Xtras spam filtering doesn't work.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Rob, Feb 14, 2006.

  1. Rob

    Rob Guest

    Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through on
    my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
    delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
    coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is working
    anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses 'Brightmail',
    but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be Symantec. I have
    another email account with another company, and the spam filtering uses
    death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam. Anyone else having
    a problem with xtras spam filtering service?
    Rob, Feb 14, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Rob

    XPD Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
    > Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
    > on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
    > delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
    > coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is working
    > anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses
    > 'Brightmail', but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be
    > Symantec. I have another email account with another company, and the spam
    > filtering uses death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam.
    > Anyone else having a problem with xtras spam filtering service?
    >


    My reply to a similar post a while ago....


    "Who Am I" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have noticed that since Xtra started selling their internet security
    > "package" (what ever that is), there seems to be more spam coming
    > through, now if I were of a suspicious nature I would be inclined to say
    > they have made their filters "leaky" to encourage you to pay for their
    > new system.
    >
    > Before they started selling it I got 1-4 spams a month, now I can get
    > 2-3 a day coming though.
    >
    > I don't run windows so I can't (and don't want anyway) their pay for
    > security suite.
    >
    > Anyone else have thoughts about this....


    You hit it right on the head.
    Bascially the ISP (and I know of a few that have done this) still offers a
    basic filter for those who dont want the "best" filter.... the basic one
    gets updated maybe once a month if youre lucky and the "best" one gets
    updated everyday.... eventually (they hope) you'll swap to the better
    one.....

    Easiest thing to do is to start running your own mailserver......... :)
    XPD, Feb 14, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Rob

    PC Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
    > Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
    > on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
    > delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
    > coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is working
    > anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses
    > 'Brightmail', but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be
    > Symantec. I have another email account with another company, and the spam
    > filtering uses death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam.
    > Anyone else having a problem with xtras spam filtering service?
    >



    Rob

    I concur with your assessment of Xtra's Spam filter performance.
    i.e. it's currently "Crap" (tm)

    Particularly since Xmas the percentage of detected Spam has been falling to
    the point where this morning over 30% of the Spam in my inbox had not been
    detected and marked with the [SPAM] tag.

    Reasons

    There has been speculation that they want users to take up their paid for
    McAfee Virus/Spyware/Spam service and to encourage such have been letting
    their Brightmail performance slip. (Brightmail is owned by Symantec)
    Perhaps the sloth like performance of Symantec's other products is being
    introduced to the Brightmail service.
    The McAfee suite is not being taken up in my opinion because it is (a)
    Grossly unsuitable for a lot of machines Xtra's clients use. (b) Overly
    expensive for a rental product.

    The other reason is of course tied in with the longer political game that is
    going on over the Regulation / Speed / Infrastructure / Marketing /
    Proprietry stance that Xtra(Telecom) seems determined to blunder through.

    2c
    Paul.
    PC, Feb 14, 2006
    #3
  4. "PC" <> wrote in message
    news:KB9If.146234$...
    > "Rob" <> wrote in message
    > news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
    >> Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
    >> on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to
    >> automatically


    I've love to know what people think of ISP's Spam Filtering..
    A Comment that Xtra's doesnt' work "that well", but what about
    Paradise/Orcon
    IHUG/ICONZ etc. What are people's experiences of other ISP's.

    Thanks
    Craig
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #4
  5. Rob

    Invisible Guest

    On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:55:12 +1300, "Craig Whitmore" <>
    wrote:

    >I've love to know what people think of ISP's Spam Filtering..
    >A Comment that Xtra's doesnt' work "that well", but what about
    >Paradise/Orcon
    >IHUG/ICONZ etc. What are people's experiences of other ISP's.


    I get around 6-10 a day on Paradise. Just checked the Spam Folder in the
    webmail, and it's caught 5 today so far.
    Invisible, Feb 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Rob

    Lynn Guest

    Invisible wrote:
    > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:55:12 +1300, "Craig Whitmore" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I've love to know what people think of ISP's Spam Filtering..
    >>A Comment that Xtra's doesnt' work "that well", but what about
    >>Paradise/Orcon
    >>IHUG/ICONZ etc. What are people's experiences of other ISP's.

