4th RFD: rec.photo.digital reorganization

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Thad, Sep 8, 2004.

  1. Thad

    Guest

    In news.groups Gisle Hannemyr <> wrote:

    > Should rangefinder and zlr material be on topic or not? I don't
    > care. I would vote for a "rec.photo.digital.slr" if discussions
    > about rangefinders and zlrs where included - and I would vote for a
    > "rec.photo.digital.slr" if they by charter are relegated to the
    > existing "catch-all" group ("rec.photo.digital") - and I would even
    > vote for a "rec.photo.digital.slr" charter that skirted the issue
    > entirely by not mentioning rangefinders and zlrs at all.


    > But I will vote /against/ the creation of two new zombie groups,
    > even if that stops "rec.photo.digital.slr" (which is a new group
    > I want and think merits creation) from being created.


    As far as I'm aware, the votes will be separate. I intend to vote YES
    to slr-systems and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist), NO
    to zlrs (because I don't think they need a new group) and abstain on
    P&S (which is the meat 'n potatoes of r.p.d.)

    Andrew.
     
    , Sep 13, 2004
    #61
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  2. Ken Tough wrote:
    >
    > Thad <> wrote:
    >
    > > REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    > >
    > >This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of
    > >the digital photography groups in the rec.photo.digital hierarchy.

    >
    > Is it possible to vote yes to the creation of a subset of these groups?


    Yez. You can vote Yes on some, No on others, and Abstain on
    still others. The votes will be counted separately.
    --
    This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
    I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
    and it bounces, a second try might work.
    However, please reply in newsgroup.
     
    Arthur L. Rubin, Sep 13, 2004
    #62
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  3. Thad

    Paul J Gans Guest

    Gisle Hannemyr <> wrote:
    >Paul J Gans <> writes:
    >> By the way, the more groups, the easier it is for spammers to get
    >> them all. It takes but a minute to put all the groups into the
    >> headers and then they get five groups for the effort of spamming
    >> one.


    >Yeah - but excessive crossposting is a sure sign of a spammer, a
    >cascader and a nutter - so just killing crossposts nets three types
    >of bozo for the price of one. That evens it out.
    >--


    I agree. I wish that folks creating newsgroup filters would
    also include a setting for killing posts sent to too many
    newsgroups.

    However, my personal skull-encased computer often simply
    deletes postings with too many newsgroups.


    But that was my negative on more groups. I also included
    what I thought were some positives as well.

    ---- Paul J. Gans
     
    Paul J Gans, Sep 13, 2004
    #63
  4. Lionel <> writes:

    > Kibo informs me that edward ohare
    > <> stated that:


    >>Hmmmm.... had a thought of when zooms for 35mm became decent that
    >>there were a bunch of people who stuck a 35-70 zoom on the front of
    >>their slr and never took it off. I believe there were some slrs that
    >>came standard with such a zoom.

    >
    > Yep. I'd guess that at least 3/4 of SLR owners have never removed the
    > generic zoom that they got with the camera. That said, those people
    > aren't all that likely to be talking about their camera on Usenet.


    I think this was especially true back before zoom point-and-shoots,
    when the *only* way to get anything beyond a single "normal" lens was
    the SLR. More recently, though, people mostly carry SLRs because they
    use features not found on other cameras, I think.
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 13, 2004
    #64
  5. Thad

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    David Dyer-Bennet <> wrote:

    > I think this was especially true back before zoom point-and-shoots,
    > when the *only* way to get anything beyond a single "normal" lens was
    > the SLR. More recently, though, people mostly carry SLRs because they
    > use features not found on other cameras, I think.


    Looking around at touristy areas these days, the only people who seem to
    have SLRs are the ones who are clearly pretty serious about it. Most
    people are using digicams -- and I'm actually quite surprised at the
    very large number of people using camera phones for tourist snaps.

    --
    Jeremy |
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Sep 13, 2004
    #65
  6. Thad

    Guest

    lid wrote:

    >and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)


    Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just wanted to
    point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    I'm trying to figure out what questions are going to be different between a
    digital rangefinder user and a zlr or a dslr user.
     
