4th RFD: rec.photo.digital reorganization

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr
unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of
the digital photography groups in the rec.photo.digital hierarchy. This
is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural
details are below.

CHANGES:

1. Three additional newsgroups have been added to this proposal
2. Change of name from rec.photo.digital.slr to
rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
3. Digital rangefinders moved from digital SLR group to their own
newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

The creation of any or all of these proposed newgroups would NOT
require the removal of rec.photo.digital - RPD would continue to
stay alive as a functioning newsgroup.

Newsgroup lines:
rec.photo.digital.point+shoot Point-and-shoot digital cameras.
rec.photo.digital.rangefinder Digital rangefinder camera systems.
rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.
rec.photo.digital.zlr Digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses & manual controls.

RATIONALE: all groups

The growth of digital photography has caused the only Big-8 digital
photography newsgroup (rec.photo.digital) to become overwhelmed with an
enormous volume of posts. RPD was created to discuss all general
aspects of digital photography - including cameras, scanners, printers,
software, and other related topics. More and more people are using
digital cameras, and learning about photography. The modern digital
camera has evolved into a family of different flavors. Different tools
have different needs. Four new groups are proposed to offer digital
photographers technology-specific forums which allow users to
concentrate on what best meets their current needs.

RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open
forum for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera
systems, separate from film SLR cameras and non-SLR digital cameras.
Digital SLR photography is growing at an amazing rate. It is time to
create a Big-8 newsgroup for digital SLR enthusiasts. Rec.photo.digital
was created before the digital photography revolution peaked. At that
time, digital SLR camera systems were not easily obtainable by the
average person, due to high cost and limited availability. Due to
advances in the past year alone by some of the major camera
manufacturers, a person can find digital SLR camera equipment for sale
at almost every shopping mall, strip mall, or electronics store on
earth, at very reasonable prices.

RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.zlr

The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open
forum for the discussion of high-end digital cameras with zoom lenses
and full manual controls, accessories for those cameras, and using those
cameras, separate from digital SLR cameras, digital rangefinders and
digital point-and-shoot cameras. These cameras are frequently referred
to as digital ZLR (zoom lens reflex) cameras or SLR-like digital
cameras, and typically have an SLR-like appearance due to the bulk of
the lens rather than the relatively more compact shape of most
point-and-shoot cameras. The digital ZLR is emerging as the camera of
choice for many people that have graduated from basic point-and-shoot
digital cameras, but don't need the added bulk and weight of a
comparably equipped digital SLR.

RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open
forum for the discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, accessories
for those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR,
digital ZLR, and digital rangefinder cameras. Point-and-shoot digicams
are more popular then ever. Image quality from these generally compact
cameras is beginning to rival that of their larger digital SLR and
digital ZLR cousins. It makes sense to create a new newsgroup for the
largest segment of the digital camera population: the point-and-shoot
digicams.

RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open
forum for the discussion of digital rangefinder cameras, lenses and
accessories for those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from
digital SLR, digital ZLR, and digital point-and shoot cameras. Digital
rangefinders are currently in development by camera manufacturers such
as Leica, Voigtlander, Contax, and Epson. Upon availability, these
digital bodies will offer a viable digital solution for owners of Leica,
Zeiss, Voigtlander and other quality lenses for rangefinders. There is
already a good level of enthusiasm and discussion surrounding this
unique category of digital cameras.

CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, is an open forum for the
discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.

These systems consist of:

-Digital SLR (DSLR) camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
-Lenses for those cameras

Additional On-Topic Discussion:

-Discussion of any relevant accessories for those camera systems,
including but not limited to: external flash units, memory cards,
microdrives, lens filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, DSLR
camera/lens/accessory maintenance, tripods and monopods
-Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of DSLR photography
-Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of DSLR photography
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
discussion remains within the context of DSLR photography
-Discussion of digital backs for film SLR bodies

What Is Considered Off-Topic:

-Discussion of pure film cameras
-Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, rangefinder, or any other
non-SLR digital cameras
-Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
-Discussion of digital rangefinders
-Discussion of scanners
-Discussion of printers
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context
of DSLR photography

Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts
should be prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in
the subject line. If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
clearly off-topic, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change
the subject line to reflect the off-topic change.

Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography
is off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in
that direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread
ever becomes clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital
photography vs. film photography, it is the duty of those individuals
posting to change the subject line to reflect the off-topic change.

