Alternative routing

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Woody, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. Woody

    Woody Guest

    I'm am starting to get a tad cheesed off with VM and there perpetual
    price rises and fiddling with packages. I have phone (increase £1 and
    which we don't use) and broadband (increase £2) but because I have TV
    as well (FTA and free if you have phone and B/B - again which we
    rarely use) I am classed as a package and that has increased by £1 as
    well so what should have been a £3 increase is actually £4. Hence I am
    up to £32 a month which is where I was when I complained about the
    cost and they gave me a £8 'loyalty discount.' The full rate if I
    didn't have the discount and package would be a few pence short of

    So I am looking at other possibilities, the leads being PlusNet,
    AAISP, or Zen - or any others that the committee would suggest.
    However to get the best package I would assume I have to move phone to
    them as well, which begs the question of do they permit alternative
    routers as BT do now?
    Woody, Jan 31, 2015
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  2. Woody

    Graham J Guest

    The three ISPs you mention all allow you to use any router of your
    choice. If you ask they will supply one, and help you configure it.

    But moving the phone line does not affect the choice of router.

    The type of router depends on how the broadband service is supplied. In
    some areas Virgin supply broadband via co-ax ("Cable") so you require a
    specific modem or router for that service; and you could not necessarily
    use that router for ADSL over a copper pair.

    Virgin might supply you with a telephone service that does not use a
    copper pair connected to the BT infrastructure.

    It follows you could have a phone service via one of any number of
    suppliers which is delivered over a copper pair connected to the BT
    infrastructure; and another phone service from a "cable" supplier (such
    as Virgin) which is delivered via some other sort of wiring.

    The three ISPs you mention are all "quality" suppliers and are not
    necessarily the cheapest; but you will get a sensible level of support
    from a UK-based call centre where everybody speaks English (though
    sometimes with a regional accent).
    Graham J, Jan 31, 2015
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  3. Like you I am with VM and have a TV service and phone that I don't use
    (it's cheaper that way!). I assume you are also in a VM area as you
    have TV. I've stuck with VM because I get 50M and the best I can get
    from other suppliers is about 18M - the VM broadband is also very
    reliable, I've had it since circa 1999 and I don't think it's failed
    more than half a dozen times and only once for more than 24 hours when I
    needed a replacement VM cable modem.

    Another thought if you have a VM phone which isn't provided over the BT
    network you may(?) incur a new installation charge if you switch as you
    will need a line provided by Openreach.

    Peter Andrews, Jan 31, 2015
  4. Woody

    Woody Guest

    No, I still have and use a BT line, and I too have only ever had two
    outages - one on Boxing Day for about 10 hours maybe a decade ago and
    one a couple of years ago when a car demolished a street cab at the
    top of our road.

    I think you may have been on B/B in 1999 but with another non-absorbed
    organisation. I was one of the original beta testers on dial-up
    NTLWorld in around 1999-2000 and on an early B/B rollout. I am also on
    50M and BTOR suggests my limit speed is 17M but FTTC is imminemt here
    so who knows. A frield down the road is on BT B/B and gets 39M
    according to and he's only paying £19 a month!
    Woody, Jan 31, 2015
  5. Woody

    Woody Guest


    By alternative routers I meant alternative (telephone) call routers
    such as 18185 etc.
    Woody, Jan 31, 2015
  6. Woody

    Graham J Guest

    I didn't think your question made much sense, but I didn't want to
    criticise your understanding of cable/ADSL routers so I tried to
    explain. Now you've said you meant call routers you original question
    seems much more reasonable, and no, I can't answer it.
    Graham J, Jan 31, 2015
  7. The alternative phone routing is only on BT. It was a requirement
    imposed on them because they were the incumbant supplier.

    AAISP phone service is VoIP over the broadband. The physical line
    they use to provide broadband is only for the broadband - you can't
    make any chargable calls on it directly. (Don't know how that
    compares with Zen and Plusnet.)
    Andrew Gabriel, Jan 31, 2015
  8. Woody

    Graham. Guest

    I knew what you meant by alternative routing.

