Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam for re-attack after violent road rage attack?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by dorothy.bradbury, Jul 18, 2003.

  1. Q: Who sells a mini few-second digital *tiny* handheld videocamera?

    o Small, compact, but records enough seconds to record a few seconds of
    attack
    o Held at the parking brake area at the window, easily dropped under the
    seat
    o impossible for an attacker to get, and small enough to be non-obvious
    "Videocamera"

    My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road, or on the street.

    Could do with a car panic system that yells "help, help, I'm being attacked,
    call the police"?
    USA people can wait for the window to go, and use a pepper spray & drive
    (unless blocked :)

    My error was not getting to my "2.99ukp special" camera which I could have
    held pointing
    at the window from the parking brake and got a photo of him & fist hitting
    the window.

    Are those SpyCams video for say 10secs (enough, believe me 10secs can be a
    LONG time).


    I'll share why, since it - and the need - can happen to anyone...

    Picture a normal wet UK day.
    Travelling on cruise-control 40mph down a sliproad from Runcorn-Widnes
    Bridge to
    the 2-lane 40mph Widnes-Clearway leading up past Widnes B&Q & Focus DIY.

    Green/black Golf 16V GTI sped down the sliproad, until 1 foot from me,
    trying to overtake.
    The slip-road drops 150yds down from the bridge-road, goes under the
    bridge-road to
    the Widnes-Clearway for a total of 300yds. He had 100yds to go, the road is
    single-lane
    V-cutting banked by kerbing/armco & suspension-bridge concrete footings.

    This delay of 100yds proved too much: he forced past before the road breaks
    into 2 lanes
    forcing my left front to jump up onto the kerb. I piped the horn twice as I
    corrected the car.

    Cutting me up, he thankfully sped off.
    The Clearway as completely empty, I resumed 40mph & he was some way ahead.
    Only now he started jumping up & down inside the car, and jerking the car
    around.

    Attack #1 of 3 began:
    He repeatedly did partial emergency stops & lane changes, trying to force me
    to hit him.
    Slowing up to below 10mph (stalled out in 5th), he then accelerated hard
    away allowing
    me to recover some separation from traffic (13.5 tonne non-articulated
    truck) behind.

    The Clearway in front was *completely* clear into the distance.
    No-one would overtake me, but they acted like "gravity" keeping me near him.
    Clearway has no breakdown lane, armco shielded kerbs with no turnoff.
    Nowhere to go.

    I dropped to 8mph, he had gotten too far ahead, so suddenly sped off.
    Freedom. Not.

    Attack #2 began:
    100yds on, he suddenly does an emergency stop. I do emergency stop,
    but traffic behind keeps moving (13.5 tonne doesn't stop in wet).

    Same again, his jumping up & down is shaking his car around. His steering is
    frenzied,
    rapid acceleration & deceleration. Myself calm, but terrified, 70+yr old by
    me terrified.

    This time I let the gap close to him and actually stop - because /that/
    gives me a gap
    behind me, so I *can* stop (lorry & traffic can see me stopped & has
    distance to stop).
    With me stopped, he has a choice - reverse to ram me (and I have space to
    reverse,
    with reverse selected & lights lit), or leave. He must reverse to attack. He
    speeds off.

    Rapidly, he is 1/2 mile away, and I crawl at 20mph. What was it all about.
    No-one would pass, I can't stop (Clearway, wet, no breakdown lane).

    Round the corner are traffic lights, a blind corner. They are red.
    The Golf is sat on the left, a "lifted americanised" red 4x4 toyota pickup
    sits by him.

    Attack #3 began:
    At 50-60 car lengths round the blind corner, I see lights red and him.
    I immediately slow sharply - since time is something I need and can create.

    He jumps out of the car, in white rage, screaming, with his door left open,
    races up the road towards me. I lock the brakes, and realise this is it.

    Lock doors all round, hazards on, I floor it in reverse and scream back up
    the road
    but have a 13.5 tonne truck behind me and several cars in the other lane.
    Blocked.

    Stopped, he reaches me. I stay sat looking downwards and make no eye
    contact,
    or noise or anything. You've seen road rage on television, this was worse.
    He
    immediately banged on the window, and then punched at it repeatedly rocking
    the car. Each time I closed my eyes waiting for it to break. Each time it
    held.

