A dSLR's fastest shutter-speed is really no faster than its flash-sync speed.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by SelfImporantName, Jul 7, 2007.

  1. SelfImporantName

    SMS Guest

    Yeah, you don't want to violate the spec, but in reality you often get
    away with it, by design. If you look at how the computer manufacturers
    design their USB port circuitry (which I've done extensively), they
    build in a _lot_ of margin. You don't trip the protection circuit at
    501mA. Look at some of the power control switch data sheets, and the
    fault current is somewhere between 750mA and 1250mA.

    If a port blows out, there's a real design problem, because at least the
    reputable manufacturers have two layers of protection circuitry. You
    have the protection circuit for each port, which as the data sheets
    show, shut the port off at around 1A, plus you have the protection
    circuitry for the power rail that feeds the USB ports, which shuts off
    at about 2.0A.

    What used to blow out were the PS/2 ports when people tried to tap too
    much power off the +5V. These weren't resettable either, they were fuses
    soldered onto the motherboard, and replacing it meant disassembling the
    computer, removing the motherboard, and doing some fun soldering of
    surface mount fuses.
     
    SMS, Jul 10, 2007
    #81
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  2. SelfImporantName

    John Sheehy Guest

    Well, how would you do bounce flash with a DSLR and HSS at ISO 100 and
    1/4000?

    --
     
    John Sheehy, Jul 10, 2007
    #82
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  3. SelfImporantName

    dj_nme Guest

    How many P&S cameras have you used in real low-light shooting?
    I can easily frame and focus with my Pentax ist-DS or K10D, while I've
    noticed that P&S users are staring/squinting at the black rectangle that
    the LCD on their P&S has become.
    The thing that you cannot do is to make the lens faster.
    How many makers offer a 50mm f1:1.4 or 30mm f1:1.4 (35mm equivalent)
    lens for a P&S at either the short or long end of their zoom range?
    None yet, unless something as yet un-publicised is on the market.
    The closest I've heard of is the the Pana Lumix FZ20, with f1:2.8 constant.
    The best SLR lenses are at least 2 stops (for f1:1.4) or 2.5 stops (for
    f1:1.2) brighter or with RF lenses, 3 stops (for f1:0.95) brighter at
    their biggest aperture.
     
    dj_nme, Jul 11, 2007
    #83
  4. SelfImporantName

    ASAAR Guest

    Is that something that the C-8080 is supposed to be able to do?
    Olympus's FL-36 and FL-50 flashes have HSS modes (FP TTL Auto and FP
    Manual), but as far as I can those modes work with Olympus's DSLRs
    but aren't available when either flash is attached to the C-8080WZ.

    On the other hand the C-8080's built-in flash is compatible with
    high shutter speeds, but obviously won't do bounce flash without the
    use of mirrors. :) This is probably what Rich was referring to.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 11, 2007
    #84
  5. SelfImporantName

    dj_nme Guest

    Easy.
    Set the ISO to 100, the shutter speed to 1/4000th and then point the
    head of the flashgun at either the ceiling or a wall.
    Then press the shutter button.
    Simple.
     
    dj_nme, Jul 11, 2007
    #85
  6. SelfImporantName

    Guest Guest

    olympus had a f/1.8 lens with a 40-120mm equivalent:
    <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/oly_c2040z.asp>
     
    Guest, Jul 11, 2007
    #86
  7. And remember, that even with the same f/ratio, the larger pixel
    sized camera gets more photons in the same exposure time.
    E.g. if a small pixel camera, say 6 megapixels with 2-micron pixels
    and an f/2 lens giving an X degree field of view, and a camera with
    8-micron pixels (let's assume same quantum efficiency and
    fill factors), again with 6-megapixels with an f/2 lens
    giving the same X degree field of view, the 8-micron pixel camera
    gathers 16 times more light in the same exposure for each pixel.

    But what all this thread illustrates (besides troll behavior)
    is that there is no perfect camera. Each type of camera has
    advantages and disadvantages, and people need to choose the
    best tool for their application and budget.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Jul 11, 2007
    #87
  8. SelfImporantName

    dj_nme Guest

    That is still almost a full stop slower than the standard 50mm f1:1.4
    lens made by Pentax, Canon, Nikon and Sigma.
    Also, it still can't be swapped out for a faster or wider lens if it is
    required.
     
    dj_nme, Jul 11, 2007
    #88
  9. SelfImporantName

    Pat Guest

    Am I missing something here? I haven't read this entire thread, but I
    don't understand the question re bouncing a flash with a DSLR at ISO
    100 at 1/4000th.

    My Canon dSLR only goes to 1/2000th (it's a bit old) but it'll sync
    the flash at that speed. Why is another question altogether, but
    it'll do it.

    The question of why use a dSLR is totally separate. If you don't
    know, then you haven't been pushing your photography to the limit.
    Granted, most people don't really need one, but if you are pushing the
    edges of what you can do, you need one.

