A dSLR's fastest shutter-speed is really no faster than its flash-sync speed.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by SelfImporantName, Jul 7, 2007.

  1. SelfImporantName

    Rich Guest

    My Olympus C-8080 had a 1/4000 shutter speed with flash that can do
    shots I can't duplicate with a DSLR.
    Rich, Jul 8, 2007
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  2. One further note:

    How many "photo finish" sports events are actually in gross-error due to the
    cameras using this type of shutter?

    Imagine a baseball player's foot reaching the base before the catcher's mitt
    touches him. But the camera recorded the catcher's mitt touching him before he
    touched the plate. You'd have to analyze the camera that was used and what
    direction the focal-plane shutter was moving as well as the direction of motion
    of the players before you could make a true call on that play.

    Our recorded history is distorted and in doubt, all thanks to these shutters.

    And you thought this is just some minor problem? Think again.
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
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  3. SelfImporantName

    Pete D Guest

    I guess the bottom line here is that no one actually gives a flying f**k so
    whatever you say is pretty moot anyway.

    Bored now.

    Pete D, Jul 8, 2007
  4. SelfImporantName

    Pete D Guest

    And they are posted where? Proof, show us the goodies Rich.
    Pete D, Jul 8, 2007
  5. And here I thought he said, "... that no one actually gives a flying f**k ..."

    I guess he lied. Big time.

    Now knowing this problem with his dSLR, all dSLRs, it's just eating him up.

    As it should.

    As long as the less intelligent keep dumping their money into dSLR equipment
    that records distortions in nearly all their photos, the manufacturers won't
    bother to expend their resources to make better camera designs that are devoid
    of last-century's mechanical-shutter and mirror limitations and faults.

    Their stupidity is making things worse for us all.
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
  6. Now there's some convoluted reasoning if I ever read it. Not unlike this fun one
    from long ago:

    "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Conrad
    H. Weisert, Union Carbide.

    Do you honestly think that the image you have captured is what is actually
    happening? You have much to learn. Your "stopped action" is not a depiction of
    what was actually happening. You only think it is because your eyes trust your
    camera's image, not reality nor reason. I suppose a curved wooden-bat in a photo
    of a swing at a base-ball means the wood was that flexible, according to your
    reasoning. But that is exactly what your photo will show under the right
    circumstances (your angle to the batter, speed of shutter, etc.) when using any
    Unfortunately you are completely wrong. Though I'm guessing by your inability to
    reason and think clearly (as you have proven above) you will never comprehend
    that fact. I'll try to explain it to again nonetheless:

    At shutter speeds faster than the monitor's refresh-rate you will capture a
    section of scan lines. The shorter the shutter-speed the fewer the scan-lines
    being illuminated at any one time. That is why I mentioned this simple test. In
    a P&S camera's photo you will see a band of scan lines in a neat and even
    rectangular shape no matter how the camera is oriented to the monitor,
    horizontal, vertical, diagonally. At speeds fast enough you may only see 1 or 2,
    even, parallel, and horizontal (to the monitor) scan-lines, as I have tested
    with my own cameras. A P&S camera accurately capturing that section of the
    screen's scanning action. In any camera using a focal-plane shutter such as any
    of the present dSLRs, that perfectly rectangular shape made of parallel lines
    will be greatly distorted because it cannot capture those scan-lines accurately.
    The reason you should tilt the camera at 45 degrees is that if your
    shutter-curtains move in a vertical direction you will never see this distortion
    thinking it doesn't exist. Of if your shutter's curtains do move in a vertical
    direction, then the greatest amount of distortion will occur when you hold the
    camera in portrait-mode. In a photo taken with a 45-degree tilt to the monitor
    you are assured of seeing the distortion no matter how your camera's
    shutter-curtain motion is oriented. (Unless on the odd chance your camera's
    curtains are also moving at 45 degrees, which is unlikely.)

    This is actually a very good way to test your shutter-speed's accuracy (in a P&S
    camera). If you know the monitor's present refresh rate, and how many full and
    partial scan lines are being captured in your image, you can do the math from
    that image to get the exact shutter-speed of your camera. I have used this
    method in the past to test manufacturer's claims because they usually don't
    print shutter-speed accuracy in on-line camera reviews. I like to remove all
    doubt. You can't do this with a dSLR though due to its inherent shutter-induced
    distortions. The number of scan lines in your dSLR image will be greatly
    compressed, expanded, or distorted (depending on the shutter's direction of
    motion and orientation to the monitor) so you can't rely on the number of
    illuminated scan-lines representing the true shutter-speed with any degree of
    accuracy whatsoever.

    You strike me as the typical dSLR consumer. Meaning: not-too-bright and wants to
    be accepted by following the mindless herd ... while wanting to impress them by
    trying to be in front of all the other not-too-brights in their mindless
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
  7. SelfImporantName

    dj_nme Guest

    By "photo finish", one can only presume that you have meant something
    along the lines of a horseracing photofinish camera, that uses a
    slit-exposure system and relies on either movement of the film through
    the camera or read-out speed of it's sensor and has no shutter as you
    have described earlier.
    You do realise that no DSLR camera has a horizontaly traveling shutter?
    All of them use a a metal blade verticaly traveling shutter (even the
    Leica M8 has one, but it's a DRF camera) that won't distort horizontal
    Unless the camera was used in portrait orientation, for the shutter to
    move in the same direction as the action.
    More accurately, you perception of reality seems skewed and distorted.