    , Sep 14, 2004
    #66
  7. Thad

    Klaas Guest

    After careful consideration, muttered:

    > In news.groups Gisle Hannemyr <> wrote:


    > NO to zlrs (because I don't think they need a new group)


    Traditionally, such an opinion is expressed by /not voting YES/, not
    /voting NO/. "NO" isn't supposed to mean "I don't think there is enough
    interest for a group".

    -Mike
     
    Klaas, Sep 14, 2004
    #67
  8. writes:
    > lid wrote:


    >>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)


    > Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just wanted to
    > point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp


    If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    it - does it /really/ exist?
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Sep 14, 2004
    #68
  9. "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    > writes:
    > > lid wrote:

    >
    > >>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)

    >
    > > Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just

    wanted to
    > > point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    > >
    > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    >
    > If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    > it - does it /really/ exist?


    It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that they were
    only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it doesn't exist after
    all.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Sep 14, 2004
    #69
  10. "David J. Littleboy" <> writes:
    > "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    >> writes:
    >>> lid wrote:


    >>>>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)


    >>> Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just
    >>> wanted to point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    >
    >> If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    >> it - does it /really/ exist?


    > It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that
    > they were only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it
    > doesn't exist after all.


    What does it cost in Tokyo? I saw in a magazine that the body was
    expected to be sold for the equivalent of US$ 3500 - but I haven't
    actually seen any of these for sale - with or without a real price
    attached to it.
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Sep 14, 2004
    #70
  11. "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    > "David J. Littleboy" <> writes:
    > > "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:

    >
    > >>> Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just
    > >>> wanted to point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    > >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    > >
    > >> If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    > >> it - does it /really/ exist?

    >
    > > It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that
    > > they were only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it
    > > doesn't exist after all.

    >
    > What does it cost in Tokyo? I saw in a magazine that the body was
    > expected to be sold for the equivalent of US$ 3500 - but I haven't
    > actually seen any of these for sale - with or without a real price
    > attached to it.


    Maybe not quite that much, but that's the ballpark.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Sep 14, 2004
    #71
  12. Thad

    Dave Guest

    "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message news:<ci697e$9a1$>...
    > "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    > > writes:
    > > > lid wrote:

    >
    > > >>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)

    >
    > > > Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just

    > wanted to
    > > > point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    > > >
    > > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    > >
    > > If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    > > it - does it /really/ exist?

    >
    > It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that they were
    > only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it doesn't exist after
    > all.
    >



    3000 of 'em. Wow! Of course, let's give them there own super-special
    new Big 8 group ;v)
     
    Dave, Sep 14, 2004
    #72
  13. Thad

    Bill Aten Guest

    CFV: rec.photo.digital reorganization

    FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr

    Newsgroups lines:
    rec.photo.digital.point+shoot Point-and-shoot digital cameras.
    rec.photo.digital.rangefinder Digital rangefinder camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.zlr Digital cameras w/ fixed zoom lenses & manual controls.

    Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 20 Oct 2004.

    This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
    the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

    Proponent: Alan Browne <>
    Proponent: William Drew <>
    Proponent: Thaddeus Lipshitz <>
    Proponent: Alexis Pagonis <>
    Proponent: Rose Parchen <>
    Proponent: David J Taylor <>
    Votetaker: Bill Aten <>