    I can go over into the corner and throw the 300mm f/2 lens on my
    dSLR. You just can't do that with a P&S. I can break a lens, take it
    off, and keep shooting (done that). I can match the lens to whatever
    I am photographing. I can switch lenses between cameras. I can get
    multiple strobes sync'd through TTL metering. There are lots of
    reasons. Most people don't use the camera to it's potential, but
    other really need the dSLR.

    When you are ready for one, you'll know.
     
    Pat, Jul 11, 2007
    #89
  10. SelfImporantName

    dj_nme Guest

    An added point that if you're shooting away in less than ideal
    conditions and your lens or camera get damaged, it can be swapped out
    for another one.
    Try doing that with your P&S, without sending it off to a repair centre.
     
    dj_nme, Jul 11, 2007
    #90
  11. SelfImporantName

    Guest Guest

    you said you hadn't seen one faster than an f/2.8. there's one.
    olympus also made a few others with f/2 lenses.
     
    Guest, Jul 11, 2007
    #91
  12. SelfImporantName

    John Turco Guest


    Hello, Thomas:

    Now, don't start that old "photography as art" debate, again! Nearly all
    camera jockeys are mere snapshooters, who only want everyday pictures,
    not expressions of profundity. <g>


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
     
    John Turco, Jul 11, 2007
    #92
  13. SelfImporantName

    FrankLM Guest

    I can grab a converter lens out of my pocket and put it on my f/2.4 camera's P&S
    Zeiss lens and get 320mm (without getting any dust on my sensor), at half the
    weight of your lens minus the camera body, at 1/10th the cost of both.
    I can buy 3 whole new P&S cameras that provide images as good as your dSLR just
    for the price of the lens you replaced. Or carry 2 whole brand-new cameras for
    spares for the price of that lens. Their weight and space combined will still be
    less than your camera.
    I can go from 11mm, 180-degree fish-eye to 432mm telephoto, all with or without
    macro and tele-macro capabilities from 0cm to infinity. And all with one camera
    and 2 lightweight and inexpensive conversion lenses. At one third the weight of
    your camera body with just one lens. When I don't want to bring my camera-bag I
    just put the lenses in my pockets and the camera around my neck. Ready for any
    situation. Especially handy when bike-riding.
    It's not that you "can", it's that you HAVE TO, to get any decent images out any
    dSLR. All the while inviting dust and grit to your statically charged sensor so
    that every image you take that day will be full of defects. But you don't
    realize it until you get your photos on a computer where you can find out your
    whole day was ruined because you changed your lens. Not to mention scaring away
    any wildlife or alerting anyone around you that you are taking photos, because
    of the obnoxious and unmistakable sounds that that noisy dSLR will make.
    I'm not ready for a dSLR because I already outgrew their usefulness,
    limitations, and defects long ago. I also outgrew how much they limit where and
    when you can do your photography.

    May your photography skills grow enough to were you can learn to recognize how
    that dSLR is severely crippling you.
     
    FrankLM, Jul 11, 2007
    #93
  14. SelfImporantName

    FrankLM Guest

    I always find it funny how often this is mentioned. But the only lag in a P&S's
    EVF or LCD is when the shutter speed changes the EVF/LCD refresh rate. The EVF
    mirroring the exact same shutter speed so you can see how changing it will
    effect your image. An excellent use for an EVF is taking photos of water-falls
    and rapids. As you decrease the shutter speed the EVF shows you exactly how much
    motion-blur the water will have on your final photo. Allowing you to compose
    your image while taking that effect into account. You don't have to take the
    photo first, check it to see if it's right, then shoot again and again until you
    get it right. You get it right the first time with a P&S camera. If you set your
    shutter speed to 1 second, then the EVF refreshes once a second. If you set your
    shutter speed to 1/20th of a second, then the EVF refreshes every 1/20th of a
    second. If you consider taking a photo at 1/1000th of a second and the EVF being
    delayed by 1/1000th of a second as "lag", then you have some serious mental
    issues.
    And yet I can focus in total darkness with one of my P&S cameras faster than you
    can with your dSLR in low-light conditions. Again, just because it is a dSLR
    doesn't mean its focusing speed, or under what lighting conditions it can be
    used, is of any merit whatsoever. How many dSLR cameras have been recalled
    because their "advanced and better" focusing method always focused too near or
    too far on every subject? How come none of you ever mention all the defects and
    faults with your camera's focusing systems?
    See my previous post how that capability is not only available to dSLRs. And it
    can be done on a P&S camera without getting any dust or dirt on the sensor,
    ruining all your photos until it's too late to do anything about it.
    Yes, I'm sure you'll find more (though easily disproved) ways to justify your
    uneducated purchases and buying habits. You all do.
     