    >
    >
    > I get around 6-10 a day on Paradise. Just checked the Spam Folder in the
    > webmail, and it's caught 5 today so far.
    >
    >

    Before xmas I used to get probably less than 10 a day, since then it has
    steadily been building up and I am now getting more like thirty or forty
    , if not more as some days I download my mail more than once. I am with
    xtra and had the spam filter set to delete all
    spam. it is now pretty useless. I use mailwasher as well and this gets
    rid of it for me but i dont see how xtra can say they are filtering out
    the spam when it is pouring through its filters at this rate.
    Lynn, Feb 14, 2006
    #6
  7. Rob

    Dave Taylor Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1:

    > Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming
    > through on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to
    > automatically delete spam from the server, however I am still getting
    > about 10-20 spam coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam
    > filtering is working anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It
    > says it uses 'Brightmail', but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and
    > now looks to be Symantec. I have another email account with another
    > company, and the spam filtering uses death2spam, and that seems to
    > detect almost all the spam. Anyone else having a problem with xtras
    > spam filtering service?
    >
    >


    What you call spam is most likely what I would call spam too, BUT, unless
    your spam filter has a method of allowing you to flag safe and unsafe
    content to train it, and fine tune it for your personal tastes, then the
    majority of spam will get through as it changes to avoid filters.

    I turned off my paradise spam filter and I get about 10 a day to my
    account. I keep it all. The reason I keep it is that when you decide to
    take matters into your own hands and make your own filter using something
    like k-9, or even clark connect, then you have some to pre-feed the
    database with. I have found that Office 2003 does a good enough job at the
    moment.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
    Dave Taylor, Feb 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Rob

    Craig Sutton Guest

    "Craig Whitmore" <> wrote in message
    news:43f12cbc$...
    > "PC" <> wrote in message
    > news:KB9If.146234$...
    > > "Rob" <> wrote in message
    > > news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
    > >> Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming

    through
    > >> on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to
    > >> automatically

    >
    > I've love to know what people think of ISP's Spam Filtering..
    > A Comment that Xtra's doesnt' work "that well", but what about
    > Paradise/Orcon
    > IHUG/ICONZ etc. What are people's experiences of other ISP's.
    >

    The one on Ihug works very very well
    Craig Sutton, Feb 14, 2006
    #8
  9. Rob

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1>, "Rob" <>
    wrote:

    > Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through on
    > my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
    > delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
    > coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is working
    > anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses 'Brightmail',
    > but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be Symantec. I have
    > another email account with another company, and the spam filtering uses
    > death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam. Anyone else having
    > a problem with xtras spam filtering service?


    A month or so back I was getting 3-7 spams a WEEK, now I am getting
    10-20 a DAY.

    I now check the spam manually via the web page and move it into another
    folder, this has the effect of leaving the spam on Xtras servers.

    My view is if they want to save money by supplying a CRAP service, then
    they can keep the spam on their servers and has the issues of storage,
    back-up etc.

    Thus far over the last 10 days I have about 1Meg of spam stored there,
    now imagine what would happen if all 200,000 users did the same..... in
    a month they would be looking at storing, backing up and maintaining a
    TeraByte of spam or more !

    Apart from that, I have now set up a GMail account. This has the
    advantage that:
    1) They supply a lot more storage than Xtra do
    2) They have far better spam filtering
    3) They has POP access from anywhere in the world (no more of xtras
    crappy webmail system)
    4) If you change ISPs then you do not loose your email address.
    whoisthis, Feb 14, 2006
    #9

  10. >>

    > The one on Ihug works very very well
    >
    >

    Can you give any Stats?