    RATIONALE: all groups

    The growth of digital photography has caused the only Big-8 digital photography
    newsgroup (rec.photo.digital) to become overwhelmed with an enormous volume of
    posts. RPD was created to discuss all general aspects of digital photography -
    including cameras, scanners, printers, software, and other related topics. More
    and more people are using digital cameras, and learning about photography. The
    modern digital camera has evolved into a family of different flavors. Different
    tools have different needs. Four new groups are proposed to offer digital
    photographers technology-specific forums which allow users to concentrate on
    what best meets their current needs.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, accessories for those
    cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR, and
    digital rangefinder cameras. Point-and-shoot digicams are more popular then
    ever. Image quality from these generally compact cameras is beginning to rival
    that of their larger digital SLR and digital ZLR cousins. It makes sense to
    create a new newsgroup for the largest segment of the digital camera
    population: the point-and-shoot digicams.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital rangefinder cameras, lenses and accessories for
    those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR,
    and digital point-and shoot cameras. Digital rangefinders are currently in
    development by camera manufacturers such as Leica, Voigtlander, Contax, and
    Epson. Upon availability, these digital bodies will offer a viable digital
    solution for owners of Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander and other quality lenses for
    rangefinders. There is already a good level of enthusiasm and discussion
    surrounding this unique category of digital cameras.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems, separate
    from film SLR cameras and non-SLR digital cameras. Digital SLR photography is
    growing at an amazing rate. It is time to create a Big-8 newsgroup for digital
    SLR enthusiasts. Rec.photo.digital was created before the digital photography
    revolution peaked. At that time, digital SLR camera systems were not easily
    obtainable by the average person, due to high cost and limited availability.
    Due to advances in the past year alone by some of the major camera
    manufacturers, a person can find digital SLR camera equipment for sale at
    almost every shopping mall, strip mall, or electronics store on earth, at very
    reasonable prices.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of high-end digital cameras with zoom lenses and full manual
    controls, accessories for those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from
    digital SLR cameras, digital rangefinders and digital point-and-shoot cameras.
    These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR (zoom lens reflex)
    cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an SLR-like appearance
    due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more compact shape of
    most point-and-shoot cameras. The digital ZLR is emerging as the camera of
    choice for many people that have graduated from basic point-and-shoot digital
    cameras, but don't need the added bulk and weight of a comparably equipped
    digital SLR.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, is an open forum for the
    discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, and using those cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for point-and-shoot digital cameras, such as: add-on
    lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, camera bags/cases, and camera
    maintenance.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of point-and-shoot digital photography

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of digital SLR, ZLR, rangefinder, or other digital cameras with
    manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    point-and-shoot digital photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital rangefinder camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital rangefinder camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras
    - Any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including but not limited
    to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital rangefinder camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of digital rangefinder photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film rangefinder bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, SLR, or any other non-rangefinder
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital rangefinder photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital SLR (DSLR) camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Discussion of any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including
    but not limited to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens
    filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, DSLR camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of DSLR photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film SLR bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, rangefinder, or any other non-SLR
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of digital rangefinders
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    DSLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.zlr, is an open forum for the discussion of
    high-end digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses and full manual controls, and
    using those cameras. These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR
    (zoom lens reflex) cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an
    SLR-like appearance due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more
    compact shape of most point-and-shoot digital cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for digital ZLR cameras, such as: external flash
    units, add-on lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital ZLR maintenance, tripods and monopods.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
    discussion remains within the context of digital ZLR photography.

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of "point and shoot" digital cameras with no manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of cameras with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital ZLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.zlr, please use standard Usenet netiquette.
    Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions when replying
    to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the significant
    portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that specify who
    wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure
    readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the
    Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    HOW TO VOTE:

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    PLEASE, do not send the entire CFV back to me as this mail is archived.

    Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: <>
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    If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
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    ======= BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything BEFORE this line =======
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Official CFV Name: rec.photo.digital Reorg
    | Usenet Voting Ballot [RPDR-79-1] (Do not remove this line!)
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.
    | Established Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name
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    | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
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    | --------- ---------
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.zlr
    |
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    ======= END OF BALLOT: Delete everything AFTER this line ==============


    IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

    Standard Guidelines for voting apply. Only one vote per person, no
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    the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes
    are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered
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    Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
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    acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
    about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
    is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
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    DO NOT redistribute this CFV in any manner whatsoever. The purpose of
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    Distribution of pre-marked or otherwise modified copies of this CFV is
    generally considered voting fraud and should be reported immediately to
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    DISTRIBUTION:

