50mm pictures with D300

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Sosumi, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Stop feeling sorry for yourself and trying to play on your disability.Stop projecting your discrimination on others is more like it.

    I am quite happy with my life. I have a beautiful wife, 3 wonderful
    children (one who is graduating from high school this year), I can take my
    dog into restaurants wherever I like, I've been able to retire early on a
    disability pension, and I have all the time I want to pursue my hobby. I've
    been back-stage with groups you can only dream of, and chatted with
    superstars, including Sir Bob Geldorf, the man who organized Band Aid, Live
    Aid, etc. In my younger days, I raced my custom Mustang, and have probably
    travelled way more than you will ever be able to dream of((usually on
    someone else's dime), so why wouldn't I be happy.

    But, because my usenet quoting is not up to your standards, and I try to
    explain why, you project your fascist, discriminatory mindset towards me and
    twist it around and try to portray me as the offender?

    John, you really are one screwed up dude. Have you thought of therapy?

    Aren't you concerned about what an ass you are appearing to others?

    Really Getting Concerned,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
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  2. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Thank you, Lord,
    Dudley

    But, John, that's what you said last night? Grin...
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
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  3. With respect to popular colloquial and possibly impure uses of the
    term "perspective", lots more than 2% of camera owners will look at a
    very wide angle view of a street scene and happily discuss whether or
    not they like the weird perspective of very wide angle lenses. I'd
    guess that at least a good majority of photographers will find nothing
    wrong or odd about such a remark.

    Since the subject of the scene, the street, varies in distance across
    the image from several yards to several dozen yards, they won't
    understand talk about "distance to subject" as creating the
    perspective effects in the image. They will however easily and
    naturally understand the idea that angle of view is what creates the
    perspective effect. The lens is after all called a "wide angle lens".
    Because it's their job get it right, especially in those cases where
    most people don't.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 23, 2008
  4. Of course they do. Now look at the perspective effects visible near
    the edges of the 28mm view. You'll notice a tendency for balls to look
    elliptical and faces to look oddly stretched out, for example. That's
    a perspective effect that you get with 28mm lenses and you can't
    produce with a 300mm lens, no matter how hard you try. You'll get the
    effect more exaggeratedly with an 18mm lens. (I'm presuming we're
    talking about these focal lengths with ref to 35mm full size image
    sensing planes.)
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 23, 2008
  5. Ok.

    Zooming is only taken by most people to refer to magnification when
    we're talking about telephoto zooms. But not when we're talking about
    wide angle zooms. In that case most people think what you're zooming
    is the angle.

    Now consider a lens which zooms between wide angle and telephoto. Is
    there some machinery in the lens that switches from zooming angle to
    zooming magnification at some point? No, the zoom does the same thing
    all the way through its zoom range, as can be easily verified by
    looking through it and zooming. So logically speaking in the most
    generic sense magnification isn't what zooms do.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 23, 2008
  6. Well obviously if the shot needs an external flash you need a camera
    which can control an external flash. And if you're on the edge of the
    crowd you need a higher view to see over the heads of those in front
    of you. So you need a camera with movable live view LCD so that you
    can hold it high over your head and still compose the image.

    Although a few of the latest DSLRs are beginning to offer movable live
    view LCD screens, having that and external flash is still probably
    available on more P&S than DSLR models. The professional chooses the
    best camera for the job.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 23, 2008
  7. In cases where there is a subject at a specific distance, and well
    behind it another object, of course there are dramatic differences
    visible. But not all images have a subject at a clearly identifiable
    distance, or those kinds of spatial relationships, yet differences in
    perspective are still visible and important. Which makes it clear that
    if there is a single underlying concept behind these perspective
    differences, it can't be distance to subject.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 23, 2008
  8. That is exactly my point. The perspective of an image has to with the
    relationships between all of the things in the entire image. That is
    determined by three things, the position of the camera, where it's
    pointing, and the subtended angle of view. Note that I said "position"
    of the camera. That determines its spatial relationship to everything
    in the image. "Distance to subject" doesn't work when the subject has
    no clearly identifiable distance or is multiple. You can also change
    perspective of the subject without changing distance, as in the case
    where you move a face from the centre of a wide angle view to the edge
    and it gets oddly stretched out.

