AA or CRV3 Lithium Ion v NiMh

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ken F., Aug 14, 2003.

  1. Ken F.

    Ken F. Guest

    Has anyone stumbled across a source for the Li-Ion CRV3 batteries
    shown on the links below? (scroll down a bit to the portion of the
    link in English)
    http://www.digit.no/Nyheter/Teknologi/samsung_ipack.htm

    There's a similar offering from "Power Vision"
    http://pv.apitec.com.tw/product/RCR-V3/manual_e.asp

    I'm trying to figure out if those actually exist and if they might be
    a practical alternative to 2300 mah AA's which will soon be offered by
    Sanyo (and others), The Sanyos in particular would seem to be a good
    bet based on their past products.
    http://www.sanyo.co.jp/koho/hypertext4-eng/0307news-e/0710-e.html

    KF
     
    Ken F., Aug 14, 2003
    #1
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  2. Ken F.

    EdO Guest

    I have also been looking for these and have come to the conclusion that
    they are not available in the USA/Canada but apparently are in Europe
    and Asia.

    Found a place to get PowerVision if you want 1000 units.

    Ed
     
    EdO, Aug 14, 2003
    #2
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  3. Ken F.

    Charlie Self Guest

    Kenfberg asks:
    Don't know if they exist or not, but when the claim NiMh hae memory effect,
    they lose me.

    If they are lying or mistaken, it makes no difference.

    Charlie Self

    "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
    Dwight D. Eisenhower, Inaugural Address, January 20, 1953
     
    Charlie Self, Aug 14, 2003
    #3
  4. Ken F.

    Browntimdc Guest

    (Charlie Self) wrote in
    Judging from the dicey grammer of the website, I doubt they know exactly
    what 'memory effect' means. It's just a catch phrase.

    Tim
     
    Browntimdc, Aug 14, 2003
    #4
  5. Ken F.

    Ron Hunter Guest

    As far as I know, all CRV3 batteries are disposable lithium. Makes a
    nice backup battery because of long (10 years) shelf life, but rather
    expensive to use for general purposes.
     
    Ron Hunter, Aug 14, 2003
    #5
  6. Ken F.

    EdO Guest

    From my search it appears that they are available in Asia and Europe
    but not USA/Canada.

    Found a source for the PowerVison RCRV3 is you want 1000 units.

    Ed
     
    EdO, Aug 15, 2003
    #6
  7. Ken F.

    Ken F. Guest

    No, that's the whole point. Look at the links I provided. There are
    rechargeable Li-Ion CRV3's being promoted, although they are still
    somewhat obscure. I have no use for disposable lithiums but
    rechargeable Li-Ions would seem to offer the possibility of being far
    better than rechargeable NiMH's. That's what I'm trying to get a
    handle on.
    KF
     
    Ken F., Aug 15, 2003
    #7
  8. No, that's the whole point. Look at the links I provided. There are
    With the new 2200mah AAs currently available (and the 2300s soon-to-be), the
    only real advantage I can see to the Li-Ion units would be lighter weight.
    I picked up the 2200mah PowerEx units for my Oly 5050, and you simply can't
    wear 'em out!!! They just go on and on and on and on...

    I tool literally 3 gigs worth of photos (at SHQ mode) on just two sets of
    batteries. Actually more like 1.5; the second set are still going strong.
    Weird, but in a good way!

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
    Mike Jacoubowsky, Aug 15, 2003
    #8
  9. Ken F.

    Ken F. Guest

    Which could be VERY critical when carting them up a climb in a jersey
    pocket;-)
    Another benefit might be shelf life. In my case, where my camera takes
    a pair of AA's, there might also be some slight convenience in not
    having to keep track of pairs of batteries. And I agree that the newer
    NiMH AA's are very good indeed. It's mind boggling that current
    batteries are approaching DOUBLE the capacity of some I was using two
    years ago.

    But the big question that remains unanswered is whether there will be
    any actual capacity benefit in the rechargeable CRV3's. Note that the
    numerical comparisons given on the Power Vision website doesn't
    specify the nature of the NiMH's being compared- they could be 1200 or
    2200 mah.

    I did find another Samsung link:
    http://www.samsung-kameras.de/service/zubehoer.html
    which can be run through
    http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
    to get a semi-English version.


    KF
     
    Ken F., Aug 15, 2003
    #9
  10. thomasdistributing.com has rechargable Li-ion batteries in various formats,
    and chargers for these batteries also.
     
    Marvin Margoshes, Aug 15, 2003
    #10
  11. Standard CRV3 batteries are not rechargeable, but they are not LiIon
    chemistry either. There are about 5 different battery chemistries that
    use lithium, all of which tend to get called "lithium" by people who
    aren't being careful, but they're not the same.