    The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the locations listed
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    This CFV has been posted to the following newsgroups:

    news.announce.newgroups
    news.groups
    alt.comp.periphs.dcameras
    rec.photo.digital
    rec.photo.equipment.35mm
     
    Bill Aten, Sep 29, 2004
    #73
  14. Thad

    Dave Guest

    Re: CFV: rec.photo.digital reorganization

    Bill Aten wrote:
    > FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr
    >



    Vote early and vote often ;)
     
    Dave, Sep 30, 2004
    #74
  15. Thad

    Bill Aten Guest

    2nd CFV: rec.photo.digital reorganization

    LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr

    Newsgroups lines:
    rec.photo.digital.point+shoot Point-and-shoot digital cameras.
    rec.photo.digital.rangefinder Digital rangefinder camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.zlr Digital cameras w/ fixed zoom lenses & manual controls.

    Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 20 Oct 2004.

    This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
    the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

    Proponent: Alan Browne <>
    Proponent: William Drew <>
    Proponent: Thaddeus Lipshitz <>
    Proponent: Alexis Pagonis <>
    Proponent: Rose Parchen <>
    Proponent: David J Taylor <>
    Votetaker: Bill Aten <>

    RATIONALE: all groups

    The growth of digital photography has caused the only Big-8 digital photography
    newsgroup (rec.photo.digital) to become overwhelmed with an enormous volume of
    posts. RPD was created to discuss all general aspects of digital photography -
    including cameras, scanners, printers, software, and other related topics. More
    and more people are using digital cameras, and learning about photography. The
    modern digital camera has evolved into a family of different flavors. Different
    tools have different needs. Four new groups are proposed to offer digital
    photographers technology-specific forums which allow users to concentrate on
    what best meets their current needs.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, accessories for those
    cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR, and
    digital rangefinder cameras. Point-and-shoot digicams are more popular then
    ever. Image quality from these generally compact cameras is beginning to rival
    that of their larger digital SLR and digital ZLR cousins. It makes sense to
    create a new newsgroup for the largest segment of the digital camera
    population: the point-and-shoot digicams.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital rangefinder cameras, lenses and accessories for
    those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR,
    and digital point-and shoot cameras. Digital rangefinders are currently in
    development by camera manufacturers such as Leica, Voigtlander, Contax, and
    Epson. Upon availability, these digital bodies will offer a viable digital
    solution for owners of Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander and other quality lenses for
    rangefinders. There is already a good level of enthusiasm and discussion
    surrounding this unique category of digital cameras.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems, separate
    from film SLR cameras and non-SLR digital cameras. Digital SLR photography is
    growing at an amazing rate. It is time to create a Big-8 newsgroup for digital
    SLR enthusiasts. Rec.photo.digital was created before the digital photography
    revolution peaked. At that time, digital SLR camera systems were not easily
    obtainable by the average person, due to high cost and limited availability.
    Due to advances in the past year alone by some of the major camera
    manufacturers, a person can find digital SLR camera equipment for sale at
    almost every shopping mall, strip mall, or electronics store on earth, at very
    reasonable prices.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of high-end digital cameras with zoom lenses and full manual
    controls, accessories for those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from
    digital SLR cameras, digital rangefinders and digital point-and-shoot cameras.
    These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR (zoom lens reflex)
    cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an SLR-like appearance
    due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more compact shape of
    most point-and-shoot cameras. The digital ZLR is emerging as the camera of
    choice for many people that have graduated from basic point-and-shoot digital
    cameras, but don't need the added bulk and weight of a comparably equipped
    digital SLR.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, is an open forum for the
    discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, and using those cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for point-and-shoot digital cameras, such as: add-on
    lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, camera bags/cases, and camera
    maintenance.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of point-and-shoot digital photography