What Is Considered Inappropriate:

- Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
relevance to each group in the crosspost

What Is Not Permitted:

-Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
-Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems
are permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
-Signatures with more than 4 lines
-Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
-Personal attacks
-Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small
binary signatures
-Commercial advertisements:

This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any
kind, whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other
promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to
photography.

Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of
promoting those sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may
be posted in the context of answering a specific question.

All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, please use standard
Usenet netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard
conventions when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to,
retaining only the significant portions in your follow up. Preserve
attributions (the bits that specify who wrote what in each post) and
limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure readability, do not
use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the Usenet
standard of 80 characters or less.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.zlr

This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.zlr, is an open forum for the
discussion of high-end digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses and full
manual controls, and using those cameras. These cameras are frequently
referred to as digital ZLR (zoom lens reflex) cameras or SLR-like
digital cameras, and typically have an SLR-like appearance due to the
bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more compact shape of most
point-and-shoot digital cameras.

Additional On-Topic Discussion:

-Any relevant accessories for digital ZLR cameras, such as: external
flash units,
add-on lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
camera
bags/cases, digital ZLR maintenance, tripods and monopods.
-Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of digital ZLR photography
-Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of digital ZLR photography
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
discussion remains within the context of digital ZLR photography.

What Is Considered Off-Topic:

-Discussion of "point and shoot" digital cameras with no manual controls
-Discussion of any film cameras
-Discussion of cameras with mounts for detachable lenses
-Discussion of scanners
-Discussion of printers
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context
of
digital ZLR photography

Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts
should
be prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the
subject
line. If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly
off-topic,
it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line
to
reflect the off-topic change.

Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography
is
off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in
that
direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever
becomes clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital
photography vs. film photography, it is the duty of those individuals
posting to change the subject line to reflect the off-topic change.

What Is Considered Inappropriate:

- Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
relevance to each group in the crosspost

What Is Not Permitted:

-Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
-Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or
models
are permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
-Signatures with more than 4 lines
-Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
-Personal attacks
-Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small
binary
signatures
-Commercial advertisements:

This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any
kind, whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other
promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to
photography.

Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of
promoting
those sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted
in
the context of answering a specific question.

All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

When posting on rec.photo.digital.zlr, please use standard Usenet
netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard
conventions when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to,
retaining only the significant portions in your follow up. Preserve
attributions (the bits that specify who wrote what in each post) and
limit
your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure readability, do not use
HTML
in your posts and limit your line lengths to the Usenet standard of 80
characters or less.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, is an open forum for the
discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, and using those cameras.

Additional On-Topic Discussion:

-Any relevant accessories for point-and-shoot digital cameras, such as:
add-on lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, camera bags/cases, and
camera maintenance.
-Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of point-and-shoot digital photography
-Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of point-and-shoot digital photography
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
discussion remains within the context of point-and-shoot digital
photography

What Is Considered Off-Topic:

-Discussion of digital SLR, ZLR, rangefinder, or other digital cameras
with manual controls
-Discussion of any film cameras
-Discussion of scanners
-Discussion of printers
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context
of
point-and-shoot digital photography

Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts
should be prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in
the subject line. If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes
clearly off-topic, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change
the subject line to reflect the off-topic change.

Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography
is off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in
that direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread
ever becomes clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital
photography vs. film photography, it is the duty of those individuals
posting to change the subject line to reflect the off-topic change.

What Is Considered Inappropriate:

- Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
relevance to each group in the crosspost

What Is Not Permitted:

-Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
-Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or
models are permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal
flames)
-Signatures with more than 4 lines
-Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
-Personal attacks
-Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small
binary signatures
-Commercial advertisements:

This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any
kind, whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other
promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to
photography.

Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of
promoting those sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may
be posted in the context of answering a specific question.

All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

When posting on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, please use standard
Usenet netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard
conventions when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to,
retaining only the significant portions in your follow up. Preserve
attributions (the bits that specify who wrote what in each post) and
limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure readability, do not
use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the Usenet
standard of 80 characters or less.

END CHARTER.

CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, is an open forum for the
discussion of digital rangefinder camera systems.

These systems consist of:

-Digital rangefinder camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
-Lenses for those cameras
-Any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including but not
limited to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens
filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, digital rangefinder
camera/lens/accessory maintenance, tripods and monopods.