    How I don't know, I sit far back partly behind the B-pillar so he was
    hitting the
    top corner which has thick rubber door seals. The window was fully up in its
    frame and seal, so preventing the glass flexing and shattering. Had he aimed
    nearer the middle with clenched fist aimed punches, he'd have been through.

    Arms waving, screaming, raging, he yanked at my door handle. Then moved
    to the rear door handle. Then kicking & punching the car body. He never
    tired,
    he never stopped, he raged at an incredible pace & frenzy. He jumped in the
    air
    kicking the door, then went for the wing mirror stamping on it repeatedly.
    The
    glass shattered first, then the shell was ripped off, then the heated &
    power
    hub snapped downwards, despite his repeated frenzy and screaming.


    His wet shoes, wet road, wet car & rain deflected a lot of the blows,
    thankfully.
    Suddenly, he ran off, got back in his car & sped away.

    I got out to inspect the damage and pick up pieces, and take his licence
    down.
    Every lorry & car sat throughout the attack, just sat stunned.

    Moved on, into B&Q, rang the police. Told to go home & be contacted later.
    Then miraculously, the big lifted red 4x4 found me and offered to be a
    witness.
    I guess he was the only one who could find me, the truck driver said he'd
    call
    the police up the road and block it if the guy came back again.

    Thinking back the same car & driver raged at me in Runcorn.
    We have "red slow-down raised stripe-bars" on the road. I slowed down from
    30mph to 26-27mph & immediately re-accelerated to 30mph because I have to.
    I have massive spinal injuries from a cyst in my spine between L5 & Sacrum,
    degenerative facet-joints, lipping facet-joints, damage to joints & disks,
    and
    nerve compression. Life is painful muscle-spasm or pain. Going over what is
    a rough 'rumble strip' is not comfortable for me, and many other drivers
    too.

    He raged at why I had to slow down, banging his hand down on the outside
    of his car and hurling his car at me. The strips last for about 4ft of road,
    it is
    a quick harsh speed-control measure, a very short speed-drop/re-accelerate.

    So I guess he wanted revenge for that. I don't know what it was all about.
    I remained calm throughout all, but I'm not able to defend myself.


    The police haven't yet contacted me, nor witness(es) as far as I know. They
    were too busy yesterday and today had 2 violent attacks in Runcorn Town.
    So Monday they get my full written statement & are on the look out for him.

    So nothing done as yet, surely licence plate = address on computers.

    I thought I'd share it, because it begs a need - for anyone on the road.
    Not for attacks #1 & #2, but for attacks like #3. Where you need only a
    few seconds video of an attacker, especially had he broken through.


    Truck & 4x4 driver both said they would have got out and torn him apart.
    In the UK the victim can not respond, until proven to be a victim.
    That is not by choice, but by law.

    My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road or in the street.

    The UK police will orbit the planet if no visit by Monday afternoon, I will
    visit them. A heated, motorised, painted door mirror is probably 300+.

    The other device I could do with is a panic alarm, which yells "help, help,
    call police, I am being attacked" at preferably 130dB(A). Someone must do
    one, not an alarm, but one that sounds alarm to either ward-off or get help.


    Spine didn't like that, you tense & brace a lot, which wrenches the area.
    The usual dog of first muscle-spasm, then nerve-pain, then headaches.

    Next Moss Side in the UK is the Drug/Violence shithole of
    Runcorn/Halton/Widnes,
    what used to be fields of corn is now somewhat way off-field of humanity.
     
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 18, 2003
    #1
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  2. dorothy.bradbury

    Maze Guest

    That's terrible - I hope you're ok.
    I'd have run the bugger over!
     
    Maze, Jul 19, 2003
    #2
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  3. dorothy.bradbury

    Wayne Smith Guest

    Interesting read, Dorothy. Sorry about your bad spine, but at least
    you have one; your government, and therefore the people as a whole,
    is spineless. You don't need a video camera - you need a government
    "of the people, for the people", which would allow you to have a Smith
    & Wesson in your car for self protection! We all know the crime rate
    in England has skyrocketed since they took your guns, don't we?!
     
    Wayne Smith, Jul 19, 2003
    #3
  4. Thanks for the replies.

    Re protection - UK law requires you to be victim first, and/or use
    reasonable force.
    Intruder who is shot by UK farmer, gets legal aid to sue the farmer. Manure
    as settlement?
    The risk is then, whether anything of defence gets used on the defender.