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of digital SLR, ZLR, rangefinder, or other digital cameras with
    manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    point-and-shoot digital photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital rangefinder camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital rangefinder camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras
    - Any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including but not limited
    to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital rangefinder camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of digital rangefinder photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film rangefinder bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, SLR, or any other non-rangefinder
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital rangefinder photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital SLR (DSLR) camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Discussion of any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including
    but not limited to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens
    filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, DSLR camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of DSLR photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film SLR bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, rangefinder, or any other non-SLR
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of digital rangefinders
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    DSLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.zlr, is an open forum for the discussion of
    high-end digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses and full manual controls, and
    using those cameras. These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR
    (zoom lens reflex) cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an
    SLR-like appearance due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more
    compact shape of most point-and-shoot digital cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for digital ZLR cameras, such as: external flash
    units, add-on lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital ZLR maintenance, tripods and monopods.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
    discussion remains within the context of digital ZLR photography.

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of "point and shoot" digital cameras with no manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of cameras with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital ZLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.zlr, please use standard Usenet netiquette.
    Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions when replying
    to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the significant
    portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that specify who
    wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure
    readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the
    Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    HOW TO VOTE:

    Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
    the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
    the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
    reply inserts.

    PLEASE, do not send the entire CFV back to me as this mail is archived.

    Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: <>
    Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

    In order to properly record your vote, please provide your REAL NAME
    (or established Usenet handle) and indicate your desired vote in the
    appropriate locations inside the ballot.

    Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

    [ YES ] example.yes.vote
    [ NO ] example.no.vote
    [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
    [ CANCEL ] example.cancellation

    DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
    If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

    If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
    days, contact the votetaker about the problem. You are responsible
    for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.


    ======= BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything BEFORE this line =======
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Official CFV Name: rec.photo.digital Reorg
    | Usenet Voting Ballot [RPDR-79-2] (Do not remove this line!)
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.
    | Established Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name
    | (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other information;
    | ONLY your name) directly after the colon in "Voter name:" on the
    | following line.
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Voter name:
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
    | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
    |
    | Your Vote Newsgroup
    | --------- ---------
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.zlr
    |
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    ======= END OF BALLOT: Delete everything AFTER this line ==============


    IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

    Standard Guidelines for voting apply. Only one vote per person, no
    more than one vote per account. Votes must be mailed directly from
    the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes
    are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered
    to be anonymous votes.

    Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
    mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
    acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
    about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
    is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
    the most recent valid vote. Names, addresses, and votes of all voters
    will be published in the final voting results post.

    DO NOT redistribute this CFV in any manner whatsoever. The purpose of
    a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would
    read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested parties
    defeats this purpose. Only the votetaker, the news.announce.newgroups
    moderator, and the proponent (if specifically authorized by the votetaker)
    are permitted to distribute copies of this CFV.

    Distribution of pre-marked or otherwise modified copies of this CFV is
    generally considered voting fraud and should be reported immediately to
    the votetaker or the UVV <>. In cases where voting fraud
    is determined to have occurred, it is standard operating procedure to
    delete ALL votes submitted by the violator. When in doubt, ask the
    votetaker.

    DISTRIBUTION:

    The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the locations listed
    below, the UVV web site at http://www.uvv.org/, and the votetaker's e-mail
    CFV server which can be reached at <>.

    This CFV has been posted to the following newsgroups:

    news.announce.newgroups
    news.groups
    alt.comp.periphs.dcameras
    rec.photo.digital
    rec.photo.equipment.35mm

    rec.photo.digital Reorg - Ack Bounce List
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because the Vote Ack email bounced, the email addresses and associated
    ballots listed below are considered invalid and will not be counted in the
    final result. Ballots must be submitted from a valid and verifyable email
    address in order to be processed. The individuals listed below will need
    to revote from a valid email address prior to the poll closing in order to
    correct this problem.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    andyb [at] zocalo.uk.com Andy Blanchard
    jadams [at] thepub.co.za Joanna Adams
    jhoppyc [at] westnet.com.invalid John Clarke

    --
    Bill Aten, UVV <>
     
    Bill Aten, Oct 11, 2004
    #75
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