You World Trade Center conspiracy nuts need to READ THIS

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by The Truth, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. The Truth

    The Truth Guest

    1. Advertising

  2. In article <>
    "The Truth" <> wrote:
    >
    > http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons


    All you can do is slander them by posting this URL claiming 9/11 truthers are morons. What audicity you have!!
    Ad hominem attacks do nothing but discredit you!! Don't you feel terrible now? Well, you should.

    Don't you comprehend many of the 9/11 victims' families are truthers too? They know the "official story" doesn't add up. The
    Jersey Girls are an example.

    Thanks for showing your ignorance. Make sure to do it again sometime.
    George Orwell, Apr 9, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>
    > "The Truth" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

    >
    > All you can do is slander them by posting this URL claiming 9/11 truthers
    > are morons. What audicity you have!!
    > Ad hominem attacks do nothing but discredit you!! Don't you feel terrible
    > now? Well, you should.
    >
    > Don't you comprehend many of the 9/11 victims' families are truthers too?
    > They know the "official story" doesn't add up. The
    > Jersey Girls are an example.
    >
    > Thanks for showing your ignorance. Make sure to do it again sometime.


    Oh, he will. The shills love to put their ignorance on display. It's a
    point of pride.
    What Me Worry?, Apr 9, 2007
    #3
  4. George Orwell wrote:
    > In article <>
    > "The Truth" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

    >
    > All you can do is slander them by posting this URL claiming 9/11
    > truthers are morons. What audicity you have!!
    > Ad hominem attacks do nothing but discredit you!! Don't you feel
    > terrible now? Well, you should.
    >
    > Don't you comprehend many of the 9/11 victims' families are truthers
    > too?


    And what makes you nutters think that having a family member die
    in 9.11 imparts some kind of instantaneous scientific expertise to the
    surviving family?

    >They know the "official story" doesn't add up. The Jersey Girls
    > are an example.


    They are as ignorant as before 9.11.

    >
    > Thanks for showing your ignorance. Make sure to do it again sometime.


    Sez the kkkonspiracy kook.
    ¥ UltraMan ¥, Apr 9, 2007
    #4
  5. The Truth

    Joseph Welch Guest

    "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > All you can do is slander them by posting this URL claiming 9/11 truthers
    > are morons.


    Sorry - but you nutjobs *are* morons.

    --
    ____________________


    George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    Supporting Bush is treason.
    _____________________


    JW
    ***************
    "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    you left no sense of decency?"
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    The New Face of the Republican Party
    http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr
    Joseph Welch, Apr 9, 2007
    #5
  6. In article <>
    (George Orwell) wrote:
    >
    > In article <>
    > "The Truth" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

    >
    > All you can do is slander them by posting this URL claiming 9/11 truthers are morons. What audicity you have!!
    > Ad hominem attacks do nothing but discredit you!! Don't you feel terrible now? Well, you should.
    >
    > Don't you comprehend many of the 9/11 victims' families are truthers too? They know the "official story" doesn't add up. The
    > Jersey Girls are an example.
    >
    > Thanks for showing your ignorance. Make sure to do it again sometime.



    *audacity*
    George Orwell, Apr 9, 2007
    #6
  7. In article <>
    "Joseph Welch" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > All you can do is slander them by posting this URL claiming 9/11 truthers
    > > are morons.

    >
    > Sorry - but you nutjobs *are* morons.
    >
    > --
    > ____________________
    >
    >
    > George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    > their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    > western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    > violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    > Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    > freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    > Supporting Bush is treason.
    > _____________________
    >
    >
    > JW
    > ***************
    > "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    > you left no sense of decency?"
    > http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    > The New Face of the Republican Party
    > http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr



    Will you call the victims' families "morons" to their face, would you please? Please, oh please?

    Would you like it if I called you a "moron" if one of your family members who died on September 11, 2001 that question the
    official story because to this day, they still want and *deserve* answers?
    George Orwell, Apr 9, 2007
    #7
  8. In article <>
    "Joseph Welch" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > All you can do is slander them by posting this URL claiming 9/11 truthers
    > > are morons.