    He settled for a wing mirror, so I guess had he got through the window he
    would have
    punched me a few times and that's it - can't see how his frantic energy
    could have lasted.
    Fortunately he wasn't carrying anything, made the TV filmed attacks look
    unfrenzied.


    Re mini-video-camera - looks like the 007-toy-reject spycan might do.
    Few seconds, doesn't look very camera like, no flash anyway for video use.

    Will come down to whether it has simple 1-touch-record.
     
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 19, 2003
    #4
  5. dorothy.bradbury

    John Navas Guest

    [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <BB3DE79B.FA70%> on 18 Jul 2003 23:06:23 GMT,
    It would probably just get you in more trouble, either with the attacker or
    with the authorities, even in Texas. Really bad idea.
     
    John Navas, Jul 19, 2003
    #5
  6. dorothy.bradbury

    John Navas Guest

    [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <> on Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:42:13
    Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

    Homicide Suicide Unintentional

    USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)
    Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)
    Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -
    Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -
    England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)
    Japan 0.04 (1998) 0.04 (1995) <0.01 (1997)
     
    John Navas, Jul 19, 2003
    #6
  7. dorothy.bradbury

    MarkH Guest

    You don’t say how much you can afford, if price is not too much of a
    problem there is a Nokia cellphone that can do photos and video. This
    could be a very handy device to have on hand.
     
    MarkH, Jul 19, 2003
    #7
  8. dorothy.bradbury

    Guest

    just kill the bastard and we'll pay johnny cochran for you

    "dorothy.bradbury" schreef:
     
    , Jul 19, 2003
    #8
  9. dorothy.bradbury

    George Kerby Guest

    Oh Yeah, I should know you're an EXPERT on the law and Texas.
    FYI:

    HOUSTON CHRONICLE ARCHIVES


    Paper: Houston Chronicle
    Date: TUE 07/23/02
    Section: A
    Page: 16
    Edition: 3 STAR
    Local attorney cleared in road -rage shooting
    Staff


    Houston attorney David J. Russo was cleared by a grand jury Monday in the
    shooting death of a Sugar Land man who punched out a window of Russo's sport
    utility vehicle during a road -rage incident.

    Russo, 32, shot Marcus Shane Peacock about 7 p.m. April 17 in the 2100 block
    of Richmond at Shepherd. Police said Peacock, 38, had cut Russo off in
    traffic, and both vehicles stopped.

    After Peacock broke the driver's side window of the SUV, Russo fired four or
    five shots at him. No charges were filed against Russo.


    Copyright notice: 
    All materials in this archive are copyrighted by Houston Chronicle
    Publishing Company Division, Hearst Newspapers Partnership, L.P., or its
    news and feature syndicates and wire services. No materials may be directly
    or indirectly published, posted to Internet and intranet distribution
    channels, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed
    in any medium. Neither these materials nor any portion thereof may be stored
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    George Kerby, Jul 19, 2003
    #9
  10. dorothy.bradbury

    George Kerby Guest

    Don't waste your time with this idiot, David.
    You will NEVER convince a gun-hater that they are evil.
    When you disarm the people the people will not have any rights.
    Since we have issued concealed carry permits the murder rate in Texas has
    decreased by 40%+. I am not saying that is a DIRECT cause and effect but
    I'll take what I can get. I wish it was NON concealed permits. In other
    words like the old "Saturday Night" skit with the camera recording people
    flashing their armour when being prompted by the "Show Us Your Gun" sign.


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    George Kerby, Jul 19, 2003
    #10
  11. Sorry for this thread going off topic, my fault, but...

    MarkH wrote...
    Q: Can it store the video, or must it be sent to another "videophone"?

    I wasn't aware they did video, but that might be ideal.
    Storage is important, however transmit is also great because that allows the
    moving & duplication of evidence quickly away from the scene. Will
    investigate.

    Charlie D wrote...
    <snip> re Epson camera.

    I have a "still" camera, but I need one without flash.
    Flash into the face of an attacker is not going to help, plus somewhat minor
    in the situation it is technically illegal to discharge a flash gun in a car
    (UK)


    o Thanks for the replies
    o NRA, down-boy, keep on topic for the group :)

    3 areas to investigate, phones, "spycam" & perhaps recent digital cameras
    since they say they do video. It will come down to an easily-found 1-touch
    video re reaction time.

