20D or 5D

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rob, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. Rob

    Mark² Guest

    That's a better way to word it, and I frankly am not completely clear on how
    it works out.
    You're right that it quickly becomes unable to provide a main light.
    I was afraid that some people might have assumed the poster meant you
    somehow couldn't use flash above 1/200th, which of course isn't true.

    I like the way you explained it.
     
    Mark², Aug 25, 2005
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  2. Rob

    Mark² Guest

    Of course it is logical.
    But I would like to know if the presence of the 50 ISO also goes with
    perhaps a sensor with improved basic sensitivity. If the sensor is NOT more
    sensitive, then it would logically have to work as described. But if
    they've managed to actually increase sensitivity in the sensor, there could
    be other reasons for "hiding" the 50 setting.

    I don't say it isn't as he said...I just want to know if the sensor itself
    differs at all in this regard.
     
    Mark², Aug 25, 2005
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  3. Rob

    JPS Guest

    In message <[email protected]>,
    Me too, but that "1/12" figure is wrong; I must have pulled that from
    another context. It should be "1/40", i.e., ~1/10000 vs 1/250; and of
    course that 1/250 doesn't occur all at once, either.
    --
     
    JPS, Aug 25, 2005
  4. Rob

    JPS Guest

    In message <[email protected]>,
    Well, the bottom line is that you can always expect to be able to do
    something like that; the cost is a stop of highlights. There is no
    issue of sensitivity; to the degree that a camera can do ISO 100; it can
    do lower ISOs better in all other ways, at the cost of decreasing
    highlight headroom. There is absolutely nothing "fake" or "negative"
    about this other than the loss of headroom. In fact, if your image
    doesn't need the headroom that is lost, pulling ISO 100 to 50 gives a
    better quality ISO 50 than if the camera itself had an ISO 50 setting
    with the same highlight headroom as the other ISOs. This is generally,
    with all ISOs except the one or two highest on most cameras. ISO 1600
    with +2 EC, when used on a low contrast scene, has less noise and more
    accurate color and luminance than ISO 400 exposed "normally". The image
    is digitized at ISO as it would if ISO 400 were 14-bit instead of 12-bit
    RAW data.
    --
     
    JPS, Aug 25, 2005
  5. Rob

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    That should have been "at ISO 1600"
    Pulling 100 to 50 is like having a 13-bit 50.
    --
     
    JPS, Aug 25, 2005
  6. Rob

    Skip M Guest

    I never used the pop up on my A2, and only used the one on my D30 a couple
    of times. I used the one on my 20D for the first time a week or so ago, and
    found that the 24-70 f2.8L casts a shadow. But, then, who'd expect somebody
    with that lens to use the pop up? ( I left my flash at home,
    inadvertently...)
     
    Skip M, Aug 25, 2005
  7. Rob

    Skip M Guest

    I was wondering about that 1/200 flash synch. Defeatured to distance it
    from the 1 series?
     
    Skip M, Aug 25, 2005
  8. Sheesh. What a bunch of whiners. It's a tiny fraction of a stop from 1/250.
    I'd guess that the shutter is similar technology to the 20D shutter, and
    being larger means that the max flash sync speed will be slower. I'd also
    guess that the 1 series shutter is a very different beast, probably larger
    and heavier. The 5D is only 125 gm heavier than the 20D, which is flipping
    amazing given how much larger the sensor is. Going from a 645 SLR to a 6x7
    SLR (a similar increase in area in percentage terms) increases the weight by
    2/3, not a mere 1/5.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Aug 25, 2005
  9. Rob

    Brian Baird Guest

    But Stacey, you've never used the lens, how can you say?
    Yeah, what is your next excuse? Stop looking at me, I'm not going to
    make up your excuses for you.
     
    Brian Baird, Aug 25, 2005
  10. Rob

    Skip M Guest

    Heck, Stacey, the center doesn't look to hot, either...
     