Additional On-Topic Discussion:

-Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of digital rangefinder photography
-Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the
context of digital rangefinder photography
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
discussion remains within the context of digital rangefinder photography
-Discussion of digital backs for film rangefinder bodies

What Is Considered Off-Topic:

-Discussion of pure film cameras
-Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, SLR, or any other
non-rangefinder digital cameras
-Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
-Discussion of scanners
-Discussion of printers
-Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context
of digital rangefinder photography

Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts
should be prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in
the subject line. If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
clearly off-topic, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change
the subject line to reflect the off-topic change.

Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography
is off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in
that direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread
ever becomes clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital
photography vs. film photography, it is the duty of those individuals
posting to change the subject line to reflect the off-topic change.

What Is Considered Inappropriate:

- Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
relevance to each group in the crosspost

What Is Not Permitted:

-Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
-Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems
are permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
-Signatures with more than 4 lines
-Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
-Personal attacks
-Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small
binary signatures
-Commercial advertisements:

This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any
kind, whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other
promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to
photography.

Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of
promoting those sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may
be posted in the context of answering a specific question.

All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr, please use standard Usenet
netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard
conventions when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to,
retaining only the significant portions in your follow up. Preserve
attributions (the bits that specify who wrote what in each post) and
limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure readability, do not
use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the Usenet
standard of 80 characters or less.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for
a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal
is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes
(CFV) will be posted by a neutral vote taker. Please do not attempt to
vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:

news.groups,
news.announce.newgroups
alt.comp.periphs.dcameras
rec.photo.equipment.35mm
rec.photo.digital

Proponent: Thaddeus Lipshitz <>
Proponent: Alan Browne <>
Proponent: David J Taylor <>
Proponent: William Drew <>
Proponent: Rose Parchen <>
Proponent: Alexis Pagonis <>

 

Thad wrote:

> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

> Proponent: Thaddeus Lipshitz <>
> Proponent: Alan Browne <>
> Proponent: David J Taylor <>
> Proponent: William Drew <>
> Proponent: Rose Parchen <>
> Proponent: Alexis Pagonis <>

Hi Everyone. I would like to thank David, Bill, Rose, and Alexis for
joining the proponent team. As many of you already know David and Bill
submitted a proposal for the ZLR group. Alexis submitted a proposal for
an ultra-compact digital camera group - this was a surprise to Alan and
me. Todd and the good people of the NAN moderation team decided that it
would be best if we merged all three of these proposed groups into a
single RFD. Fortunately, we were able to collaborate and make that
happen.

The ultra-compact proposal seemed a bit too narrow - cameras in this RFD
are categorized by ability, not size. Alexis agreed to reshape her group
idea around all point-and-shoot-only digital cameras - regardless of
physical size.

The name of the digital SLR systems group was changed to include the
term "slr-systems" in the newsgroup name. This specifies that the
newsgroup is for discussion of digital SLR systems - digital SLR bodies
with mounts for exchangeable lenses WITH NO EXCEPTIONS. Rangefinders
were removed from the DSLR systems group - thus the birth of the
rangefinder group, which was originally suggested in e-mails by Rose
(owner of a Leica M6).

Digital reflex cameras and non-reflex cameras with non-removable zoom
lenses are covered by the ZLR newsgroup - I strongly suspect that this
group might be the busiest of all four, if passed. ZLRs are excellent
cameras, and there are enough users to warrant their own newsgroup. I
strongly believe that all four of these newsgroups will flourish, if
passed.

With the proposal of these four newsgroups, every digital camera is at
home in one of them. Each group would provide a Big-8 home for different
flavors of real digital cameras - all of which are capable of giving
excellent image quality in many situations.

I would also like to thank everyone who contributed to the RFD process,
whether in the news.groups discussion, or via e-mail. I welcome your
feedback.

--

Thaddeus Lipshitz

 

I do not agree with this for two reasons...
1. an SLR does not require a lens to be removable. it can be fixed.
2. I feel the group should be moderated.

once those are done, I will vote for it when the CFD is called.

However, I propose another group which most of teh membership would prefer to
join, which is RPD.canon.slr and which would be moderated.
If you need a proponent for it, I would take it. I have not gone thru the
creation of a rec. group in 10 yrs or more but I would certainly think that most
people on RPD would rather be on a Canon slr list and would like for it to be
moderated and would like the rules loosened to include discussions on aspects
related to the "systems" as the recently created term has been used. iow
discussions on CF, storage, printers, etc. having to do with the Canon dSLR.

fwiw


fwiw
chas
--
chas
The new Canon DSLR elist. no trolls, etc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canon-dslr/join

....

