All digital cameras use interpolation

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Charles Schuler, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Why are you speaking? You're incriminating yourself.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 5, 2004
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  2. I'm sorry to flog you. But we've come a long way, when this started you
    seriously thought Foveon was a 3.4MP Bayer.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 5, 2004
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  3. ....
    Ouch. One should always be careful about throwing words like "obviously"
    around. "Obviously" another way to fairly compare resolutions is to move
    closer to the target with the 1Ds.
    You never did explain to me what this "full frame" and FOV advantage are.
    Unless employing some kind of digital zoom, every picture taken with a
    digital camera uses the entire sensor array. To me, that's a "full frame".
    As far as I can guess, "FOV advantage" seems to mean to you that the
    SD-9 and 1Ds have different fields of view given the same lense and distance
    to the target. Well, that's pretty obvious. But how is this an "advantage"
    that I'm paying for? Are you assuming that having a wider angle of view
    is always an advantage, for some reason?

    Anyway, to my eye, if I'm comparing two cameras, I take the same picture
    and see which produces a better result. You seem to compare two cameras
    by putting the same lense on each and taking different pictures. Why would
    you do that? How does it allow you to compare anything? Other than which
    camera has a wider or narrower field of view given the same lense. But I can
    tell that by simply reading the specs on the cameras.
    Um, because I get
    1. more sensors in the array
    2. fewer color aberations
    3. fewer aliasing artifacts
    4. a different choice of lenses
    5. different mechanicals
    ....

    --
    Dan (Woj...) dmaster (at) lucent (dot) com

    "They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum
    And they charged the people a dollar and a half to see them
    No, no, no / Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone
    They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot."
     
    Dan Wojciechowski, Feb 5, 2004
  4. ....
    ....
    George, have you ever thought that perhaps you could present more cogent
    arguments an be more persuasive if you learned from your mistakes?

    Many attempts have been made to enlighten you (some kindly, others not so)
    that:
    1. Bayer arrays discard no sensors; all are used.
    2. Bayer arrays do *NOT* lump four sensors together to make 1 pixel.

    Can you accept the truth and discuss the advantages and disadvantages of
    these cameras rationally?


    --
    Dan (Woj...) dmaster (at) lucent (dot) com

    "They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum
    And they charged the people a dollar and a half to see them
    No, no, no / Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone
    They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot."
     
    Dan Wojciechowski, Feb 5, 2004
  5. Perfectly true and still meaningless, but you have not answered my
    question; WHAT ARE YOU COMPARING?
     
    Ian Robert Walker, Feb 5, 2004
  6. Charles Schuler

    Azzz1588 Guest

    I concede nothing at all.

    Wherin did I either imply, infer, or otherwise state any
    kind of concession ?
    Please do keep up here, though I know it can be trying on you.

    BTW, Captian Dipto, isnt dead.............





















    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
     
    Azzz1588, Feb 6, 2004
  7. Ok, school is in session.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 6, 2004
  8. Sensors. Obviously you have to use the same lens. Canon users' insistance
    that Canon's must be allowed to use 3X the optical zoom in a resolution test
    is (and they'll still would lose badly to Foveon, see
    http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_05/essay.html) is obviously absurd.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 6, 2004
  9. Or another "obviously" fair would way would be to put the lens cap on the
    Foveon camera.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 6, 2004
  10. It doesn't matter, double green adds nothing. (It actually doubles the
    accuracy of the green measurement, which is hardly worth mentioning.
    No, they blur and smear and reuse the same data, over and over again in all
    the surrounding pixels. If the made 1 from 4 the quality would be about the
    same or increas slightly, but the marketing value to the most vulnerable in
    society would plummet.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 6, 2004
  11. No, you are not, you hope (but fail) to compare resolution.
    You are comparing the difference between a low-pass filtered sensor and an
    unfiltered sensor, combined with a difference of field of view. That's
    "preddy" meaningless if you want to compare resolution.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Feb 6, 2004
  12. Charles Schuler

    YoYo Guest

    hmm George ... it aint Sigma thats for sure!
     
    YoYo, Feb 6, 2004
  13. Charles Schuler

    Azzz1588 Guest

    Than why are you getting all F's in school ???

    Dont you want to learn anything, or just be a failure ??

    Fat dumb and stupid is no way for you to go through life george...




























    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
     
    Azzz1588, Feb 6, 2004
  14. ....

    You didn't address the issue. Do you not see that simply moving closer
    to the target, to equalize the field of view while still using the same lens is
    indeed an "obvious" solution that you overlooked? Do you not see that
    this would create a much fairer comparison of the two camera?


    --
    Dan (Woj...) dmaster (at) lucent (dot) com

    "They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum
    And they charged the people a dollar and a half to see them
    No, no, no / Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone
    They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot."
     
    Dan Wojciechowski, Feb 6, 2004
  15. George Preddy, Feb 6, 2004
  16. Sigma is indeed the largest lens maker in the world today.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 6, 2004
  17. FOV is unrelated to resolving power, it is a crop factor we are talking
    about. If you crop a picture, resolution does not change. If you have
    10.3M sensors in a cropped FOV, obviously the resolution is going to be
    spectacular compared to a camera with 11M sensors in a full frame. See...

    http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_05/essay.html
     
    George Preddy, Feb 6, 2004
  18. SNIP
    Of course it isn't. Taken from the same position, does a wide angle lens or
    a tele lens resolve more distant detail?????????????????????
    In the output, e.g. print, it does!!!!!!!!!! Ever tried to print a 3x2 pixel
    image at 8x10 inch, and compared the result to a, say, 3072x2048 pixel image
    at 8x10 inch???????????????

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Feb 6, 2004
  19. Bart van der Wolf, Feb 6, 2004
  20. Sigma is the largest __independent__ manufacturer of lenses. They are NOT
    the largest producer of lenses, anateur or pro, not by a long shot.
    Technically you could say that they are not independent, since they do make
    their own SLRs, but they have virtually zero market share in cameras so it's
    still a reasonably accurate claim.

    The largest manufacturer of SLR camera lenses is Canon, followed by Nikon.
    Sigma doesn't claim to be the largest lens manufacturer either, look at
    their web site.

    The dominant pro lens line in the world today is Canon, simply because Canon
    is the dominant producer of professional SLRs, both film and digital. Nikon
    is second. There really isn't a third, since no one else produces pro
    lenses.

    Of course being the largest producer of an item doesn't mean you produce the
    best products, and being small doesn't mean that your products are bad. GM
    is the largest vehicle producer in the world, McDonald's is the largest
    producer of hamburgers, Microsoft is the largest producer of software, etc.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Feb 7, 2004
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