoft,
yet when someone else does exactly that, you say their view is due to
apple propaganda. can't have it both ways.

microsoft's predatory business practices and monopoly abuse are well
known and what spawned numerous lawsuits.

no such thing as a clone? you're delusional.

in other words, a clone.

first you say no such thing as a clone then you say there are. call it
whatever you want. it's a clone.

it's not exactly the same as a hand built because a clone comes bundled
with an os, including crapware which subsidizes part of its price, and
a warranty. you don't get any of that with a home built system
(although the lack of crapware is a plus). also, swappable parts is
meaningless. it doesn't make the computer faster or better.

the key is that the dells, acers and other clone makers of the world
couldn't bundle something other than windows without paying a higher
windows license for *every* system they built, whether or not it even
shipped with windows.

that made it not competitive to offer an alternative, so they didn't
(with rare exception). it's part of what got microsoft in trouble.

microsoft pulled similar shit with numerous school systems by demanding
a windows license for every computer that *could* run windows,
including all macs and linux systems. it didn't matter whether or not
they actually were running windows.

that's why apple doesn't bother with $300 macs. it's not worth the
effort. their $300 computer is an ipad and is more capable than what
sat on people's desks 10 years ago and it's selling so well that pc
makers are blaming their earnings shortfalls on it.

you want low prices but won't shop in a store that is what you call a
discount store??

i'm sure there was a lot more to your story about the faulty part.

i've returned stuff to microcenter that *wasn't* faulty and they had no
problem taking it back. they have a very reasonable return policy, and
the line to return stuff is always long (at least every time i've been
there). you don't even need to return all of the parts for them to take
it back.

the returned products often go on a shelf for people to buy at a
discount because they've been opened and may not have all the parts.
they used to have several tables of that stuff but they've scaled it
back. there are definitely deals to be had there.

exactly what i said they did!

they can claim whatever they want. the problem is that tactic is part
of why windows became as big as it was and part of why microsoft was
sued for monopoly abuse.

who said it did?

the reason clone makers are having trouble is because people aren't
buying as many computers anymore. what they have now is more powerful
than they need and mobile devices are handling most of their day to day
tasks.

it's a post-pc era. mobile is the future.

and it also incensed the clone makers who wanted to offer alternatives
to customers who were asking for alternatives. they couldn't, at least
not without a penalty.

yet you never do, and whenever anyone else does, it's always because
they are supposedly a fanboi or shill.

despite all the evils you claim you can list, you still use windows and
claim how much better it is than the alternatives.

so when you say you are happy to list all the evils of microsoft, i
call bullshit.

apple users don't do that either and nobody is telling anyone to buy
anything anyway.

where do you come up with this shit? seriously, where?

good luck using windows xp after microsoft ceases support for it in a
few months.

really, good luck. you will need it.

the malware authors are going to have an absolute field day after
microsoft stops supporting xp and ceases all security patches.

you can be sure they have a list of exploits ready to be used, knowing
full well that once they're in the wild they will never be fixed. those
exploits will always exist, forever.

waste what time?

if you know how to use xp you know how to use win7. the differences are
minor, and the advantages are huge.

windows 8 is a bit different but it can be made to look like
traditional windows.

nothing like stagnation.

you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

macs can easily boot windows and they are also competitively priced.
however, it's preferable to virtualize windows since it's a lot less
hassle.

as for windows being overpriced, that part is true. mac os x is free,
previously $20, and windows is much higher, therefore windows can be
considered overpriced, even for the oem version.

they complain that windows is junk because it *is* junk.

they run it because only because they *have* to because of microsoft's
lock-in, not because they *want* to. maybe they work for a company that
requires some custom windows software. or maybe they just don't want to
take the time to learn something new.

it also means that half of the people you know who have macs *aren't*
running windows on it.

and what does anyone's mother have to do with anything?

you consider anyone that says something you disagree with to be a shill
or a fanboi.