    The three necessary and sufficient determinants of simple rectilinear
    image perspective are position, direction of view, and subtended angle
    of view.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 23, 2008
  9. What makes something an analogy is having some points of
    similarity. There are also differences. The existence of the
    differences is what makes it an analogy rather than an equation or
    identity. The differences don't make it invalid. An analogy is invalid
    when it claims a similarity which doess not exist, not the inevitable
    fact that there are also differences where the analogy ceases to hold.

    In this case the claimed similarity exists. Therefore it is an
    analogy. You may therefore logically argue that it is a poor analogy,
    but not that it is an invalid analogy.

    As I said, the concept of "analogy" is a bit complicated for this
    newsgroup :)
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 23, 2008
  10. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    No, these are distortion effects and they will vary from lens to lens
    depending optical design and quality. ....they are not associated
    with perspective.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 23, 2008
  11. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    Position is the only factor that dictates perspective.

    Direction of view is meaningless, as perspective is evident within a
    singular image and it matters not where the camera is pointing.....
    rotate the camera around a constant point (nodal) and it is only the
    image content that changes, not the perspective.... that's why
    stitched panos work.

    As for face stretching at the extreme wide.... as I stated earlier,
    that is distortion and it will vary from lens design to lens design
    and is not associated with perspective.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 23, 2008
  12. In John's defense he does have a web page about 28.8K modems.





    Rita
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Jan 23, 2008
  13. WOW! That brings back memories! I remember spanking Rod (Corncob) Speed
    many years ago in the SCSI group. I'm surprised he's still alive after all
    the turpentine soaked corncobs he was shoving up his ass. I hope he's doing
    well.




    Rita
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Jan 23, 2008
  14. Tony, I see you've never been down on the plantation or in the inner-city
    for that matter? Trust me, they are called "planter's warts" in the hood.
    The term "plantar" is just the politically correct version of a
    sharecropper's nightmare.





    Rita
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Jan 23, 2008
  15. :)
    Rod Speed is still around, and if his past history in aus.dvd (actually most
    of the aus newsgroups) is anything to go by, he is still shoving those turps
    soaked corncobs up his arse LOL
     
    Atheist Chaplain, Jan 23, 2008
  16. Whilst they will vary because of lens imperfections, they are actually
    associated with projecting a wide taking angle with a rectilinear
    projection (as opposed to, for example, a spherical projection).

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 23, 2008
  17. Sosumi

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    That's correct. Now duplicte that with a fixed focal length lens.
    We're not talking about any of that BS. You've just introduced it because
    you can't support your position in any way shape or form.
    Thanks, but I'm an older punk, too. And the definition of a zoom isn't mine,
    any more than the definition of the words "moron," "idiot," or "imbecile"
    were mine, either. A zoom is a zoom is a zoom. A fixed focal length lens is
    what it is and the twain shall never meet.
    Had one, thanks.
     
    Kinon O'Cann, Jan 23, 2008
  18. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Typical
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  19. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Aw, but Chris, the average camera owner doesn't shoot for wide angle
    effects.

    In fact, I'm guessing that the average camera owner doesn't even like wide
    angle effects. "Little Lillian looks sooo silly with a big nose and scrawny
    body."

    So, even with wide angle lens, most people are still looking at image size.
    And, they watch to see if their little darling is filling the screen the way
    they want him or her too, whether the jewel of their life looks natural, and
    if not, they zoom in or out accordingly.

    Once again, you are referring to the minority of camera owners. And, my
    point still stands: if you are in the minority, and you are using a word in
    a way that is different from the majority, then are you not the one who is
    muddying the water?

    I think so,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
  20. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    But, the premis is that you talked your way into the job with minimal
    equipment, and you only have a Canon 'A' series point and shoot, no movable
    display. No external flash. How can you get the shot?

    Pros did it in the past without any of the bells and whistles of even the
    most basic modern point and shoot. They only had manual focus, slow shutter
    speeds and ISO's, no image stabilization, etc. Were they that much better
    than we are now?
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 23, 2008
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