    >
    > Sorry - but you nutjobs *are* morons.
    >
    > --
    > ____________________
    >
    >
    > George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    > their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    > western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    > violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    > Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    > freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    > Supporting Bush is treason.
    > _____________________
    >
    >
    > JW
    > ***************
    > "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    > you left no sense of decency?"
    > http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    > The New Face of the Republican Party
    > http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr


    Aren't you aware Ann Coulter did the same thing are you doing -- which is slandering the victims' families?
    Kristen Breitweiser, Patty Casazza, Lorie Van Auken, and Mindy Kleinberg -- aka Jersey Girls. Google "Jersey Girls" for me,
    please. Or better yet, watch a copy of "9/11: Press for Truth" starring the "Jersey Girls."

    Obviously you are oblivious to the fact, if it weren't for the "Jersey Girls," there wouldn't have been a 9/11 Commission.
    George Orwell, Apr 9, 2007
    #8
  9. The Truth

    Joseph Welch Guest

    "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Will you call the victims' families "morons" to their face, would you
    > please? Please, oh please?


    Send me the ones nutty enough to believe this conspiracy bullshit and I'd be
    happy to.

    > Would you like it if I called you a "moron" if one of your family members
    > who died on September 11, 2001 that question the
    > official story because to this day, they still want and *deserve* answers?


    I would never be in the position of believing idiotic fairy tales no matter
    how deep my grief.

    --
    ____________________


    George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    Supporting Bush is treason.
    _____________________


    JW
    ***************
    "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    you left no sense of decency?"
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    The New Face of the Republican Party
    http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr
    Joseph Welch, Apr 9, 2007
    #9
  10. The Truth

    Joseph Welch Guest

    "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Aren't you aware Ann Coulter did the same thing are you doing


    More proof you're a fucking moron.

    >-- which is slandering the victims' families?


    Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like you.


    --
    ____________________


    George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    Supporting Bush is treason.
    _____________________


    JW
    ***************
    "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    you left no sense of decency?"
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    The New Face of the Republican Party
    http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr
    Joseph Welch, Apr 9, 2007
    #10
  11. In article <>
    "Joseph Welch" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > Aren't you aware Ann Coulter did the same thing are you doing

    >
    > More proof you're a fucking moron.
    >
    > >-- which is slandering the victims' families?

    >
    > Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like you.
    >
    >
    > --
    > ____________________
    >
    >
    > George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    > their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    > western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    > violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    > Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    > freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    > Supporting Bush is treason.
    > _____________________
    >
    >
    > JW
    > ***************
    > "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    > you left no sense of decency?"
    > http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    > The New Face of the Republican Party
    > http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr


    http://www.911pressfortruth.com/families

    The 9/11 Families
    Although independent investigations began within weeks of both Pearl
    Harbor and the Kennedy assassination, the same was not
    true of the attacks of September 11th. Most are unaware that
    formation of the 9/11 Commission was strongly opposed by many in
    Washington, including the Bush administration. It was only due to
    pressure from the 9/11 families, led by a particular twelve
    calling themselves the Family Steering Committee, that, fourteen
    months after the attacks, the first hearing finally began.
    These twelve remained active in monitoring the Commission’s
    investigation, providing a list of hundreds of specific, well-
    researched questions to the Commissioners. In the end, the Final
    Report failed to answer seventy percent of them.


    In ‘9/11 PRESS FOR TRUTH’, five of the most prominent members of the
    Family Steering Committee tell their story for the first
    time, providing the most powerful argument yet for why 9/11 still
    needs investigation.


    Lorie Van Auken
    One of the four famous “Jersey Girls”, Lorie is the widow of Kenneth
    Van Auken, 47, who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the
    105th floor of WTC Tower One. She served as a member of the Family
    Steering Committee for the 9/11 Commission, and with fellow
    widows Mindy Kleinberg, Patty Cazassa, Kristen Breitweiser, and
    Monica Gabrielle runs September 11th Advocates. She continues
    raising her children in east New Jersey.


    Mindy Kleinberg
    Another of the famous “Jersey Girls”, Mindy is the widow of Alan
    Kleinberg, 39, who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the 104th
    floor of WTC Tower One. She served as a member of the Family Steering
    Committee for the 9/11 Commission, and with fellow widows
    Lorie Van Auken, Patty Cazassa, Kristen Breitweiser, and Monica
    Gabrielle runs September 11th Advocates. She continues raising
    her children in east New Jersey.


