50mm pictures with D300

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Sosumi, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    That's because zooming has nothing to do with perspective.
    (personally I think of it in terms of FOV)

    There is no flattening effect, perspective does not change (see
    above). Take a photo with a 28mm.... from the same camera position
    now take a section of that original photo using a 300mm. Print the
    300mm..... now print the 28mm at a size that will overlay the 300mm.
    What happens? They match perfectly!

    No the "academic purists" don't think that at all.... see above.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 22, 2008
    #61
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  2. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Have you used or heard the term "hot water heater"? Why would you
    need to heat water that is already hot? And yet 98% of water heater
    users refer to the water heater as a "hot water heater."

    I hope the power of analogy is not lost on you. :)

    Have you heard of logical falacies, John?

    It seems that the power of logic is lost on you.

    I notice that you didn't have a rebuttal.

    Somewhat Amused,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 22, 2008
    #62
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  3. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    By the way, does your "hot water heater" let your hot water become "cold"
    water before it heats it?

    No, your "hot water heater" heats your hot water so that it doesn't become
    cold. If it allowed water to become like ice, would not you call a repair
    person?

    Like I said, John, have you heard of logic?

    Even More Amused,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 22, 2008
    #63
  4. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    And here we thought it was just plain old bullshit.
    Live and learn I guess.
     
    John Navas, Jan 22, 2008
    #64
  5. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    That explains it then. :)
     
    John Navas, Jan 22, 2008
    #65
  6. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    You academic types must really feel insecure.

    A simple post with a simple comment, and a couple of know-it-all jerks take
    it upon themselves to teach the world a lesson.

    Face it guys, you don't have a monopoly on how words are used in the
    English, or any other language. When I here the street slang, even net
    slang like OP, my skin crawls, but I don't try to correct somebody else's
    word usage. There are much more important items on my agenda, like for
    instance the idiot who started this whole thing by making fun of another
    poster for using a word in a way that didn't fit his particular concept of
    how it should be used.

    If you were the sharpest tools in the shed, I might understand it, but
    you've already said some really stupid things that have been totally shot
    down, but you just don't learn.

    If you guys would put the same amount of effort into writing a real wrong in
    the world, maybe you'd realize just how trivial you are sounding.

    The world is not going to end if someone "zooms with their feet."

    Really Amused,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 22, 2008
    #66
  7. Sosumi

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    Not the whole world, just you and fat-ass.
    Hey, it's not my fault she has an ass the size of Jupiter. Nor is it my
    fault she doesn't know what "zooming" actually means. It is your fault that
    you haven't learned anything.
    I don't need to learn what I already know. You need to learn. And if I'm not
    the "sharpest tool" that would make you a slege hammer.
    And this reply is different.....how?
     
    Kinon O'Cann, Jan 22, 2008
    #67
  8. Sosumi

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    Then say it that way. Defining that action as "foot-zooming" shows a total
    lack of understanding of how the process actually works, and speaks volumes
    about the poster.

    Now, the question: what does the word "zooming" mean to you? (in relation to
    photography)
     
    Kinon O'Cann, Jan 22, 2008
    #68
  9. Sosumi

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    Ugh. Sorry, I didn't know you had that problem, too. Geez. Warts and a huge
    ass.
     
    Kinon O'Cann, Jan 22, 2008
    #69
  10. Sosumi

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    So why do you own an 85mm lens? Why not just get a 35mm lens and "foot-zoom"
    your way closer to your subject?

    Bonehead...
     
    Kinon O'Cann, Jan 22, 2008
    #70
  11. Sosumi

    Sosumi Guest

    I really don't think you know what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure
    Mr.Adams didn't even have more lenses in the beginning of his career, in the
    first place. In the second place, I understand what he was saying perfectly.
    Did you ever read something about tele or zoomlenses? So that is ruled out
    then.
    Leaves the only possible explanation: he meant move your feet in *any*
    direction to get the shot. And I mean 3 dimensions. I'm sure he climbed on a
    rock or something else to get in the right position for a given shot.
    Unless he also had a lens that could move up and down ;-)

    A while back a gentleman in this group told about his wife who always seemed
    to get better shots than him. He explained that she took photography classes
    in highschool, where they handed her a "box" without wide angle zoom or
    tele. Assigned to frame and shoot.
    He said that this probably laid the solid foundation for her ability to make
    better compositions.