 

"schuetzen - RKBA!" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> I do not agree with this for two reasons...
> 1. an SLR does not require a lens to be removable. it can be fixed.
> 2. I feel the group should be moderated.
>
> once those are done, I will vote for it when the CFD is called.
>
> However, I propose another group which most of teh membership would prefer
> to
> join, which is RPD.canon.slr and which would be moderated.
> If you need a proponent for it, I would take it. I have not gone thru the
> creation of a rec. group in 10 yrs or more but I would certainly think
> that most
> people on RPD would rather be on a Canon slr list and would like for it to
> be
> moderated and would like the rules loosened to include discussions on
> aspects
> related to the "systems" as the recently created term has been used. iow
> discussions on CF, storage, printers, etc. having to do with the Canon
> dSLR.
>
> fwiw
>
>
> fwiw
> chas
> --
> chas
> The new Canon DSLR elist. no trolls, etc
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canon-dslr/join
>
> ...


Moderation will cause a newsgroup to be DOA. If you don't believe me, go to
rec.photo.moderated.

Mark

 

"Mark B." <> wrote in message
news:...
> "schuetzen - RKBA!" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> >
> > I do not agree with this for two reasons...
> > 1. an SLR does not require a lens to be removable. it can be
fixed.
> > 2. I feel the group should be moderated.
> >
> > once those are done, I will vote for it when the CFD is called.
> >
> > However, I propose another group which most of teh membership
would prefer
> > to
> > join, which is RPD.canon.slr and which would be moderated.
> > If you need a proponent for it, I would take it. I have not gone
thru the
> > creation of a rec. group in 10 yrs or more but I would certainly
think
> > that most
> > people on RPD would rather be on a Canon slr list and would like
for it to
> > be
> > moderated and would like the rules loosened to include discussions
on
> > aspects
> > related to the "systems" as the recently created term has been
used. iow
> > discussions on CF, storage, printers, etc. having to do with the
Canon
> > dSLR.
> >
> > fwiw
> >
> >
> > fwiw
> > chas
> > --
> > chas
> > The new Canon DSLR elist. no trolls, etc
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canon-dslr/join
> >
> > ...
>
>
> Moderation will cause a newsgroup to be DOA. If you don't believe
me, go to
> rec.photo.moderated.
>
> Mark

Zero posts that survived my Spam filter in the last week.


--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA

 

Wow, you guys (and gals) have been busy while I've been away! The new
structure looks great too, but I do have a very slight concern about
cross posting. As the charters stand with RFD4 it would be acceptable
to make a cross post a query about something generic like memory cards
to all groups in the RPD hierarchy. Is that what we want, or do we
want a clause like "should be restricted to the RPD group and the
subgroup(s) frequented by the poster"?

Andy

 

"Charles" <> wrote

> Thad <> wrote:

>> Each proposed group will have its own YES/NO section on the ballot.

> I don't see the point in proposing a group that is premature to exist.
> Also I dislike your change of the proposed name of the proposed slr
> group. It seems like you are so stubborn in your slr has to have
> interchangable lens thesis that you have mucked up the proposal.

Yeah, I agree, the whole thing has gotten all muxed up now

It's become sekret handshakes and who are you?

Well me and the family perdy well know how we're voting.

 

"Jeremy Nixon" <> wrote

> Thad <> wrote:

>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)

> Has this now become The Proposal That Must Please Everyone, Even
> People Who Have No Interest In The Originally Proposed Group?

Apparently not, as I'm not happy

What a joke, they call it a reorg and ignore the 2 most important groups.

>> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

> This is truly silly. The total number of models of digital rangefinder
> cameras in existence is zero. That's going to be one lively group.
> What happened to letting them hang out in the SLR group until
> there's any kind of need for a group of their own? Like, say,
> sometime after there actually *are* any such cameras?

I think they're planning on playing 'dodge the troll'
get enough groups, da sekret hand shake, they be in there

 

Mark B. wrote:

>
>> ...
>
>
>Moderation will cause a newsgroup to be DOA. If you don't believe me, go to
>rec.photo.moderated.
>
>Mark

uh huh! well, rec.guns has been moderated for more than 10 yrs and is still
running strong. so, that for your comment.
fwiw
chas
--
chas
The new Canon DSLR elist. no trolls, etc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canon-dslr/join

....