    Patty Casazza
    A third famous “Jersey Girl”, Patty is the widow of John F. Casazza,
    who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the 104th floor of
    WTC Tower One. She was one of the twelve members of the Family
    Steering Committee for the 9/11 Commission, and with fellow
    widows Lorie Van Auken, Mindy Kleinberg, Kristen Breitweiser, and
    Monica Gabrielle serves on the board of September 11th
    Advocates. Originally from Colts Neck, New Jersey, she now lives in
    upstate New York.


    Monica Gabrielle
    Jokingly referred to by the others as “the fifth Jersey Girl”,
    Monica is the widow of Richard Gabrielle, who worked for Aon in
    WTC Tower Two. She was one of the twelve members of the Family
    Steering Committee for the 9/11 Commission, and with fellow
    widows Lorie Van Auken, Mindy Kleinberg, Kristen Breitweiser, and
    Monica Gabrielle serves on the board of September 11th
    Advocates. She is also co-chair of the Skyscraper Safety Campaign
    with Sally Regenhard. She continues to reside in Manhattan.


    Sally Regenhard
    Sally is the mother of Christian Michael Otto Regenhard, a Red Hook
    probationary firefighter, Ladder 131, who went missing at
    the WTC. She founded the Skyscraper Safety Campaign and co-chairs it
    with widow Monica Gabrielle. Sally continues to reside in
    Bronx, New York.


    Bob McIlvaine
    Bob is the father of Bobby McIlvaine, 26, Assistant V.P. of media
    relations at Merrill Lynch, who died in the attacks on the
    World Trade Center. A retired counselor to troubled teenagers and one-
    time tavern owner from Philadelphia, he was at the
    hospital in suburban Philadelphia where he worked with teenagers when
    he heard the news of the attack. Not a member of the
    Family Steering Committee, Bob became involved early on in the fight
    for an investigation, attending the families’ June 2002
    rally at the Capitol and subsequently joining Committee members at
    every Commission hearing. He continues to live with his wife
    in Pennsylvania.


    Can you really live with yourself after you call these people
    "morons" for questioning the events of 9/11? Please tell
    me you can. They *deserve* answers after their family members gave
    the ultimate sacrifice. But you refer to them as
    "morons."
    George Orwell, Apr 9, 2007
    #11
  12. In article <>
    "Joseph Welch" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > Aren't you aware Ann Coulter did the same thing are you doing

    >
    > More proof you're a fucking moron.
    >
    > >-- which is slandering the victims' families?

    >
    > Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like you.
    >
    >
    > --
    > ____________________
    >
    >
    > George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    > their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    > western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    > violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    > Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    > freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    > Supporting Bush is treason.
    > _____________________
    >
    >
    > JW
    > ***************
    > "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    > you left no sense of decency?"
    > http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    > The New Face of the Republican Party
    > http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr



    Basically in a nutshell, you are against the 9/11 families wishes to
    have a truly, independent, forensic investigation with
    subpoena power? But I am certain you would want a truly, independent,
    forensic investigation with subpoena power if one of your family
    members died on 9/11. This is all I am asking, because the families
    *deserve* to have all of the answers. All of them.
    George Orwell, Apr 9, 2007
    #12
  13. The Truth

    Fred Soenkes Guest

    Re: Please stop feeding this demented, cross-posting troll

    He needs professional help which he is not going to get from usenet.
    Fred Soenkes, Apr 9, 2007
    #13
  14. Re: Desperate shill surrenders

    "Fred Soenkes" <> wrote in message
    news:evclsd$ut4$03$-online.com...
    > He needs professional help which he is not going to get from usenet.


    Translation: "I surrender."
    What Me Worry?, Apr 9, 2007
    #14
  15. The Truth

    Joseph Welch Guest

    "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >> Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like you.


    > Can you really live with yourself after you call these people
    > "morons" for questioning the events of 9/11?


    You named six out of three thousand who somehow think that a 757 slamming
    into a building at 300 miles per hour isn't capable of knocking that
    building down.

    You're damn right I can live with myself by calling them - and you - morons.

    --
    ____________________


    George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    Supporting Bush is treason.
    _____________________


    JW
    ***************
    "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    you left no sense of decency?"
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    The New Face of the Republican Party
    http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr
    Joseph Welch, Apr 9, 2007
    #15
  16. The Truth

    Joseph Welch Guest

    "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >> Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like you.


    > Basically in a nutshell, you are against the 9/11 families wishes to
    > have a truly, independent, forensic investigation with
    > subpoena power?