pogue is a very good tech journalist, extremely talented (he was a
broadway music director) and *very* funny. he has made a number of
satirical music videos. he's also not a shill.

molly wood is also a good tech journalist, although i'm more familiar
with her on various podcasts than as a columnist. you'll probably like
her since she frequently criticizes apple, and whenever she criticizes
anything, she does so with passion.

here is molly's rant on sopa:

again with the mother nonsense?

first of all, the mac pro is $3000 for the base model and even that is
way more power than most people need.

the model molly had was *not* a base model. it was an 8 core xeon
processor (not a consumer cpu) with 64 gig memory, 1 terabyte ssd
(*not* cheap) and *two* amd gpus.

$8000 is a very good price for that configuration and you will *not* be
able to match that price without compromising a lot of the specs.

just the cpu *by itself* is around $2000 (i see a faster one listed for
$2300 and a slower one for under $2k). amazon has a 1tb pci-e ssd card
for $3700. using molly's price of $800 per graphics card (it's actually
higher, but let's go with her numbers), you're now at $7300 and you
*still* need to get a logic board (a bare cpu won't do much), 64 gig
memory and a box with a power supply and proper ventilation to put all
of it in along with a copy of windows and assorted bundled software
(not crapware).

when all's said and done, it'll be *more* than $8k and that's ignoring
the time and effort it took to put it all together and get it to work
properly. unless you work for free, that time adds to the price too.

it's also expandable, just not internally. those who buy such systems
are going to hook it up to an external raid or san. most people never
used the slots in the older mac pros, so why offer them when they'll go
unused?

the usual comments are it looks like a trash can or ashtray, and that's
*from* mac users. i've not heard it called a coffee grinder or a fire
hydrant. that's actually a lot more complimentary than a trash can. you
should start using the more condescending names.

it also won't be long until the clone makers copy the design. they
always do.

but what you're missing is that it packs all that power into a tiny
package. it's portable. it can fit in a backpack or carry-on bag. it
weights roughly as much as two macbook pros and it's shorter than an
ipad.

even if you could match its price (and you can't), there's no way in
hell you could do it in the same size enclosure or one that runs as
quiet as it does (12 db @ idle). who wants a big giant noisy box?

it's not for everyone. there are those who need high end workstation
class machines, but most people do not. it's a very specific market
segment who needs that kind of power. most people are well served with
a cheap computer, and even that is way more than they need if all
they're doing is email and web surfing.

 

it was a typo. i meant to say jobs but said apple by mistake. when you
pointed it out i confirmed that it was a mistake.

i'm not the one making a fuss here. you are.

you're going on and on, bringing up legalities of saying apple instead
of jobs, as if i intentionally said that to mislead.

you seem to be under the impression that i intentionally said apple.

no it isn't at all. that's *why* they're synonymous.

nothing erroneous about it.

i meant to say jobs and said apple instead. it was a typo. mistakes
happen. i try to catch them before i post but this time one slipped by.

you know what i meant, as did everyone else. once again, if that's the
biggest mistake you can find, i'm doing just fine.

let it go already.

 

i already did.

if you are going to claim what i said is bullshit, the burden is on you
to prove it's wrong. not me.

if you don't believe the proof i gave, call tim cook's office and ask
his staff, although you will have to wait until next week since apple
is closed this week.

or, if you prefer, wait a few weeks for apple's next earnings call
(mid- to late january), where they will almost certainly mention it
*again*.

but you won't do a thing. you'll just keep on pretending you know
everything.

 

now they do.

back in the 1990s, things were *very* different.

 

so now all your doing is nitpicking about what it's called?

call it whatever you want. you were still able to figure out what was
meant.

he co-founded the company and also brought it back from near bankruptcy.

they are synonymous.

 

of course it matters.

steve jobs and apple are synonymous. bill gates and microsoft are
synonymous. henry ford and ford motor company are synonymous.

it's just how it is.