 

schuetzen - RKBA! <> writes:

> Mark B. wrote:
>
> >
> >> ...
> >
> >
> >Moderation will cause a newsgroup to be DOA. If you don't believe me, go to
> >rec.photo.moderated.
> >
> >Mark
>
> uh huh! well, rec.guns has been moderated for more than 10 yrs and is still
> running strong. so, that for your comment.

Yes, but moderation by maniacs like that is hardly the same as the
sane moderation found anywhere else.

B>

 

Steve Young <bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet> wrote:

> Apparently not, as I'm not happy

What about?

> What a joke, they call it a reorg and ignore the 2 most important groups.

The two most important groups in rec.photo.digital? There aren't two
groups there at all.

--
Jeremy |

 

Andy Blanchard <> wrote:

> As the charters stand with RFD4 it would be acceptable to make a cross
> post a query about something generic like memory cards to all groups in
> the RPD hierarchy. Is that what we want, or do we want a clause like
> "should be restricted to the RPD group and the subgroup(s) frequented
> by the poster"?

Generic topics would still have rec.photo.digital, the existing group.
There would be no reason to crosspost them at all.

--
Jeremy |

 

"Jeremy Nixon" <> wrote

> Steve Young <bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet> wrote:

>> Apparently not, as I'm not happy

> What about?

Not fixing 2 pertinent charters along the way
Then having the gall to call it a reorg

>> What a joke, they call it a reorg and ignore the 2 most important
>> groups.

> The two most important groups in rec.photo.digital? There aren't two
> groups there at all.

The 2 groups germane to these proposals, i.e. rpd & rpe35
That's where most of the photo people speaking here are from.
I believe 35mm is home to the founding proponent/(s)
Both groups are listed for the CFV.

x

 

schuetzen - RKBA! <> wrote:
>Mark B. wrote:

>>
>>> ...
>>
>>
>>Moderation will cause a newsgroup to be DOA. If you don't believe me, go to
>>rec.photo.moderated.
>>
>>Mark

>uh huh! well, rec.guns has been moderated for more than 10 yrs and is still
>running strong. so, that for your comment.
>fwiw
>chas
>--
>chas
>The new Canon DSLR elist. no trolls, etc
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canon-dslr/join

Moderation has had mixed results. Sometimes it works, but most
often it does not. For example I spent five minutes with my
killfile and now rec.photo.digital is quite civilized. Sure,
I never see about half of the postings, but then, I really
*don't* want to see them.

I have no position on the reorganization except to ask folks
if they really want FIVE newsgroups, since rec.photo.digital
will continue to exist.

By the way, the more groups, the easier it is for spammers
to get them all. It takes but a minute to put all the groups
into the headers and then they get five groups for the effort
of spamming one.

----- Paul J. Gans

 

Steve Young <bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet> wrote:

>>> Apparently not, as I'm not happy
>>
>> What about?
>
> Not fixing 2 pertinent charters along the way
> Then having the gall to call it a reorg

The proposal can't "fix" the charters of other existing groups, assuming
there is anything wrong with them. There is no formal process for changing
a charter, so if people in those groups want to change them, they can just
figure out how they want to do it, and do it.

In practice, why does it really matter?

> The 2 groups germane to these proposals, i.e. rpd & rpe35
> That's where most of the photo people speaking here are from.

People aren't "from" newsgroups.

All of the proposed groups cover topics currently covered by rec.photo.digital.
I see no particular reason to believe that most of the same people won't be
there, just in a better organized namespace.

As for the 35mm group, well, none of the proposed groups is dealing with
35mm in any way, so any discussion that "moves" will simply be moving to
a more appropriate place.

> I believe 35mm is home to the founding proponent/(s)

You do realize that it's possible for a person to read more than one group,
right?

--
Jeremy |

 

Thad <> wrote in message news:<>...
> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
> unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
>
> This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of
> the digital photography groups in the rec.photo.digital hierarchy. This
> is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural
> details are below.
> SNIP

I think the proposed names of the groups is a problem. Very few tyro's
(yes, like me) are going to know what you're talking about - ie. "ZLR?
what's that? Rangefinder???...". And, let's face it, the more
sophisticated users, with the higher end equipment, want a forum where
they can talk to each other without the background irritation of the
beginners. The beginners and just trying to learn-ers would probably
appreciate a forum to get basic answers and post photos for comment
without the jeers from the old f--ts.