    Skip M, Aug 25, 2005
  11. Rob

    Mark² Guest

    Sadly, yes.
    We lost our property's two best pine trees at teh tail end of that
    storm...with totally saturated ground.
    They were both about 60-70 feet tall (or more), and gave our back yard full
    privacy. They are no both gone, leaving our back yard to look like a stage
    before the world.
    :(
    We haven't gotten over it, and waiting another 30 years for them to grow
    back is a black thought.

    (Whine whine...)
    But ya, that was quite a rain--espacially for these parts.

    Where I was born, in Colombia, we had over 140 inches of rain a
    year...sometimes a LOT more.
    But that area is ready for it. San Diego isn't.

    -Mark
     
    Mark², Aug 25, 2005
  12. Rob

    Skip M Guest

    And it would be great for those of us who are a little "vision challenged,"
    and aren't quite sure of the exact position of the setting on the dial.
    "Did I turn that 3 clinks or four..."
     
    Skip M, Aug 25, 2005
  13. Rob

    Mark² Guest

    Ya, pop-ups are definitely useless with the 24-70/hood.
    By the time you back up, and zoom out enough for the subject to be out of
    the hood's shadow, you'd be out of useful range of the little flash
    anyway... Even then I think you might have shadow. And with the FF, the
    field of view will extend even further downward, meaning definite shadows...
    :)
    :)
     
    Mark², Aug 25, 2005
  14. Rob

    Skip M Guest

    Heheh, that's why we're going to buy a 70-200. Our 24-70s leave too big a
    gap to the 100-400, as it is, it's only going to be worse on the 5D (not the
    gap, but the usage) and it's not an f2.8, anyway. That range of 70-150mm
    seems critical, sometimes...
     
    Skip M, Aug 25, 2005
  15. Rob

    Brian Baird Guest

    Don't ruin the illusion for her. She's on a self-righteous rant that
    everything must be telecentric on these new-fangled full-frame DSLRs.
     
    Brian Baird, Aug 25, 2005
  16. Rob

    Mark² Guest

    Ya, but that's teetering right around the threshhold for nearly stopping
    motion, or clearly seeing it, in many indoor action shots with flash. Gotta
    agree it's a small point, but 1/200th sometimes is noticeably blurry
    compared to even 1/250th in certain shots. It's a fine distinction, but can
    matter more than the raw number implies, IMHO.
    According to the white sheet, it will use an all-new shutter concoction, but
    that doesn't mean it's not very similar as you say.
    And it's also rated at TWICE the exposure life (200,000 vs. 100,000!)
    I didn't see specs for how much heavier the now all-metal battery grip is
    than the one for D30-20D, but I wonder how the total weight of 5D+grip
    compares with the one-piece 1D series (since the grip is permanent).

    Mark
     
    Mark², Aug 25, 2005
  17. Rob

    Skip M Guest

    Actually, the thing is eerily like the old film EOS5/A2. Same positioning
    in the lineup, same size coverage on the viewfinder, spot meter, but larger
    than the 1 series, less than 1 series weather sealing, i.e. none. The only
    real difference, other than the obvious, is 3fps for the 5D vs. 5 fps for
    the EOS5.
    One thing I heard about the sealing is that Canon has found it difficult to
    seal dials, thus the buttons on the 1 series and the EOS3.
     
    Skip M, Aug 25, 2005
  18. Rob

    Mark² Guest

    You're clearly much more familiar with thos aspects than I am, and I
    appreciate the info.
    Thanks for 'splaining. :)

    Mark
     
    Mark², Aug 25, 2005
  19. Rob

    Skip M Guest

    Well, the 5D ain't gonna fit in your back pocket, flash or no flash... ;-)
     
    Skip M, Aug 25, 2005
  20. Rob

    Mark² Guest

    And don't forget that the A2 had not only a pop-up flash...but also a
    zooming flash (if I'm remembering right)! Didn't the A2's built-in have the
    ability to "zoom" just a bit, much like the EX series do, depending on what
    focal length you're at??
    I wonder why? They both still have a great big dial on the back! What's
    the big difference, I wonder...
     
    Mark², Aug 25, 2005
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