    BTW: Very clever flamewar starting. You have won the "trollmeister"
    award for this.
    dj_nme, Jul 8, 2007
  8. SelfImporantName

    ASAAR Guest

    Don't expect a rational reply. SelfImporantName is, after all,
    just another of the sock puppets also pushing Photoline 32 and the
    Russian CHDK hack for Canon P&S cameras. Bosom buddies include
    Baumbadier, GoKiting. HokusPokus, , RockyZ,
    SayWhat, spamless, and X-Man. I don't know if there are any more,
    but there probably will be soon. What a waste of organic matter
    these infantile dweebs be. I wonder what it/they will be like when
    they grow out of the larval stage.
    ASAAR, Jul 8, 2007
  9. You look like one of those online psychotics that thinks everyone who doesn't
    support your point of view must all be the same person.

    Get your meds adjusted.
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
  10. Yet another dSLR supporter battling with your own self-doubts.

    They're everywhere lately. When you prove to them the faults in their chosen
    camera, they can do nothing but kick and scream at the rest of the world for
    their own bad choices in life rather than admit their own stupidity and
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
  11. SelfImporantName

    Mike Russell Guest

    LOL. ASAAR is right. You'll answer an insult but ignore an attempt to
    actually discuss your original point. My personal troll detector just
    pinned. Bye now.
    Mike Russell, Jul 8, 2007
  12. I addressed your comment in another reply. Do you think you are so important
    that you require a direct reply? Okay, here's what I said about your comment in
    another post in this thread:

    "The viewer not realizing this just accepts that distorted view of reality as
    normal. In fact, one reply here even claimed how proud they were of accepting a
    distorted view of reality as normal."

    That's all your comment was worth for a reply.
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
  13. SelfImporantName

    EdBancroft Guest

    Don't let the resident trolls pull you into their games S.I.M. it's
    fun watching them squirm and scream when they've been proven wrong
    again. Nice work. You're right, they're 100% wrong. Simple as that.
    EdBancroft, Jul 8, 2007
  14. SelfImporantName

    Mike Russell Guest

    You're bathing the guy in attention. Better to ignore him, if possible.
    Mike Russell, Jul 8, 2007
  15. SelfImporantName

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Your inability to manage an SLR doesn't make your P&S so great.
    Ray Fischer, Jul 8, 2007
  16. For all the "proved them wrong" people:

    Ever heard of "high speed sync"? Apparently no one in this
    thread has. Many DSLRs and especially external flashes
    have this feature, even my old Canon 10D has it; so does the
    Canon Rebel XT, and some older film bodies. Nikon F5 (film),
    D200, and other bodies support it. Its been around
    for years!

    In high speed sync mode, the flash fires many times
    during an exposure, even high high speed exposure faster
    than 1/1000 second, thus averaging out the slit problem
    of the focal plane shutter.

    Here is an explanation:

    I've used it and it works.
    You can use it at 1/8000 second!

    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Jul 8, 2007
  17. Yeah, let me call you about that the next time I want to limit all my sports
    shots to flash-photography only. I wonder if there's a flash unit bright enough
    to overpower the sunlight at a baseball field, or reach across that basketball
    court or football field while I set the f/stop so small as to not allow any
    ambient light to interfere. I wonder how many spectators and players it'll

    What a horseshit stop-gap measure.

    Read my other reply about the only time a dSLR is actually useful (i.e. in dimly
    lit rooms while using flash and for still-life arrangements). You obviously
    missed the obvious. But then of course you always miss the obvious, as evidenced
    by you still thinking that photography with a dSLR is the right answer.
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
  18. Thanks, but I've seen them pull this crap with others who were smarter than them
    many times. Nothing new. That's why they are known as the resident trolls. I
    read the group a lot, rarely post. I wonder how many others that are more
    intelligent than them avoid this group altogether because they've ran them off
    with their bullshit. No big deal. They'll learn, some day. Or not. Doesn't
    really matter, now does it. :)

    The only shame is that unsuspecting people that come here for valid advice have
    to listen to all their misinformation, and endlessly wade through their tomes of
    BS opinions. That's the only thing that I take exception with.
    SelfImporantName, Jul 8, 2007
  19. SelfImporantName wrote:

    +-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
    | PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
    | FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
    | | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
    | Thank you, | ( (_) )
    | Management | /`-vvv-'\
    +-------------------+ / \
    | | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
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    @[email protected]@[email protected] | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
    \||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
    \||/ | | | jgs (______Y______)
    Jürgen Exner, Jul 8, 2007
  20. I like your style, kid. Now get to work on the Zapruder film.
    Unclaimed Mysteries, Jul 8, 2007
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