    For example you got 1000 email over the last month, 800 of them
    where spam correctly classified. 50 Spams where not classified as
    spam and it got 5 false positives thinking valid emails where spam

    Thanks
    Craig
    ..
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #10
  11. Rob

    PC Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
    > Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
    > on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
    > delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
    > coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is working
    > anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses
    > 'Brightmail', but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be
    > Symantec. I have another email account with another company, and the spam
    > filtering uses death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam.
    > Anyone else having a problem with xtras spam filtering service?
    >




    For various reasons I have been monitoring a clients xtra account for just
    over 1 year now, reporting all the unmarked spam to then
    clearing out the inbox.
    The email address in question is not one the client wishes to abandon and so
    even though it was being deluged we felt it may be worth perservering with.
    The Spam is from Oriental sources.
    Xtra's Spam filter was turned on to automatically divert to a spam folder.
    Weekly visits forwarded all untagged spam to in unicode to
    preserve the full character information.

    So how has it worked.

    Tonights 'clearance' 84 emails in (all spam) 17 in the spam folder, 67 in
    the inbox.
    Around a 25% detection rate, not a stellar performance is it!
    Particularly as many of the spam come from the same senders we were getting
    12 months ago.
    The 'best' tag rate was a month ago when it finally hit around 30% tag rate,
    it's gone down hill since then.

    All in all as of tonight I have forwarded 11,313 untagged Spam emails to
    .
    Thats the negative, the positive?

    Well lets just say oh what a 'Valued' customer I feel.

    about '2c'

    PeeCee.
    PC, Feb 14, 2006
    #11
  12. Rob

    EMB Guest

    Craig Whitmore wrote:

    > Can you give any Stats?


    Approx 400 correctly identified spams, 14 that slipped past the filter,
    and no false detections (amongst 40 legit emails) in the last week on an
    ihug email address I have used unmunged on usenet over the last few
    years. And I've not got it set to the highest level of filtering.


    --
    EMB
    EMB, Feb 14, 2006
    #12
  13. Rob

    Rob Guest

    "whoisthis" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1>, "Rob" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
    >> on
    >> my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
    >> delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
    >> coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is
    >> working
    >> anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses
    >> 'Brightmail',
    >> but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be Symantec. I
    >> have
    >> another email account with another company, and the spam filtering uses
    >> death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam. Anyone else
    >> having
    >> a problem with xtras spam filtering service?

    >
    > A month or so back I was getting 3-7 spams a WEEK, now I am getting
    > 10-20 a DAY.
    >
    > I now check the spam manually via the web page and move it into another
    > folder, this has the effect of leaving the spam on Xtras servers.
    >
    > My view is if they want to save money by supplying a CRAP service, then
    > they can keep the spam on their servers and has the issues of storage,
    > back-up etc.
    >
    > Thus far over the last 10 days I have about 1Meg of spam stored there,
    > now imagine what would happen if all 200,000 users did the same..... in
    > a month they would be looking at storing, backing up and maintaining a
    > TeraByte of spam or more !
    >
    > Apart from that, I have now set up a GMail account. This has the
    > advantage that:
    > 1) They supply a lot more storage than Xtra do
    > 2) They have far better spam filtering
    > 3) They has POP access from anywhere in the world (no more of xtras
    > crappy webmail system)
    > 4) If you change ISPs then you do not loose your email address.



    Xtra have told me that since xmas, alot more spam has been getting through
    and they are struggling with it all, as a lot of it is targeted at xtra
    customers email address. Leaving your spam on the server will only affect
    your mailboxes performance. This is because xtra only give you 12MB of
    diskspace. I used to let xtras spam filter put it all into a spam folder
    too, but within a few months, it had used up all my disksapce, and emails
    that were sent to me were bouncing back to the sender as there was no space
    in my email account.
    Rob, Feb 14, 2006
    #13

  14. >
    > Tonights 'clearance' 84 emails in (all spam) 17 in the spam folder, 67 in
    > the inbox.
    > Around a 25% detection rate, not a stellar performance is it!
    > Particularly as many of the spam come from the same senders we were
    > getting 12 months ago.
    > The 'best' tag rate was a month ago when it finally hit around 30% tag
    > rate, it's gone down hill since then.