    I've seen people take amazing good pictures with a simple camera, without
    any other than standard lenses. How else would they zoom other then with
    their feet?
    Portrait or landscape orientation is also done by hand, not by lens. Big
    part of the framing.
     
    Sosumi, Jan 22, 2008
    #71
  12. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    The irony here is that my 50 mm lens is easily the least used lens in my
    inventory. Likewise 50 mm (eff) focal length on my super-zoom compact.
    My most often used fixed focal length lenses are 28 and 100 mm.
     
    John Navas, Jan 22, 2008
    #72
  13. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    Beaumont Newhall narrated Larry Dawson's 1957 film, Ansel Adams,
    Photographer, and described Adams's photographic gear:

    "...A fine craftsman employs different tools for different purposes.
    Item: one 8 x 10 view camera, 20 holders, 4 lenses -- 1 Cooke
    Convertible, 1 ten-inch Wide Field Ektar, 1 9-inch Dagor, one
    6-3/4-inch Wollensak wide angle. Item: one 7 x 17 special panorama
    camera with a Protar 13-1/2-inch lens and five holders. Item: one 4 x
    5 view camera, 6 lenses -- 12-inch Collinear, 8-1/2 Apo[chromatic]
    Lentar, 9-1/4 Apo[chromatic] Tessar, 4-inch Wide Field Ektar,
    Dallmeyer [...] telephoto.

    "Item: One Hasselblad camera outfit with 38, 60, 80, 135, & 200
    millimeter lenses. Item: One Koniflex 35 millimeter camera. Item: 2
    Polaroid cameras. Item: 3 exposure meters. One SEI, and two Westons
    -- in case he drops one.

    "Item: Filters for each camera. K1, K2, minus blue, G, X1, A, C5 &B,
    F, 85B, 85C, light balancing, series 81 and 82. Two tripods: one
    light, one heavy. Lens brush, stopwatch, level, thermometer, focusing
    magnifier, focusing cloth, hyperlight strobe portrait outfit, 200
    feet of cable, special storage box for film.

    [Ansel's car (a Cadillac) with platform pulls away from camera.]

    "Item: One ancient, eight-passenger limousine with 5 x 9-foot camera
    platform on top."

    Apology accepted.
     
    John Navas, Jan 22, 2008
    #73
  14. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    It's interesting that, if you talk to 98% of the photographers and camera
    That's because zooming has nothing to do with perspective.
    (personally I think of it in terms of FOV)

    There is no flattening effect, perspective does not change (see
    above).
    See Below.

    Take a photo with a 28mm.... from the same camera position
    now take a section of that original photo using a 300mm. Print the
    300mm..... now print the 28mm at a size that will overlay the 300mm.
    What happens? They match perfectly!

    I think your eyes are worse than mind, and Ive only got 2% vision. See
    Below.


    No the "academic purists" don't think that at all.... see above.

    You're wrong, and so am I. The academics I've talked to do, I've just
    mistaken you folks for academics. See Below.




    Here's a section from an article you might want to check out, and I can
    point you to about another 60, if you want.