    FrankLM, Jul 11, 2007
    #94
  15. SelfImporantName

    FrankLM Guest

    The EVF on a P&S camera displays a 100% accurately framed view of what is on
    your final photo, because that image is taken directly from the sensor that
    takes the photo. The view through a dSLR should be able to accurately frame what
    is on the final image, but often it does not. Since the light paths are
    different, the mirror also not being in a precision fixed position, the
    viewfinder is seeing what the sensor may or may not finally capture. It all
    depends on how well the manufacturer was able to accurately align the dSLR's
    viewfinder's optics and mirror (and keep them that way), with the image that the
    sensor in the camera body sees. Let us not forget how changing to a lens with
    another focal length may alter the longer light-path that has to get to the
    optical view-finder in a dSLR. Change lenses and change the accuracy of your
    viewfinder. A P&S is not thus crippled. What you see in the EVF is what you will
    get on your final photo, no matter how many kinds of lenses you put in front.
     
    FrankLM, Jul 11, 2007
    #95
  16. SelfImporantName

    ASAAR Guest

    Where the sun don't shine, sock puppet. How strange that when I
    first noticed you almost two months ago, it was in a message where
    you replied to someone else :
    You were actually writing about yourself.

    Thanks for not changing things on your end, all the better to
    recognize you and your fellow stablemates on the newly revised

    **** CHDK / Photoline 32 / anti-DSLR Troll List ****
     
    ASAAR, Jul 11, 2007
    #96
  17. SelfImporantName

    ASAAR Guest

    On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 01:09:00 -0500, FrankLM wrote:

    **** Sock Puppet Alert **** (see list below)
    . . .

    **** CHDK / Photoline 32 / anti-DSLR Troll List ****
     
    ASAAR, Jul 11, 2007
    #97
  18. SelfImporantName

    dj_nme Guest

    I imgine that it seems to do this if you've just eaten mushrooms or
    dropped acid.
    What brand/model of P&S are claiming that can do this?
    Rubbish.
    Without a focus-assist light built into the camera or an accessory
    flashgun that "sizzles" to provide AF assist or has a focus assist light
    biult into it, this is simply hogwash.
    Contrast detection focusing (P&S) is _ALWAYS_ slower and less accurate
    than phase detection (DSLR) focusing.
    Claiming otherwise makes you look like a an ignorant troll that has zero
    experience with either P&S digicams or DSLR cameras.
    How often has your P&S simply hunted backwards and forwards without an
    AF lock on anything?
    In other than ideal daylight (or bright indoor lighting), you will have
    your P&S hunting to lock onto anything.
    You also have the misguided idea that because the lens can't be removed,
    that dirt can't be sucked into the mechanism due to the lens being
    zoomed in and out.
    Wake up.
    When you wake up from your daydream and actualy use the cameras that
    you're (making the obviously outrageous and exagerrated) claim of using
    and knowing the strengths and weaknesses of, you will find out just how
    amusing your claims really are.
     
    dj_nme, Jul 11, 2007
    #98
  19. SelfImporantName

    dj_nme Guest

    My point still stands.
    Just try and swap the lens on a P&S for a faster or wider lens.
    The fact that there may be slightly faster or wider lenses on other P&S
    digicams does not help you with the one you have at the moment.

    If you damage the lens on a P&S, it puts the whole camera out of action.
    With a DSLR camera, simply swapping the lens restores the camera to
    usefulness.
    Also conversly, if the DSLR camera body is damaged the lens can be
    swapped to different body and shooting can continue.
     
    dj_nme, Jul 11, 2007
    #99
  20. SelfImporantName

    FrankLM Guest

    I suggest you try more cameras instead of what other fools told you to use just
    because someone else told them what to use. Do the years of research on cameras
    and lenses, as I did. Your arrogant and foolish reply doesn't deserve the help
    that you beg for. It took me about 8 years of using a trunk-load of digital
    cameras and lenses to finally select my favorite and most versatile photography
    gear. Do you think I'm going to just hand to you 8 years of work for free? I'll
    only tell someone that I've been kind enough to take under my direct tutelage in
    real life, IF I decide someone has enough talent so I'm not wasting my time. The
    very fact that you think a dSLR is somehow superior to other cameras shows me
    that you have no talent nor creativity. If you did as much research as I have
    you'll be surprised to find out that everything I stated was 100% true about P&S
    cameras. But I bet you'd rather sit there safe in your justifications of why you
    wasted so much money feeding your dSLR addiction. Even if I told you which P&S
    cameras and which conversion lenses have these capabilities you'd claim they did
    not. I finally settled on 2 P&S cameras, and 2 conversion lenses (that can be
    used on any P&S camera with an available thread mount), which do all and more
    than any number of dSLRs and their overpriced and overweight lenses can do all
    combined, providing images that rival any dSLR and overpriced lens.

    It takes years of experience and using nearly a hundred different cameras before
    you find out how much a dSLR is actually a hindrance instead of an asset. May
    you get enough experience and wisdom to outgrow dSLRs one day.
     
    FrankLM, Jul 11, 2007
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