    The usual CRV3 is one of the 3 V non-rechargeable lithium chemistries,
    probably lithium manganese dioxide. On the other hand, the particular
    batteries being discussed in this thread *are* LiIon chemistry, which is
    3.6 V per cell, and they *are* rechargeable. That's why they are
    interesting.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Aug 15, 2003
    #11
  12. Ken F.

    Ken F. Guest

    Excellent advice. Might I respectfully suggest that you follow it.
    You are confusing the commonly available LITHIUM CRV3's with the
    relatively new and relatively unavailable LITHIUM ION CRV3's which
    have the benefit of being rechargeable.

    Come down off your high horse and go to this link which I noted at the
    beginning of this thread:
    http://pv.apitec.com.tw/product/RCR-V3/manual_e.asp

    And while you are googling, if you discover any other links relating
    to rechargeable CRV3's please let us know.

    It never ceases to amaze me how certain people can be of what does NOT
    exist simply because they have not yet encountered it. It also worries
    me that Google is becoming the primary "index" of all the information
    that is scattered about the web. Picture yourself trying to do
    research at a "brick and mortar" library where the books were randomly
    placed on the shelves and the card catalog had been stolen.

    KF
     
    Ken F., Aug 15, 2003
    #12
  13. Ken F.

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Excuse me? Are you saying Google isn't a good index? If so, please
    point me to one that is better..

    I am concerned that cameras made to work well on 2 1.25V NIMH batteries
    (2.5 V) would have a problem with a 3.6V Li-Ion battery. Certainly MY
    camera manual warns that two AA alkaline batteries (3.2V) are not suitable.
     
    Ron Hunter, Aug 16, 2003
    #13
  14. The reason that alkalines aren't suitable for most digicams is not
    because the voltage is higher, but because the output voltage drops too
    much when you draw an amp or two of current. NiMH cells have much lower
    internal resistance, and maintain their voltage under heavy load.

    LiIon also has low internal resistance, so they work well powering
    cameras. Whether the extra voltage is a problem depends on the camera
    design. But a 3.6 V LiIon battery in the CR-V3 shape is going to be
    used in cameras that are already designed to work properly with the 3 V
    disposable CR-V3 - and possibly also a pair of NiMH cells at 2.4 V.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Aug 16, 2003
    #14
  15. Ken F.

    Ron Hunter Guest

    The manual for my camera is quite specific about the reason for not
    using alkalines, and they mention that it is not designed for the higher
    voltage. When a CRV3 battery is in the camera, the camera can sense it
    and, presumably, manage the higher voltage. I don't intend to try any
    battery not specifically recommended by the manufacturer. At least not
    until I am ready to buy a new camera....
     
    Ron Hunter, Aug 16, 2003
    #15
  16. Ken F.

    Ken F. Guest

    I pondered in message
    While the folowing links aroused my interest:
    http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/digitalcameras/news/story/0,39007239,39128661,00.htm
    http://pv.apitec.com.tw/product/RCR-V3/manual_e.asp
    http://www.fotosense.co.uk/samsung_sbp1103_battery_set.html

    Those below, which suggest an equivalent US price in the range of
    $62-88 have certainly dampened my enthusiasm.
    http://www.directdial.com/ca/shopsamsung/item/11031.html
    http://www.fotosense.co.uk/samsungpower.html
    http://hifiphotovideo.kelkoo.fr/b/a...cle/lithium-ion/gamme/ACCESSOIREI/126301.html

    Additionally, I looked carefully at the figures provided by Power
    Vision on their page noted above which suggest that their rechargeable
    "R-CRV3" is good for about 65% of the number of shots of an ordinary
    CRV3.

    For (rough) comparison I also noted the following from the manual for
    a Minolta F200 available at.
    http://www.minoltausa.com/eprise/main/MinoltaUSA/MUSAContent/CPG/CPG_SupportCenter/CPGSupport_Manual

    "Battery performance (recording): Approximately 230 frames with a
    CR-V3 battery, or 140 frames with 1850 mAh Ni-MH batteries: based on
    Minolta's standard test method: LCD monitor on, fullsize images (2272
    X 1704), standard image quality, no instant playback, no voice memo,
    no full-time AF, no subject tracking AF, flash used with 50% of the
    frames."

    Using the Minolta standards puts 1850 mah NiMH at about 61% of a CRV3
    or just under the R-CRV3. Which would suggest that 2100 mah and up
    NiMH AA's would probably have the outright advantage in power and a
    huge lead in power/cost ratio over the R-CRV3's.

    My analysis is based only on a few arbitrary figures that I was able
    to find and is provided for amusement purposes only. There's no
    telling what the real-world figures may ultimately be.

    KF
     
    Ken F., Aug 17, 2003
    #16
  17. Ken F.

    Matt Guest

    Totally off topic, but have you seen this?
    http://www.chainlessbikecompany.co.uk/mainframe.htm

    I saw it in someone's forum sig, only a few minutes ago!
    Perhaps you could have a race?
     
    Matt, Sep 15, 2003
    #17
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