939 or 754(?) pin CPU.

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Donald McTrevor, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. Donald McTrevor

    Fakename Guest

    $100 saved? Not likely. Most people don't spend money on fancy cases
    if don't have to. So the cost of a new case is around $30-50. I'm in
    Canada and if you want me to I can plaster my next response with links
    to cases, with power supply's, for way less than $100, available locally.

    I think it's easier to sell a whole/working PC than parts. So you're
    going to have a pile of parts laying around too. If you sell them piece
    by piece you'll probably spend more time selling them than you would a
    working tower. Time has a value too.

    $100 saved? Not likely. You might save a little bit of cash, but it
    will be a lot more trouble. For most users out there it's not worth it.
     
    Fakename, Jul 21, 2005
    #61
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  2. Donald McTrevor

    kony Guest

    Yes you can buy junk parts in Canada as well as elsewhere.
    Exactly my point!

    It's a poor compromise to buy crap then keep throwing it
    away or rebuying similar crap instead of nice case. Perhaps
    a few years ago you could build a decent system with a
    cheaper case, but anything fairly higher-end these days will
    make it prudent to spend at least $60 on the power supply
    alone if not more.


    Perhaps it is for you. Nobody else is in your shoes so do
    whatever works best for _you_.
    Who said I needed to sell all those little pieces? Most of
    'em don't have much value anyway. Directron is selling
    whole older systems for $69 plus shipping. Additionally,
    it's often good to have some spare parts around for
    troubleshooting, or minimizing downtime if/when a system
    fails.
    I'm really sorry you don't agree but frankly I don't care
    one way or the other. You must be building low-end boxes
    and not building very many at that, else a source of spare
    parts would be an obvious asset.

    So, year after year you never have a good system. Fine by
    me.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2005
    #62
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  3. Donald McTrevor

    jona Guest

    LOL.
    I started with a 286 and then skipped the following:
    386, P1 and P3. The 'time' is not yet right to update
    up from my current P4, 2.4 .... I think.
     
    jona, Jul 21, 2005
    #63
  4. Donald McTrevor

    CBFalconer Guest

    I just went from a 486/80 64 MB to a P3/450 128 MB. The cost was
    minimal, the speedup about 10 to 20, and noticeable. :) The 486
    is still here for backup and to run the 5 inch floppies. The only
    thing I really need now is ECC memory at a reasonable price.
     
    CBFalconer, Jul 22, 2005
    #64
  5. Donald McTrevor

    Fakename Guest

    The quality of the parts has little to nothing to do with the point I'm
    making. The most expensive, high quality computer parts will still be
    obselete in 3-5 years. And when that happens it will be cheaper,
    overall, to purchase a new machine than to upgrade all of the parts.
     
    Fakename, Jul 22, 2005
    #65
  6. Donald McTrevor

    kony Guest


    Yes I'm aware of your argument, and it only files if one is
    buying OEM systems. Otherwise it completely defies logic to
    think that buying ALL the parts is cheaper than buying (ALL
    the parts) - (what you already have).
     
    kony, Jul 22, 2005
    #66
  7. Donald McTrevor

    Fakename Guest

    Well then you will agree that my advice is the most prudent course of
    action for the majority of users because the majority of users buy OEM
    computers, right?
     
    Fakename, Jul 22, 2005
    #67
  8. Donald McTrevor

    kony Guest

    Most of the time, yes. Then again, it's still not
    necessarily so, depending on the variables of the system.
    However such a task would typically be less prudent for the
    hands-off OEM typical buyers, as they're generally not as
    aware of the issues going into construction nor as likely to
    realize just how standard (or not) that OEM box is.
     
    kony, Jul 23, 2005
    #68
  9. Donald McTrevor

    Fakename Guest

    I'm going to take that as a yes.
     
    Fakename, Jul 24, 2005
    #69
  10. Donald McTrevor

    kony Guest


    So long as you're a happy camper?
     
    kony, Jul 24, 2005
    #70
  11. Hi,
    This is a bit of a late response but here is my motherboard which I found
    some time ago after much searching.

    http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/850.htm
    *********************
    This motherboard can accommodate the following CPUs:

    Intel P54C/P55C: 75 - 233 MHz
    Cyrix 6X86/6X86L, PR120+ - PR166+
    Cyrix 6X86MX, PR133+ - PR233+
    Cyrix MII: 266 - 300 MHz
    IDT C6: 150 - 200 MHz
    AMD K5
    AMD K6: 266 MHz
    AMD K6-2: 300 - 333 MHz
    ****************************
    I have the Cyrix MII 300 so it looks lilke the 'end of the road' for
    my mobo, although I guess it could take the AMD K6 333Mhz,
    but if that is just an 11% increase.
    Well it says Cyrix MII 300 in the manual but on control panel/system
    it says 6X86MX(tm).
    Anyway using a utility called AIDA32 it says
    "CPU Type Cyrix 6x86MX/MII, 225 MHz PR300"
    so I am a little unsure as to precisely what I have got as I find it
    a bit confusing, perhaps some wise bod could put me straight as
    to what I have got and whether there is a worthwhile upgrade
    for me.
    I am thinking that if I have a 225Mhz CPU then the AMD K6-2 333Mhz
    might be a worthwhile upgrade? Its about 50% faster CPU speed anyway
    which I think would be worthwhile as I expect AMD K6 processors are
    ten a penny on ebay.