    Basically, in a nutshell, I think that anyone who doesn't think that a 757
    slamming into a building at 300 miles per hour is capable of knocking that
    building down is a fucking wack-job.

    Their grief buys them no credibility on arguments and insane conspiracies.

    They - and you - are complete nutjobs.

    --
    ____________________


    George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
    their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
    western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
    violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
    Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
    freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
    Supporting Bush is treason.
    _____________________


    JW
    ***************
    "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
    you left no sense of decency?"
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
    The New Face of the Republican Party
    http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr
    Joseph Welch, Apr 9, 2007
    #16
  17. the_blogologist, Apr 9, 2007
    #17
  18. The Truth

    Al Dykes Guest

    In article <>,
    Joseph Welch <> wrote:
    >
    >"George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >
    >>> Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like you.

    >
    >> Can you really live with yourself after you call these people
    >> "morons" for questioning the events of 9/11?

    >
    >You named six out of three thousand who somehow think that a 757 slamming
    >into a building at 300 miles per hour isn't capable of knocking that
    >building down.
    >


    Strawman. Who says your sentance describes what happened at the
    Pentagon?

    As a long-time fan of r.p.d and someone who tries to respect Usenet
    group charters, I would never start an off-sopic thread. I will post
    exactly one article that shown (a) the evidence that exists for teh
    757 at the Penatgon that the Truthies would have us believe doesn;t
    exist, and the many cases that the Truthies have edited quotes they
    offer us to remove words that would show us that people didn't say
    what the Truthies want us to beleive. Each one is fully documented.


    -----------------------------------------
    The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows
    http://www.911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

    Pictures of the Pentagon on 9-11
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

    http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf

    Details of engine parts found at Pentagon
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

    More eye witnesses same-day reporting
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html

    Transcript of CNN broadcast of 1PM 9-11, eyewitness
    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.32.html

    Perdue simulation of 757 impact
    http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

    DNA matches with family members matches all but one of Pax on Flt77
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A61202-2001Nov20?language=printer

    -----------------------------------------------------


    There is a pattern and practice of some people in the "Truth Movement"
    committing fraud and a huge echo chamber of people mindlessly
    repeating things. I check quotes, That's how I came across this crap.

    There is *zero* effort by the Truthies to fact check and correct their
    own material. The worst are the alleged "peer reviewed" sites. They
    contain fraudlent quotes by NYFD/EMS personel that can be shown to
    differ from the public record. One of the steps in peer review is
    fact checking.

    Examples;

    From many Truthy site; http://www.911lies.org/fire_fighters_911_wtc_tapes.html

    It was like a professional demolition where they set the charges on
    certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."
    - NYC Paramedic Daniel Rivera

    The Truthies edited Rivera's text to make it clear what he saw. Here it is.

    Q: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN
    A: THAT NOISE IT WAS NOISE
    Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR WHAT DID YOU SEE
    A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE.
    AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL
    DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN
    FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR POP POP POP POP
    POP THAVS EXACTLY WHAT BECAUSE THOUGHT
    IT WASTHAT WHEN HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE
    THAVS WHEN SAWTHE BUILDING COMING DOWN
    Q: WHAT DID YOU DO
    A: RUN MOST OF THE PEOPLE RAN INTO THE

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110035.PDF


    If you think the NYT site lies, I can put you in touch with Rivera'a
    union rep and you can accuse him of saying things he didn't say,
    maybe to his face.

    Here is the page of official testimony for about 500 first responders.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packag...12_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

    You can check lots of trythy quotes here, and if the Truty site says
    something different, it's not impossible to contact any of them and
    verify quote.

    I first came across these fraud edited NYFD quotes on Jones' "peer
    reviewed" 911 site. (there are more misleadingly edited quotes
    there). One task of peer review is fact checking. It's clear that the
    site is bullshit.


    That's enough of the fine people in NYFD and EMS. Here are more;

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Many sites have quotes similar to this;

    Danielle O'Brien commenting on how air traffic
    controllers thought Flight 77 was a military plane based on
    its maneuverability;
    http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/aerobatics.html

    but it leaves out the end of the statement,
    "... you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."

    My point isn't that the quote is goldplate accurate,
    it's that the Truthies have edited pertenant info out,
    not told us, and not given URLs to sources.


