Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

Discussion in 'VOIP' started by Mark, May 22, 2005.

  1. Mark

    Ototin Guest

    That is terrible. The 19:00 to 08:00 is offered by Fido, a GSM service
    provider in Canada.
     
    Ototin, May 31, 2005
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  2. Actually it's 21:00-0:700.
    If you have friends who go to bed early, there's an extra cost option
    that makes your free nights start at 1900. I haven't bothered since I
    don't use up my minutes as it is.
     
    John R. Levine, May 31, 2005
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  3. "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    Not arbitrary at all. I wanted to show the difference in prices if calling
    patterns that are shaped by people avoiding making calls to mobiles are NOT
    factored in. What happens with caller pays, is that everyone tries to avoid
    calling mobile phones.

    I did two comparisons.

    I compared the 1000 minutes divided up as stated in the previous post, then
    I did peak-only, with 100 minutes mobile to off-network mobile, 100 minutes
    of termination charges from off-peak mobile to mobile, 100 minutes of mobile
    to landline, and 100 minutes of landline to mobile.

    For 1000 minutes:

    100 Peak Outgoing, In-Network Mobile to Mobile
    100 Peak Incoming, In-Network Mobile to Mobile
    100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Landline
    100 Peak Incoming, Landline to Mobile
    100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Out-of-Network Mobile
    100 Peak Incoming, Out-of-Network Mobile to Mobile
    100 Off-Peak Outgoing, Mobile to Landline
    100 Off-Peak Incoming, Landline to Mobile
    100 Off-Peak Outgoing, In-Network Mobile to Mobile
    100 Off-Peak Incoming, In-Network Mobile to Mobile

    Verizon Wireless in the U.S. had an average price of $.06/minute
    T-mobile in the UK had an average price of $0.19/minute

    For:

    100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Landline
    100 Peak Incoming, Landline to Mobile
    100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Out-of-Network Mobile
    100 Peak Incoming, Out-of-Network Mobile to Mobile

    Verizon Wireless in the U.S. had an average price of $0.15/minute
    T-mobile in the UK had an average price of $0.19/minute

    Where the termination charges really hurt UK users is in off-peak received
    calls, and off-peak calls made to off-network mobiles. For a U.S. user, all
    these calls would be free. Mobile phones are used extensively as a
    replacement for long distance service, since you can make calls of virtually
    any length, anywhere in the country, at no charge, nights and weekends.

    Also, Verizin is the most expensive U.S. carrier. A similar plan on T-Mobile
    gives you 1000 peak minutes, but T-Mobile's coverage in the U.S. is not very
    good.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, May 31, 2005
  4. "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    In terms of cost, there is no real question about that. Caller pays has
    resulted in much higher overall costs.
    It would almost certainly have that effect, as it would spur real
    competition among carriers. The system as it stands, stifles competition.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, May 31, 2005
  5. On some carriers this is an option, i.e. Sprint charges $5 per line for the
    better hours for N&W. Those of us that have earlier N&W as a result of
    having signed up before the carriers worsened N&W, cannot make many changes
    to our service without losing the earlier start time.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, May 31, 2005
  6. Mark

    Osmo R Guest

    I just consider it polite not to call others at night. If that is an
    expression of me me me then so be it.

    Osmo
     
    Osmo R, May 31, 2005
  7. Mark

    Ivor Jones Guest

    People can call my phones whenever they want. If I'm not here to answer
    it, then voicemail or an answering machine will do so. If I am here but
    don't want to answer it, I don't..! If I don't want to be disturbed by the
    ringing, I switch off the ringers in the phones..! Or in the case of my
    mobiles, switch them off all together..!

    Easy really..!

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, May 31, 2005
  8. Mark

    Miguel Cruz Guest

    Unless it's to plan something for that same evening (like an early dinner) I
    think it's pretty rare that I make or receive a personal call before 9pm.

    None of which is to say that it's rude or polite to call at any particular
    hour (except Saturday and Sunday mornings - I think there's something in the
    Bible about how rude that is) - it all depends on the people you talk to.
    The point is that it's not useful to assume that just because your own
    calling falls into a particular pattern, you can somehow apply that to the
    general public.

    miguel
     
    Miguel Cruz, May 31, 2005
  9. []
    Sure, but in the same way you can set up your phones so you're oblivious
    to people calling, it's also not unusual for some people to have a
    cut-off time after which they won't call, or expect a call. I won't
    usually call anyone after 10pm unless it's arranged in advance, or they
    say 'call as late as you want.' I keep my various phones' ringers on all
    the time when I'm at home (I switch the phone off in many work and other
    situations)- not that I always answer the calls. I usually disable the
    text alert sounds though- as you can expect to get email at any time,
    and there have been a few times I've forgotten, and have been awoken at
    2am... :)
     
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and , May 31, 2005
  10. It's entirely arbitrary to divide the distribution of minutes the way
    you did. Do you have evidence that people use their phones in the way
    you did your breakdown?
    It would help if you knew a little about how the UK market actually
    works, instead of guessing. For example, most of my students are on
    deals where their inclusive minutes include mobiles and landlines- they
    probably call mobiles more than landlines. I have a different kind of
    plan, which suits my needs- i.e. I call landlines most of the time. The
    point is that there are a variety of plans available depending on what
    your callin pattern is. Most people are probably better off on a PAYG
    plan IMO. Recent statistics for the UK indicated that 75% of mobile
    phone 'accounts' were PAYG, but I suspect a lot of those accounts are
    dormant.
    I'm aware of how you divided it up, and it's an entirely arbitrary
    comparison. You have no evidence that this is anything like a 'typical'
    (I note the word was thrown around quite liberally by yourself and
    andypandy) mobile phone usage in either market.