    FOCAL-LENGTH AND PERSPECTIVE
    There's a bit more about the focal length than just the coverage of a
    certain angle
    of view - there's always distinct effect on the relationship between the
    objects
    within a scene.
    All picture by Michael Wagner.
    Let's have a look at a relatively wide focal lenght first: 28mm. The
    following image
    samples show 4 trees with an equal distance between neighbour trees. At the
    wide
    setting it seems that this distance actually increases dramatically towards
    the foreground
    (exponential behaviour of the distance). It other words: the tree to the
    left seems
    to be totally seperated from the rest of the gang. The background seems to
    be far
    in the distance.
    The next picture has a more natural view at about 50mm. The perspective is
    obviously
    much less extreme. Due to our real life experience we can guess that the
    distance
    between the trees is roughly the same though the seperation is still visible
    (d^2
    behaviour).
    Now we have a 100mm lens. The trees seem to group here with a seemingly
    small distance
    between the trees. Compared to the previous sample the now enlarged
    background suddenly
    moved towards the main object. The scene is compressed now.
    At 200mm the effect increases even more. The group of trees seems to be
    virtually
    on the same distance plane. The background may be blurry (due to the small
    depth-of-field)
    but it seems to be just a few meters away. We speak of a "flat" perspective
    in this
    case.
    OBJECT ISOLATION
    An object can be seperated from its environment by various methods. E.g. you
    can
    use a very wide lens to sort the scene into distinctive layers. However,
    while you
    seperate the object the environment is still visible which may be disturbing
    because
    -say- the background is very ugly. Sometimes there's a workaround for this
    problem:
    we choose a very small depth-of-field so only the main subject is in focus
    while
    everything in front or behind the focus plane gets blurry and therefore
    virtually
    unimportant. Have a look at the 1st sample below. The blue marble to right
    right
    sucks the view from the first look. This is a natural reaction because the
    brain
    scans for the most contrasty subject first. The isolation of the object due
    to its
    "outstanding" sharpness is very significant here.
    by Michael Wagner
    Wanna see a perverse example ... Imagine to be in the Himalayas at a nice
    sunset
    and all you shoot is a beautiful rose ... The result is not all too bad I
    think!
    A small DOF is also a common technique for portrait photography. Usually it
    is quite
    difficult to find the right balance between people, that are chosen to be
    the main
    subject, and their environment. A sharp background is often distracting here
    so a
    large aperture should be used to focus the attention on the point of
    interest.
    by Randhir Amoganathan

    See Link:
    http://photoinf.com/General/Klaus_Schroiff/Perspective.htm

    Those of you who have been perpetuating the myth that focal length does not
    effect depth of field, or that the perspective is not flattened by a
    telephoto lens really must read from more sources.

    Hysterically Amused,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 22, 2008
    #74
  15. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest


    If you look at the samples you will notice that the CAMERA POSITION
    HAS CHANGED..... eg the distance to the objects within the image has
    been altered and IT IS THIS that has changed the perspective and the
    relationship between the objects and NOT the focal length.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 22, 2008
    #75
  16. Sosumi

    John Navas Guest

    You're wasting your time. I'm beginning to think he's a troll.
     
    John Navas, Jan 22, 2008
    #76
  17. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Because some people just know what they're doing and like to take a variety
    of pics with a variety of lenses in order to get a picture that satisfies
    their purpose. They aren't satisfied with the same old effects in every
    shot.

    They don't buy a multipurpose camera and expect it to do everything. And,
    they know that manual labour is by far the largest element of a successful
    shot.

    Chuckling,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 22, 2008
    #77
  18. Sosumi

    JimKramer Guest

    It appears that you also have difficulty using a news reader. I'm
    sorry you are confused and wrong; but other than as a very limited
    form of entertainment you have said nothing correctly.

    You seem to have a fundamental failure to understand the difference
    between perspective, magnification, focal length, optical zoom and the
    concept of "zooming with your feet" which is, weather you like it or
    not, changing your perspective and is not the equivalent of optically
    zooming.

    The post below from PixelPix clearly explains perspective. I hope you
    will read it and become somewhat educated.

    I would like to think that you are not the idiot that you appear to be
    from your posts, but I have been wrong before.

    Have a Happy Day,
    Jim
     
    JimKramer, Jan 22, 2008
    #78
  19. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    Perhaps. :-(

    "Watch out for that revolving door! ......What re-re-vol-vol-ving-
    ving-door-door?" lol
     
    PixelPix, Jan 22, 2008
    #79
  20. COOL! You're wasting your breath on John.




    Rita
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Jan 22, 2008
    #80
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