50mm pictures with D300

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Sosumi, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    I have to agree with you Chris. After all, we speak of the differing
    perspectives of wide-angle and telephoto lenses. If distance were the key,
    then the perspectives would be the same with any angle of view, but it
    isn't.

    Change lenses but not distance, and perspective changes. Therefore,
    distance equals perspective? Sorry, it just does not compute.

    Pondering,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
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  2. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Position is the only factor that dictates perspective.

    Direction of view is meaningless, as perspective is evident within a
    singular image and it matters not where the camera is pointing.....
    rotate the camera around a constant point (nodal) and it is only the
    image content that changes, not the perspective.... that's why
    stitched panos work.

    As for face stretching at the extreme wide.... as I stated earlier,
    that is distortion and it will vary from lens design to lens design
    and is not associated with perspective.


    Now, this is an interesting discussion. And, it's giving me a lot to think
    about.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the discussion can be summed up as follows:

    Rusty (I believe that that is pixelpix's name) says that perspective is a
    function of distance from the camera to the most identifiable part of the
    subject, and nothing else.

    Chris thinks that perspective is the relationship of all of the components
    of the image, as determined by the position of the camera, the direction it
    is pointing, and the angle of view of the lens mounted on it.

    Am I accurately summarizing what you fellows have stated?

    Pondering,
    Dudley
    of

    Note:
    I've changed the subject to "Perspectives" in order to cut ties with other
    facets of the previous discussion. I hope this is alright with you.
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
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  3. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Say no more. Smile...

    More Sympathetic,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  4. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Using your arbitrarily adopted definitions, how are you going to describe
    the process of enlarging the image using the digital zoom? "Hey, Mom! Look
    at me! Zoom in on this!" sounds so much better than: Hey, Mom! Look at
    me! Digitally isolate what I'm doing!" Doesn't it?

    I didn't just introduce it because I can't defend my point. I introduced it
    to illustrate that there are differring ways to magnify, or zoom in on, an
    object. And, as technology advances, there will be even more. Our language
    will have to change in order to adapt. What are you going to do when images
    are automatically enhanced by a camera's on-board processor before we have a
    chance to look at them. What terminology will we use then?

    I would just like to know where the term zoom is so rigidly defined?

    Looking Forward,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  5. Most were. The number of Pros in this NG was always small, and has dwindled.
     
    John McWilliams, Jan 23, 2008
  6. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    Perspective is entirely a matter of distance to subject.
    Focal length is angle of view.
    At a given subject distance, different focal lengths with different
    angles of view will have exactly the same perspective.
    At a different subject distance, those lenses will have the same
    different perspective.

    <http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-lenses.htm>

    Many will say that focal length also determines the perspective of an
    image, but strictly speaking, perspective only changes with one's
    location relative to their subject. If one tries to achieve the same
    subjects filling the frame with both a wide angle and telephoto lens,
    then perspective does indeed change because one is forced to move
    closer or further from their subject. For these scenarios only, the
    wide angle lens exaggerates or stretches perspective, whereas the
    telephoto lens compresses or flattens perspective.

    Perspective control can be a powerful compositional tool in
    photography, and often determines one's choice in focal length (when
    one can photograph from any position). ...
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
  7. Huh? Going from "0" to "0" isn't exactly called or considered dwindling.




    Rita
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Jan 23, 2008
  8. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    Perspective is simply the relationship of objects closer and farther
    away; i.e., at different distances. It's why objects farther away look
    smaller, and how much smaller is what perspective is all about. It is
    not the overall image and/or the angle of view.

    <http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Optical/Perspective_01.htm>

    If you photograph a subject with a tele lens and want it to have the
    same size on the film or sensor when photographing it with a wide
    angle lens, you would have to move closer to the subject. Because
    this would cause the perspective to change, lenses with different
    focal lengths are said to "have" a different perspective. Note
    however that changing the focal length without changing the subject
    distance will not change perspective, ...
    There is always a subject.
    You cannot change perspective without changing distance to subject.
    These things have nothing to do with perspective.

    The simple test is to photograph the same portrait with a wide angle
    lens and with a telephoto lens at the same image magnification
    (different subject distance), and note the difference in perspective
    (e.g., enlarged nose in the wide angle shot). When photographed at the
    same distance and cropped to match, the images and thus the perspective
    are identical. Again, you simply cannot change perspective without
    changing distance to subject, nohow, noway.
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
  9. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    Correct. Nicely stated.
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
  10. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    He's a troll. Best not to feed him.
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
  11. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    That's unfortunate. A healthy dialogue between a few pros with a bit of
    time to spare and newbies eager to learn would benefit everyone.

    There's nothing like trying to write down the process one goes through when
    on the job to help crystalize in the mind the important conciderations that
    contribute to success.

    Interested,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  12. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    What about barrel diameter and the shape of lens elements? Would you say
    that they impact either perspective, angle of view or magnification?

    Curious,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  13. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    The claimed similarity does not exist. Moving changes perspective.
    Zooming does not. While moving does change subject magnification, so
    does cropping, so by your logic, cropping is an analogy to zooming and
    to moving. That's a path to confusing madness.
    Not really, and insulting people doesn't make your argument any more
    persuasive.
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
  14. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    What about changing the shape of the lens elements? For example, what if
    you use a regular lens and then a copy lens of the same focal length?
    (hint, the copy lens has flatter elements)

    Curious,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  15. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    What about lens design? For instance, if you have two 300mm lenses, one is
    a regular lens with in-line lens elements while the other is a reflex lens.
    In the regular lens, the barrel diameter is only large enough to permit the
    passage of sufficient light at the shortest focal lenth to cover the sensor
    / film plane, but the reflex lens has a considerably larger diameter with a
    corresponding flatter set of outside elements. Will the perspective of the
    two lenses be the same at the same focal length?

    Just Curious,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  16. Sosumi

    Dayrl Guest

    Dude, you are a complete ass. Quit whining about someone's posting style
    and get on with your so called life.
     
    Dayrl, Jan 23, 2008
  17. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    Wrong! It is camera position and distance to EVERY component of the
    image & how those components relate to each other.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 23, 2008
  18. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    Perhaps you need a more powerful processor!
     
    PixelPix, Jan 23, 2008
  19. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    I believe the term you are looking for is "crop". Surely even an old
    blind photographer has heard of it?

    Cropping does not change perspective BTW..... it will have the save
    perspective as the original because camera position did not change.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 23, 2008
  20. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    Repeat after me....

    Perspective is governed by camera position only.....
    Perspective is governed by camera position only.....
    Perspective is governed by camera position only.....
     
    PixelPix, Jan 23, 2008
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