So, I humbly propose (something like):
rec.photo.digital.professional (combining the SLR and Rangefinder
categories)
rec.photo.digital.hobby (combining the ZLR and Point+Shoot categories)
rec.photo.digital.software (to discuss digital post-processing and so
forth)

Now, I picked these names "out of a hat" so to speak; really I just
think that no-one will really understand the groups you've suggested,
and the proposed names presuppose a level of knowledge of photography
that few beginners (or even moderately sophisticated dabblers) are
going to have. Perhaps a division along the lines of the professionals
vs. the hobbyists would be more useful. Or perhaps hardware and
software? I don't know.

Anyways, my two bits....
ECM

 

Thanks for the feedback, ECM.

ECM wrote:

> I think the proposed names of the groups is a problem. Very few tyro's
> (yes, like me) are going to know what you're talking about - ie. "ZLR?
> what's that? Rangefinder???...". And, let's face it, the more
> sophisticated users, with the higher end equipment, want a forum where
> they can talk to each other without the background irritation of the
> beginners. The beginners and just trying to learn-ers would probably
> appreciate a forum to get basic answers and post photos for comment
> without the jeers from the old f--ts.
>
> So, I humbly propose (something like):
> rec.photo.digital.professional (combining the SLR and Rangefinder
> categories)

There are consumer, prosumer and professional models of DSLRs.
Rangefinders are used by photographers with a wide degree of different
backgrounds too.

> rec.photo.digital.hobby (combining the ZLR and Point+Shoot categories)

My Nikon D70 is used for hobbyist purposes - not professional. And this
is a DSLR.

> rec.photo.digital.software (to discuss digital post-processing and so
> forth)

Post processing will be discussed in the same group as all of the
cameras anyway, so why ban them from the charters?

> Now, I picked these names "out of a hat" so to speak; really I just
> think that no-one will really understand the groups you've suggested,
> and the proposed names presuppose a level of knowledge of photography
> that few beginners (or even moderately sophisticated dabblers) are
> going to have. Perhaps a division along the lines of the professionals
> vs. the hobbyists would be more useful. Or perhaps hardware and
> software? I don't know.
>
> Anyways, my two bits....
> ECM

Thanks, but that would open even more basis for "elitist" accusations
than the current proposals. This way, cameras are classified by ability,
not class or experience level. There will be beginners, intermediate,
and advanced users in all four of the proposed groups, if passed, and
they will all learn from each other.

--

Thaddeus Lipshitz

 

Bruce Murphy wrote:

>
>> uh huh! well, rec.guns has been moderated for more than 10 yrs and is still
>> running strong. so, that for your comment.
>
>Yes, but moderation by maniacs like that is hardly the same as the
>sane moderation found anywhere else.

what in hell does that mean??? since when is Dr Purtillo a maniac??
are you making some rabid anti right to bear arms, liberal, commie comment??


--
chas
The new Canon DSLR elist. no trolls, etc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canon-dslr/join

....

 

schuetzen - RKBA! <> writes:

> Bruce Murphy wrote:
>
> >
> >> uh huh! well, rec.guns has been moderated for more than 10 yrs and is still
> >> running strong. so, that for your comment.
> >
> >Yes, but moderation by maniacs like that is hardly the same as the
> >sane moderation found anywhere else.
>
> what in hell does that mean??? since when is Dr Purtillo a maniac??
> are you making some rabid anti right to bear arms, liberal, commie comment??

Absolutely, did I tell you about my idea of moving Israel to Idaho. Do
they have guns in Idaho?

B>

 

ECM wrote:

>
>So, I humbly propose (something like):
>rec.photo.digital.professional (combining the SLR and Rangefinder
>categories)
>rec.photo.digital.hobby (combining the ZLR and Point+Shoot categories)
>rec.photo.digital.software (to discuss digital post-processing and so
>forth)

this is an excellent idea. I like it very much.
there is no reason why we have to go with these RFDs and any CFV...
in fact, I expect all or most will fail just as a result of apathy or confusion
AND apathy.

basically, I enjoy my Canon-dSLR elist when it is perking as it is completely
moderated but nothing is OFF TOPIC as long as it relates to Canon dSLRs or
things related as covered by your software suggestions and all the hardware, and
peripherals out there. in fact, the RPD has been pretty calm for the last few
days. and I really see no need to move to one of these additional groups.

However, I still think that well over half of those reading the RPD are Canon
owners/users and that such a group aimed at those people would be heavily
frequented as long as it is moderated and that the present freedom of topic
related subjects are allowed.

I just do not like what has been proposed. period!
fwiw
chas
--
chas
The new Canon DSLR elist. no trolls, etc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canon-dslr/join

....