    Anyway here is the rest of the info from the AIDA32 program, but this
    bit "CPU Manufacturer
    Company Name VIA Technologies, Inc.
    Product Information http://www.via.com.tw/en/viac3/c3.jsp"
    adds more confusion cos it says its a VIA ????

    Anyway I will report back later with more info, I am going to have
    a look at the jumper settings which should be helpful and I will
    also try and get a look at the CPU which may be a problem as I think
    there is a big fan/cooler stuck on top of it and I am not sure if I will
    be able to take it off, or more importantly put it back on again!!!
    Any help much appreciated!!
    Here are some links I was looking at but I am not sure which
    processor is mine, there is not much info on them there either
    for the Cyrix but there are benchmarks ratings for the AMD so
    I can't compare the easilly.

    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/CPU.html

    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/6x86/index.html

    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/MII/index.html



    ********* Rest of AIDA32 info **************

    CPU Properties
    CPU Type Cyrix 6x86MX/MII, 225 MHz PR300
    L1 Cache 64 KB
    L2 Cache 0

    CPU Physical Info
    Package Type 296 Pin PGA
    Package Size 4.95 cm x 4.95 cm
    Transistors 6.5 million
    Process Technology 5M, 0.35 um, CMOS
    Die Size 197 mm2
    Core Voltage 2.9 V
    I/O Voltage 3.3 V
    Typical Power 10.6 - 18.3 W (depending on clock speed)
    Maximum Power 17.6 - 27.9 W (depending on clock speed)

    CPU Manufacturer
    Company Name VIA Technologies, Inc.
    Product Information http://www.via.com.tw/en/viac3/c3.jsp

    CPU Utilization
    CPU #1 6 %

    Problems & Suggestions
    Problem No CPU L2 cache found. This may cause performance penalty.

    ********* Rest of AIDA32 info END **************
     
    Donald McTrevor, Jul 28, 2005
    #71
  12. Here is some info I found which may or may not make things clearer!!
    I am trying to compare the cyrix MII with theAMD K6 but I am finding
    it hard to find the info, seems the Cyrix may be faster at the same CPU
    speed.
    Very confusing.

    http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...gen.htm+Cyrix+6x86MX/MII,+225+MHz+PR300&hl=en



    Cyrix 6X86MX (MII)



    Cyrix also has a high performance chip, placed between 5th and 6th
    generation. It was announced as M2, but introduced on May 30, 1997 the name
    became 6X86MX. Later it has been named MII again. There have always been
    some confusion about the identification of the Cyrix CPUs.

    This 6X86MX chip is compatible with the Pentium MMX. This gives additional
    possibilities to assemble PCs on ordinary Socket 7 motherboards.

    The 6X86MX has 64 KB internal L1 cache, which is very impressive. Cyrix also
    utilize technologies which are not found in Pentium MMX. These chips are
    named to compare them with genuine Pentiums, although their internal clock
    speed is lower than corresponding Intel processors.

    The 6x86MX is unique compared to the other 6. generation CPUs (Pentium II
    and Pro and K6) since it does not work upon a RISC kernel. 6x86MX executes
    the original CISC instructions as does the Pentium MMX.

    The 6x86MX has plenty of internal registers:



    CPU Number of 32 bit
    CPU registers
    Pentium MMX 8
    6x86MX 32
    Pentium Pro 40
    K6 48



    The 6x86MX has - as all processors from Cyrix - a problem concerning the FPU
    unit. However, using standard office applications, this is of no concern.

    6X86MX Internal speed External speed
    PR166 150 MHz 60 MHz
    PR200 166 MHz 66 MHz
    PR233 188 MHz 75 MHz
    PR266 225 MHz 75 MHz
    PR300 233 MHz 66 MHz
    PR333 255 MHz 83 MHz
    PR350 300 MHz 100 MHz



    The 6X86MX is quite a powerful chip - on the paper. However I do not think,
    that they always sell that well. There are problems with the supply of them,
    and also the system bus speed causes troubles. It is difficult to find
    motherboards that accepts these speeds. Hopefully this will change. They
    also lack good FPU and MMX performance, and they do not incorporate the
    3DNow! technology.