    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Loose Change quotes the coroner, Wally Miller,
    as seeing no bodies or blood the day of Flight 93's crash;
    over the next several weeks Miller goes on to identify 12
    passengers "using mostly dental records."[31]

    http://www.postgazette.com/headlines/20011003crash1003p3.asp

    ------------------------------------------------------

    There are quotes like thisinterview of chief flight instructor Marcel
    Bernard focusing on the weaknesses of Hani Hanjour's flying skills
    when he took

    Flight Academy] Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite,
    meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said,
    they considered him a very bad pilot. "I'm still to this day amazed
    that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee
    said. "He could not fly at all.


    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hanjour.html

    It fails to clarify Bernard's expert opinion on Hanjour's ability to
    hit the Pentagon. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that
    [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a
    building and hit it."


    http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/nynewsday_sep23.html

    -------------------------



    http://www.911lies.org/fire_fighters_911_wtc_tapes.html


    ---------

    My favorite example of how these conspiracy theorists such as the guys
    behind Loose Change selectively edit information in order to get the
    desired conclusion is the CNN interview with the guy outside the
    Pentagon right after the plane hit. The guy said (and I'm
    paraphrasing) "It was a red and blue plane, clearly a United Jet, and
    it crashed into the side of the Pentagon. It looked like a missile
    when it was coming toward the building and there was a giant explosion
    when I saw the plane hit the building." The conspiracy theorists edit
    out everything except for "It looked like a missile" and use that as
    absolute proof that a missile and not a plane hit the Pentagon.

    -----------


    I've been asking for months about where this 35 seconds of video came
    from. I'd like to know what the Truthies edited out, given the above.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060923273573302287

    -----------




    Home
    Arabs and Osama
    First Time in History
    The Fires
    The Twin Towers
    World Trade Cener 7
    The Free Fall Fallacy
    Molten Steel Explained
    Sounds of Explosions
    The Firemans Quotes
    Civil Engineers Quotes
    Peer Reviewed Paper
    Professor Steven E Jones
    Massive Conspriracy
    The Real Conspiracy
    Government Planning
    The 911 Zogby Poll
    Debunking 911 Links


    Quotes

    .I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?.--Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory

    Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking out of context...

    I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

    Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?

    A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.

    I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.

    http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
    /Gregory_Stephen.txt

    Let me guess why they left that important part out..

    .t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic Daniel Rivera

    SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I LIKE SAID, I DON'T KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDN'T FEEL SAFE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.

    THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.

    Q: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?

    A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.

    Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?

    A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN I SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
    /9110035.PDF

    First, notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do TERRORIST DO? So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit buildings constructed like this and the collapse of this odd combination.

    .There was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse." --Chief Frank Cruthers

    there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. it appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides

    http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
    /Cruthers.txt

    And why wouldn't floors falling around the building NOT APPEAR to be an EXPLOSION... :blink:

    "I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.. --Paramedic Kevin Darnowski

    Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other. Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
    /9110202.PDF

    And here is the outright LIE...

    . we heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down.. -- Firefighter Craig Carlsen

    Note where these liars put the "...."

    Now for the REAL quote...

    I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
    /9110505.PDF

    With that alone I should rest my case. ;) These CT sites are dishonest.

    Here is the other lie, they split up those quotes to make it seem like there are more people hearing explosions than there really are. You have paramedic Daniel Rivera's interview split in two and Stephen Gregory's interview split in two, as if there are different people hearing different explosions. They flood you with quotes hoping you won't notice. What other reason would they have for splitting them up???

    .Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." -- Captain Karin Deshore

    MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.

    GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "IT'S BLOWING".

    I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CAN'T EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I

    KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION.

    ...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT

    IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDN'T KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING

    SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE. THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.

    It's time to see a transformer explosion.

    http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electric-Transformer-Explosion

    All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.

    SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
    /9110192.PDF

    .I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion.. -- Captain Jay Swithers

    When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up the tank, you could hear a loud rumble. Somebody said run for your life. I turned to see who was yelling "run".

    At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

    But one thing that did happen was an ambulance pulled up which was very clean. So I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
    /9110172.PDF

    First he heard the rumble. Not the so called "Explosion" which he never saw. Then he thought he heard an explosion because he saw the debris falling away from the building. He had TERRORIST on his mind and jumped to the conclusion that it was a bomb. You don't have to be a psychologist here.