    After deregulation I was in the industry that installed a lot of
    alternative carrier routers, or tweaked the programming of customers
    PABXs to achieve the same result.

    We called it LCR, Least Cost Routing, but as the work was sponsored by
    the alternative supplier, that was a little disingenuous, as some
    calls might not be cheaper than BT.

    Typically, a few months down the line the customer would strike a
    better deal to come back to BT, and the same third-party engineer
    would return to reverse the work he did last time.

    I am not proud to have been a part of that, it entailed being
    economical with the truth with the customers.

    So ACR Alternative Carrier Routing is a better term than LCR, pity it
    also means Antonymous Call Rejection.
    Graham., Jan 31, 2015
  9. Woody

    Woody Guest

    Sorry Bert, could you rephrase that. I'm not quite sure what you mean
    by the last line.
    Woody, Jan 31, 2015
  10. Woody

    7 Guest

    For UK Internet I would recommend BT as they have the 70mbit service
    which does 70 mbits download and uploads up to 20mbit.

    Since I bought it, my productivity went through the roof
    as I can ssh into all the company offices, and rsync or scp
    all the files day and night securely. Running ssh -X, I can
    run applications remotely as if it were on my machine.
    These lines are just about fast enough to do all that.
    I also have mail server, ftp server, ssh server, webcams,
    wiki, webserver, VoIP and many other items running
    which VM blocks/interferes with with their PATHETIC attempts to get
    people to buy their phone service (the UTTER fscking trolls!! -
    I don't even know what a phone is - so why would I want to buy one!!
    Everyone uses £30 Android smartphone which you can buy from

    For TV try Roku3 streaming box. Some 500+ channels + pay channels

    My understanding is that movie piracy has gone down to 1% of internet
    traffice since these 500+ internet channels and the complement
    of paid channels has wiped out the need for movie piracy
    altogether. It looks like TV has died its death. About half of UK
    have these streaming boxes. There are some 10,000+ free internet radio
    stations. Soon there every tom dick and harry will be setting
    up internet TV stations and broadcasting. The day of 10,000+
    free internet channels is not far off. And they seem to be making
    big money from ad revenue too if they can keep their viewers interested.
    7, Jan 31, 2015
  11. Woody

    Woody Guest

    Oh dear, a little embittered methinks?

    VM actually works very well for me except at busy times when it slows
    a bit. I use VoIP from two SPs and Skype (with or without video) with
    no problem or blocking. Apart from two periods, one a fault on Boxing
    Day that lasted 14 hours, and the other due to car+streetcab which
    took three days to fix, I have never had an outage in12-13 years.

    I'm just getting fed up with their ever increasing prices.
    Woody, Jan 31, 2015
  12. 18185 and friends are available on BT, Post Office and Primus (now 'Fuel
    Broadband') home phones - I don't think anyone else does them now.

    One option might be to go for the cheaper ISP deal and use VOIP over the top
    - depending on usage, might work out cheaper than ending up on a more
    expensive deal that allows overrides. Or use 0844 over-the-top instead.
    Or perhaps a VOIP box with dialplan that can mix-and-match.

    If the line isn't LLU it might not be cheaper to use them for phone, so you
    could pick the best of each.

    Though, IME, if you're a broadband-only customer Virgin generally leave you
    alone and don't muck about with 'bundles' etc. Though it helps being on an
    old, slower, tier.

    Theo Markettos, Feb 1, 2015
  13. Woody

    Woody Guest

    Would that I could afford to be a B/B only customer - that would suit
    me to the ground.

    There must be something wrong if you can buy a package including B/B
    for 25% or more less that B/B alone. There is <nothing> in the T's &
    C's that says you must use the phone so what revenue benefit is there
    to VM especially as they give you free TV as well?