    The second baseball bat attack on Age Concern charity shop on Sat a.m., so
    Police too busy to call again. Those old nighties must be in demand, or
    balls.
     
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 19, 2003
    #11
  12. dorothy.bradbury

    George Kerby Guest


    BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

    Wrong answer.

    Here in Texas we don't pray n' spray like those ragheads in Iraq and we
    don't hold a piece at arms length and upside down like the brothers in the
    movies. We carefully aim and S-Q-U-E-E-E-Z-Z-Z-E the round into the
    offending perp's chest.

    In addition, the shotgun that I suggested is a perfect defense weapon for
    that sort of work. It is VERY effective at short ranges and will not cause
    serious injury beyond a few yards.

    However, you most likely cannot appreciate the differences among various
    firearms. A "gun" is a "gun" to your sort. Here, our kids are taught to
    respect and not fear weapons. My dad gave me my first .410 shotgun when I
    was ten years of age and given copious instructions about the safety and
    operation of this tool. My Dad and I had a lot of great times together
    hunting.

    These days, kids are just told that "Guns Are Bad". Therefore, the
    rebellious children (that we all once were) will use them as toys of power
    and status symbols, rather than serious and deadly objects of respect.

    Except in large cities, like Houston mentioned here, most everyone has a
    "gunrack" in their pickup and there is usually a "varmit getter" on it. It
    is useful for *ALL* types of varmits and deters this type of behavior when
    displayed.

    When a guy is trying to break out your window in the middle of a street to
    do you bodily harm, I'm sure you're going to regret defending yourself
    later, if you chose to do so with a short range defensive weapon.

    I won't.


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    George Kerby, Jul 19, 2003
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  13. No I didn't mean it like that re NRA *smile*.

    Thanks, but ridiculously those sprays aren't legal in the UK.

    I think a pepper spray should be legal, and the criteria was clear:
    o Until he broke the glass it is in the criminal damage area
    ---- video, photo, record, phone police & let them listen in
    o Once the glass broke the event defines the intent
    ---- pepper spray gets you dis-orientation time
    ---- which in the /right/ situation is ideal

    However, I was blocked in front - so nowhere to go.
    Two sets of un-sync'd traffic lights ahead, high UK traffic density.
    His car a Golf GTI 16V, mine 11yrs old, risk is high speed multiple
    fatality.

    Clearway with traffic like gravity pushing you forward to him stopped,
    no turn-offs, barriers either side, no breakdown lane. Nice eco design :)


    The solutions:
    o In a few weeks colleagues at GM USA are sorting out an industrial
    car-PC they use, with small video cameras. Just needs 12V, rugged.

    o For personal use, the VGA pen-cam should be ok re witnesses around.
    ---- Provides the video of assault, I can drop it under the seat then
    ---- Provides the "act or media frenzy" to get action.

    There are some other pen-cams, so I'll look at those too.
    GM colleague suggested the professional wireless pen-cam too.

    "Black-box cameras & panic systems" are very much on the agenda.
     
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 20, 2003
    #13
  14. Thanks for the comments.

    o Yes, hairspray
    o Ideal if the window goes through

    Small compact versions available.

    There were 2 witnesses, lorry behind following me from Runcorn, and the red
    raised 4x4 in front similarly who witnessed the attack & criminal damage.
    Since
    4 lanes of traffic stopped, around 15-30 cars, there could be more.

    Forgot to do 3 quick photographs of he cars, and lorry, around the scene
    and exact location. There just might be video camera footage available too.


    Currently investigating the 8x2.5x6cm Mustek DV3000 handheld videocam.
    Easy for a passenger to hold pointed at the window, tiny & discrete.

    Ideal would be one with a Video-IN so acting as a DVR, Digital Video
    Recorder.
    That allows a fixed in-vehicle camera, rather than the PC-type DVR
    solutions.
     
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 20, 2003
    #14
  15. Re cameras - a more innovative solution:

    o Archos do a video-input capable recorder
    ---- chips + hard drive = tiny + low-power + vast recording capability
    (start at journey start)

    o Any video camera can be used I *think*
    ---- simple pinhole pointing diagonally behind me at the driver door &
    windscreen

    Hands free, cheap, quality digital video recording.
    Usable portable backup/transfer hard drive for business use too re expenses.

    For the price, it makes a useful DVR for a surveillance/witness app.
     
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 21, 2003
    #15
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