    Fire officer Paul Isaac Jr. asserted that 9-11 was an inside job last September 11 at ground zero where mourners and protesters were gathered; .I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it.s an inside job; and the firemen know it too., said Isaac.

    "there were definitely bombs in those buildings,. Isaac added that .many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they.re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the .higher-ups. forbid discussion of this fact.. --Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman Paul Isaac

    Paul Isaac never said anything of the kind. Another Conspiracy Theorist deception.

    A video is shown on just about every conspiracy web site which shows a few fireman discussing what they heard and saw.



    fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
    fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.
    fireman2: 2 blocks.
    fireman1: and we started runnin'
    fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
    fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out .
    fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det.
    fireman1: yea detonated yea
    fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
    boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom.

    In the context of reading it off a conspiracy site, this may sound like damning evidence. They are saying .detonated. and .they had planned to take down a building.. They even say .Boom. to describe the sound. But if you hear the other things they.re saying, their body language and context outside the conspiracy theory setting, something else emerges. Before or after every description is .As if.. .As if they had planned to take down a building.. .It was as if as if they had detonated.. They also use body language to show it was the sound of the floors crashing into one another.



    boom- (hand moves down)

    boom- (hand moves down)

    boom- (hand moves down)

    boom- (hand moves down)

    boom- (hand moves down)

    boom- (hand moves down)

    boom- (hand moves down)

    boom.

    This could be just as powerful evidence of pancaking as the use of explosives. But the real evidence isn.t so much examining the video as examining the actions taken, or NOT taken, by the NYC Fire Department after the event. The NYC Fire Department hasn.t rallied its members to force an investigation into the possible murder of over 300 of its members. Some sites offer an explanation of this saying there was a gag order placed on the Fire Department. The only place you will find this is on conspiracy theory sites. No mention from main stream press about the hundreds if not thousands of fireman on the scene not being allowed to talk.

    A glaring example of picking and choosing what to focus on is the interview with Mary Baldizzi... They point to a BBC article that says

    The jet fuel caused the fire to spread so far and so fast that it effectively cut the building into two. For the 6,000 people below where the plane had hit the staircases still offered a means of escape, but for the 950 caught above the point of impact and the fire there was no way out.

    The argument is made that towers fell because of separate detonations. As proof, they offered the case of Mary Baldizzi who supposedly had escaped the 104th floor of the World Trade Center's North Tower by elevator. Thus, the only way she could have escaped via elevator was if the core was intact at least to the 104th floor.

    When I watched the video, I thought, if there had been a survivor from above the impact zone in Tower 1, it would have been widely broadcast. So, logically, I searched online for either confirmation or repudiation. I found neither. What I did find was the repeated use of Ms. Baldizzi's story as evidence in various alternative theories (i.e., other than fire) for the collapse of the towers.

    Returning to the original video, I watched it several more times. After listening closely to Ms. Baldizzi's interview, I came to the conclusion that Mary Baldizzi was not on the 104th floor of the North Tower (WTC1) but was on the 104th floor of the South Tower (WTC2) and that this was a misrepresentation of her escape as having been from WTC1. Here are the reasons I came to this conclusion:

    1. Although the newswomen began the interview stating that Mary Baldizzi had come down the elevators from the 104th floor and was in the "first tower when it was struck," at no time during the interview does Ms. Baldizzi state that she was in the North Tower. In addition, none of the graphics that accompany the interview claim that Ms. Baldizzi was in the North Tower. When Ms. Baldizzi is asked if she felt the impact, she says "Oh yeah." But the effects she describes -- feeling the heat, experiencing the shaking, hearing the explosion -- are all effects experienced by those who were in the South Tower on the floors adjacent to the impact zone (see:
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-02-choices-usat_x.htm ). If she had been in the North Tower when it was hit then she would have described the impact in much less casual terms.

    2. Around 5 minutes and 20 seconds into the interview, the interviewers ask about Ms. Baldizzi's coworkers. Ms. Baldizzi's states that she does not know the whereabouts of her fellow employees and proceeds to state, around 5:55 of the interview, that she has no way of contacting them other than to "call [the] main office in Illinois." Now, the offices on the 104th floor of the North Tower were occupied exclusively by Cantor Fitzgerald, while offices on the 104th floor of the South Tower were occupied by Sandler O'Neill (see: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants1.html). Cantor Fitzgerald does not have a main office in Illinois (see: http://www.cantor.com/contact/). Sandler O'Neill, on the other hand, does have a central office in Chicago (see: http://www.sandleroneill.com/). This suggests that Ms. Baldizzi was an employee of Sandler O'Neill (in the South Tower) rather than Cantor Fitzgerald (in the North Tower).