    It is evident that Cyrix intends to continue this line of processors, and
    this definitely is a positive trend. Intel gets competition, and it keeps
    the well tested and inexpensive Socket 7 motherboards in the market.

    The 6x86MX processor is produced by National/Cyrix as well as by IBM. The
    architecture is the same, but the chips are built at different plants.

    On April 14, 1998 the Cyrix MII (M-two) version was launched. From what I
    understand it is exactly the same chip as the 6X86MX just running at higher
    clock frequencies.

    The top models were in June 1998:



    CPU Cyrix MII/300 IBM PR333
    Technology 0.35 micron Semi 0.25 micron
    Possible clock
    speeds 3.5 X 66 MHz = 233 MHz
    3.0 X 75 MHz = 225 MHz 4.0 X 66 MHz = 266 MHz
    3,5 X 75 MHz = 263 MHz
    3.0 X 83 MHz = 250 MHz



    IBM uses a new technology for their PR333 chip. It is patented and called
    Flip-Chip. The die is soldered directly to the ceramic casing and this
    causes less induction. IBM is preparing for true 0.25 micron processing
    technology later this year, which will increase the external clock speed to
    100 MHz.

    Later we shall see the next Cyrix with IBM's copper technology, which will
    give a new performance boost. They expect PR350 and PR400 models before 1999
    using the Super7 motherboard standards.

    In 1999 we should have the new 3rd generation of the 6X86MX (code name
    Jalapeno). This CPU will be named MXi, and it will come in PR350 and PR400
    flavors. The MXi is Socket 7 compatible, but it has an improved core running
    a 133 MHz system bus. It also should include new 3D instructions (3DNow!)
    and improved FPU..

    Later Cyrix probably will build Pentium II compatible CPUs using the Slot 1
    design, which they have license to produce.






     
    Donald McTrevor, Jul 28, 2005
    #72
  13. Donald McTrevor

    kony Guest

    According to the linked picture, your board has a switching
    regulation circuit. This is important for having margin to
    run faster CPUs. Unfortunately the SIS chipset isn't so
    fast for that era and didn't support 100MHz FSB, BUT you can
    still run a K6-2/400! Any newer K6-2 (400MHz and up should
    be chosen, doesn't have to be "400", could be 450, 500, 533,
    regardless of the fact that it'd spec'd for 100MHz FSB.
    When your board is set to 2X CPU mulitplier, the newer K6-2
    CPUs will interpret it as a 6X multiplier automatically, so
    you'd have 6 x 66.6MHz = 400MHz. That is the best choice
    for your motherboard. Set it to 2.2V vcore. The older
    K6-2/400 models used 2.4V, seek one with 2.2V spec. Just
    about any 500-533 MHz part should run ok with 2.2V @ 400MHz.

    They only spec'd the CPUs available at time of writing and
    that supported the 66MHz FSB. Fortunately AMD designed
    later K6-2 to enable the 6X multipler using same mulitplier
    selection pins so no support for it is necessary on any
    motherboard. Since your board mentions *any* K6-2 support,
    all of them would work. It is less likely a K6-3 would
    work, it is possible but probably not work the hassle of
    trying it and failing.
    Cyrix CPUs made decent business systems because they had
    dismal floating point performance but far at integers. Even
    so, the K6-2 @ 400 is a significant upgrade. The real
    question is whether it's worth the bother to do the upgrade
    today since modern systems are SO much faster. Only you can
    make that call.
     
    kony, Jul 29, 2005
    #73
  14. True, the max for me is a K6-2 at 333 anyway.
    It would only cost ~£5-£10 and I am not too bothered about
    the 'bother' of upgrading as I would learn something from the
    experience anyway. (Basically I would rather fry this system than
    a brand new one!!).
    Also a CPU fits through the letter box easier than a new PC!
     
    Donald McTrevor, Jul 29, 2005
    #74
  15. Donald McTrevor

    kony Guest

    You seem to have completely missed the point of my entire
    post- your max is not 333, it's 400. In fact you could even
    try to run it at 6 x 75Mhz but I dont' remember if that
    particular SIS chipset is the one that supported a FSB/2.5
    PCI divider, which would allow keeping PCI bus at 30MHz when
    FSB was at 75... so I only recommended the known
    non-overclocked speed.
    I recommend installing a door.
     
    kony, Jul 29, 2005
    #75
  16. This any help?
    http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/850.htm
    http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/850-cpu.htm
    And someone to open it no doubt.
     
    Donald McTrevor, Jul 29, 2005
    #76
  17. Donald McTrevor

    kony Guest

    Perhaps, the link suggests JP18 1-2 setting would use async
    clock to keep PCI bus in spec. I would hesitantly use it
    though, backing up data before trying it, and being sure to
    set it to 1-2 IF you did try to use 75MHz FSB.

    or a request to leave package at the shipper's pick up
    center.
     
    kony, Jul 29, 2005
    #77
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