    What is annoying - and it seems hugely common across many parts of
    business these days - is that new customers can get the lesser deal
    that you really want or the deal that you already have for <less> than
    you are paying, and if you want to change the only way is up, never
    down. The only option is to threaten to leave and (eventually) get put
    through to Retentions who have wonderous powers of negotiation.

    When my daughter and Son-in-Law moved to a rented house in the middle
    of 2013 in Bath, my s-in-l who had been a VM users for about eight
    years in Bristol got onto VM and got 30Mb data (then the highest) and
    phone for £9 for the first six months and then (and now still despite
    having moved into their own house in the middle of last year) is still
    only paying £15 plus the recent increases for which I am paying £32.
    Their trouble is that they couldn't use the VM line at the rented
    house due to spam calls and calls for a previous user of the number.
    When they moved they were promised a new number but the old one was
    moved with them. Fortunately I was there and pushed the VM man hard
    and got the number changed but guess what? That number has also been
    previously allocated and gets spam calls as well. They just
    disconnected their line phone and used their mobiles, and I set them
    up with a Sipgate VoIP line so that they could call us free via our
    Sipgate number. They have just reconnected their landline and,
    surprise surprise, there are now no spam calls.

    Curiously for various reasons I have had two VM landline numbers over
    the last decade and apart from a couple of wrong numbers on the
    present one in the first few months we have <never> had a spam call. I
    wonder why?
    Woody, Feb 1, 2015
  14. Woody

    Andy Burns Guest

    Actually Plusnet did offer me the cheap deal that new customers get when
    I phoned up about something unrelated, and recommended moving to cheaper
    packages, or dropping optional extras. I think the "BT way" is slowly
    getting at them though ...
    Andy Burns, Feb 1, 2015
  15. Woody

    grinch Guest

    that will be because BT maintain the telephone directory and it only has
    their numbers in it. VM dont produce a directory of their own as far as
    I know.

    That means I am ex directory for no cost as I have a ported
    nynex/NTL/VM number.
    grinch, Feb 1, 2015
  16. I guess it's just part of the "one size fits all" policy that is used
    for pretty much all technology now, as it's cheaper to provide
    everybody with the same thing than mess about with individual
    requirements, especially when considering the most expensive part of
    the process, i.e. the part that involves physical work.

    Think of the number of features in a typical hi-fi or video setup, or
    in any software application on a computer, that you never use. Think
    of the number of gadgets that are packed with extra adaptors and
    fittings that you throw away. It's less bother to provide all the
    controls to everybody and let individuals decide what they need.

    If you're going to dig up somebody's garden to install a cable to
    their house, you don't want to come back later if they or the next
    owners change their minds about what they want, so you just run the
    same cable to the same termination box for everybody. The cable is
    cheaper than a callout.

    Roderick Stewart, Feb 1, 2015
  17. Woody

    7 Guest

    Woody wrote:

    For every 100 pounds sent to VM, 90 pounds goes up in flames as interest.
    The remaining 10 pounds goes towards services.

    I really really don't know how many offconn regulators got bribed to get
    this fscking crap through.
    7, Feb 1, 2015
  18. You are wrong, the BT directory lists all numbers, both my BT and VM
    lines are in it and adjacent - which is presumably why I very, very
    occasionally get sequential marketing calls from the same person, or
    when both phones ring together I've even managed to get two people in
    the same call centre talking to each other by placing the two handsets

    Peter Andrews, Feb 1, 2015
  19. Woody

    Clive Page Guest

    Plusnet allow use of 18185 etc, perhaps because they are part of the BT
    Clive Page, Feb 1, 2015
  20. Woody

    eastender Guest

    You may want to consider my set-up:

    Virgin cable - broadband only
    BT - land line rental
    ICUK - telephone calls

    ICUK is very cheap and I make a lot of international calls.

    The kids have just started a month's trial of Netflix - I may cave in
    and subscribe to this.

    eastender, Feb 2, 2015
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