    3. Finally, and conclusively, at 6:15 in the interview Ms. Baldizzi begins a discussion about what she and her coworkers did when they exited the building. She clearly says: "There were police officers, thank God, that were aiming us towards Liberty St. because we stupidly walked towards One World Trade because we didn't know; we had no idea it was a terrorist attack." Now, if Ms. Baldizzi had been in One World Trade Center (i.e., the North Tower) there is no way she would have described her egress as "towards One Word Trade" because no matter in which direction she walked she would have been going away from One World Trade. This point proves, beyond any doubt, that Ms. Baldizzi exited from the South Tower and that the mistaken announcement at the beginning of the interview that she was in the North Tower was just one of the miscommunications and misunderstandings in the chaos of those early days.

    I concluded that Ms. Baldizzi exited Tower 2 at the same time many others in the building did: after the North Tower was hit but before the South Tower was hit. If she was "dragged" into the elevator within seconds after the first tower was hit, and if the elevator ride took about 4 minutes, she would've been out of the building well before the South Tower was hit.

    USA Today

    As you can see the South Tower core was not damaged as much because of large, heavily constructed elevator equipment which protected it anyway.

    There were two freight elevators that serviced the 104th floor.

    Cars #6 and #50 serviced the 104th floor, lobby and basement levels.

    ----------

    . Car #5: B1-5, 7, 9-40, 44
    . Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 *
    . Car #17: B1-1, 41, 43-78
    . Car #48: B1-7, 9-40
    . Car #49: B1-5, 41-74
    . Car #50: B6-108 *
    . Car #99: 107-110

    There were two express elevators to Windows on the World (and related conference rooms and banquet facilities) in WTC 1 and two to the observation deck in WTC 2.

    pg 34 (adobe pg 72)

    NIST NCSTAR 1-7 (Draft)

    Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
    Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communications (Draft)

    There were firemen who radioed in after being stuck in the elevator moments before the south tower collapsed.

    http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/wtcaudio/wtcaudio8.html

    So there were elevators working in the south tower AFTER the impact. But what's important here is that the interview is being taken out of context. A theme which seems to run strong with these conspiracy theorists.

    Thanks to Scott S Coastal and Drval.

    --
    a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
    Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001
    Al Dykes, Apr 9, 2007
    #18
  19. "Joseph Welch" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>> Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like
    >>> you.

    >
    >> Basically in a nutshell, you are against the 9/11 families wishes to
    >> have a truly, independent, forensic investigation with
    >> subpoena power?

    >
    > Basically, in a nutshell, I think that anyone who doesn't think that a 757
    > slamming into a building at 300 miles per hour is capable of knocking that
    > building down is a fucking wack-job.


    NIST says the airplane hits didn't cause the collapses. Are you calling
    them wack jobs?
    What Me Worry?, Apr 10, 2007
    #19
  20. "Joseph Welch" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>> Sorry, but the vast majority of victims families aren't nutjobs like
    >>> you.

    >
    >> Can you really live with yourself after you call these people
    >> "morons" for questioning the events of 9/11?

    >
    > You named six out of three thousand who somehow think that a 757 slamming
    > into a building at 300 miles per hour isn't capable of knocking that
    > building down.


    NIST says the airplane hits did not cause the collapses. Are you calling
    them morons?

    > You're damn right I can live with myself by calling them - and you -
    > morons.


    So you don't believe the NIST report that says fire weakened the 47 massive
    22"-wide 4-inch-thick inner columns so badly that they snapped like
    matchsticks at a rate of 10 floors per second?
    What Me Worry?, Apr 10, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Doug MacLean
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    685
    Doug MacLean
    Oct 24, 2006
  2. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    272
    Paul Heslop
    Sep 10, 2005
  3. Replies:
    0
    Views:
    608
  4. The Truth
    Replies:
    127
    Views:
    1,941
    * US *
    Apr 23, 2007
  5. chuckie®

    OT: Proof that the World is...NUTS

    chuckie®, Oct 12, 2008, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    512
    Ghostintheshell
    Oct 13, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page