    []
    There are also cheap plans in the UK which have large numbers of offpeak
    minutes. And you can call landlines at any time of the day in the UK for
    an unlimited time for as low as a 3p connection charge. It's pointless
    making these kinds of comparisons unless you know how people use their
    phones. If you could point me to a website which actually breaks down
    such statistics, I'd love to see it. I'm mostly finding summarised
    market research, most of it with some kind of agenda.
     
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and , Jun 1, 2005
  11. Fair enough, but it's not as if Osmo's calling pattern is that unusual.
    There's a good reason that offpeak kicks in at 6, 7 or 9pm of whatever
    it is in someone's local market. Most people want or need to make calls
    in peak time- that's why it's more expensive to call then. The companies
    don't give their customers 'free' offpeak minutes because they like
    them.
     
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and , Jun 1, 2005
  12. Which has not actually been proved here, no matter how many times you
    repeat it. There are no verifiable statistics I can find which actually
    demonstrate this. I keep on getting told that study after study confirms
    this. Which study? I'm honestly quite agnostic on this.
    I'm not without my criticisms of the UK mobile market, but I've not seen
    anything here which makes me think it's the 'caller pays' system which
    contributes to it.
     
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and , Jun 1, 2005
  13. Mark

    Ototin Guest

    Let's try this comparison. The parameters are as follows;

    - Calls are to be made from 07:00 to 18:00 on weekdays
    - assume a calling plan with 200 minutes per month and no special
    deals such free incoming calls for mobile 1 (M1) and mobile 2 (M2)

    In Canada a sample calling plan for a mobile account is $20.00 per
    month that includes 200 minutes. Airtime is charged on both incoming
    and outgoing calls.

    Landline plan is $26.00 per month with 43200 minutes (30 days X 24
    hours X 60 minutes).

    Let's assume a calling pattern as follows;

    - landline to M1 for 70 minutes
    - M1 to landline for 80 minutes
    - M1 to M2 for 50 minutes

    You may pick any combination of minutes used as long as they add up to
    200 minutes. Also keep in mind that the minutes used for each type of
    call are done over the 30 day period. You cannot have one call that
    last the entire allocated minutes for each type of call.

    Effective rate for the landline is 26.00/43200 = $0.0006 per minute.
    Effective rate for M1 and M2 is $0.10 per minute.

    - landline to M1 for 70 minutes costs $7.042
    - M1 to landline for 80 minutes costs $8.048
    - M1 to M2 for 50 minutes costs $10.00

    Total costs is CDN$25.09
     
    Ototin, Jun 1, 2005
  14. Why? What basis does it have in reality?

    []
    Sorry, what do you mean "sample?" Do you mean average? If so, that's
    incredibly cheap. So, is the average calling plan in Canada CDN$20? I'm
    impressed.
     
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and , Jun 1, 2005
  15. "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    It's irrelevant how people use their phones, both calls to and from mobiles,
    from and to landlines, because how they use them is highly influenced by the
    way the tariffs are set up. Just in this thread, we've seen many posts about
    how people avoid calling mobiles from landlines whenever possible, due to
    the termination charges.

    What you want to do is to look at several different calling patterns, and
    the relative costs of each. It's very hard to do, because the mobile
    companies do not make all their charges public, at least not on their web
    sites.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Jun 1, 2005
  16. []
    True- it's surely not irrelevant how people use their phones, because
    the issue at hand is how much people pay for their calls. So, if someone
    has a mobile with inclusive minutes to other mobiles, then the cost
    isn't the same factor.
    You can usually figure out the costs of calls if you delve deep enough
    into the web sites, but of more interest to me would be how people use
    their phones. If someone has 1,000 minutes on a plan, but only averages
    using 500 of them, then it doesn't make sense to divide the plan's cost
    by a 1,000 to get the per minute cost.
     
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and , Jun 1, 2005
  17. Mark

    Ototin Guest

    It means that such a calling plan is being offered by a GSM provider.
    It's not an average of anything or something.
     
    Ototin, Jun 1, 2005
  18. Mark

    Ototin Guest

    So, for the sake of comparison assume that the 1,000 minutes is used
    up. And also assumed a usage during a specific time period, for
    example, from 07:00 to 20:00 everyday.
     
    Ototin, Jun 1, 2005
  19. Mark

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    It is in a way, because people will, consciously or unconsciously, tailor
    their phone usage to fit the tariff they're using. When I was on pay as
    you go, I made hardly any calls on it, using mainly the landline. Now I
    have a contract with hundreds of inclusive minutes, I make almost all my
    calls on the mobile. I use the normal landline hardly at all, but I use
    VoIP to call other people also on it, for free.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Jun 1, 2005
  20. Mark

    Osmo R Guest

    They do not. I surely do not.

    Osmo
     
    Osmo R, Jun 1, 2005
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