    25%-30% detection rate.. is really bad.. Spam filtering should get 99%+
    IMHO to be any good. With False POssitives rates of 99.9%+

    Thanks
    Craig
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #14
  15. >
    >> Can you give any Stats?

    >
    > Approx 400 correctly identified spams, 14 that slipped past the filter,
    > and no false detections (amongst 40 legit emails) in the last week on an
    > ihug email address I have used unmunged on usenet over the last few years.
    > And I've not got it set to the highest level of filtering.


    So 96.5% Accuracy Rate, with 0% False Possitive Rate.

    Thanks
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #15
  16. > Xtra have told me that since xmas, alot more spam has been getting through
    > and they are struggling with it all, as a lot of it is targeted at xtra
    > customers email address.


    Spammers make better spam which looks more like valid email.. So
    Anti-Spam systems have to move with the trend. Yes.. Spam has
    increased (a little) but most modern Anti-Spam systems should be
    able to keep up with it and learn as new types of spam come across.

    Spammers are using new techniques such as putting the spam in an
    image, putting "noise" in the spam (lots of valid words to make the
    rating of valid->spam tokens up), but antispam systems can easily
    get past this and see it as spam. Computers these day can have a
    better accuracy rate in seeing spam and a human does :)

    Different types of spam come in.. like Stock Spam (give certain stocks
    a good name so people buy it) and the good old 419 Spam. It will
    never dissapear until people STOP buying the products that people
    advertise.

    Thanks
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #16
  17. Rob

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 22:37:26 +1300, Craig Whitmore wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> Tonights 'clearance' 84 emails in (all spam) 17 in the spam folder, 67 in
    >> the inbox.
    >> Around a 25% detection rate, not a stellar performance is it!
    >> Particularly as many of the spam come from the same senders we were
    >> getting 12 months ago.
    >> The 'best' tag rate was a month ago when it finally hit around 30% tag
    >> rate, it's gone down hill since then.

    >
    > 25%-30% detection rate.. is really bad.. Spam filtering should get 99%+
    > IMHO to be any good. With False POssitives rates of 99.9%+
    >
    > Thanks
    > Craig


    I think you mean a false positive of 0.1% or less? It really hacks me off
    that there's a kiwi product out there that cuts my spam down from 500/day
    to 3/week with my first flase positive of the year today ( standard mail
    from suse ), and people like telstra go for massively expensive US
    products like Brightmail - and don't size their boxes properly either.

    And people like xtra will force a third rate solution at extra cost to
    their customers by (at least it looks like this top me) removing all spam
    blocks if you don't pay!

    My $0.02,


    Steve

    Humph!

    Steve
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #17
  18. Rob

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:29:31 +1300, Rob wrote:

    >
    > "whoisthis" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> In article <1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1>, "Rob" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
    >>> on
    >>> my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
    >>> delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
    >>> coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is
    >>> working
    >>> anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses
    >>> 'Brightmail',
    >>> but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be Symantec. I
    >>> have
    >>> another email account with another company, and the spam filtering uses
    >>> death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam. Anyone else
    >>> having
    >>> a problem with xtras spam filtering service?

    >>
    >> A month or so back I was getting 3-7 spams a WEEK, now I am getting
    >> 10-20 a DAY.
    >>
    >> I now check the spam manually via the web page and move it into another
    >> folder, this has the effect of leaving the spam on Xtras servers.
    >>
    >> My view is if they want to save money by supplying a CRAP service, then
    >> they can keep the spam on their servers and has the issues of storage,
    >> back-up etc.
    >>
    >> Thus far over the last 10 days I have about 1Meg of spam stored there,
    >> now imagine what would happen if all 200,000 users did the same..... in
    >> a month they would be looking at storing, backing up and maintaining a
    >> TeraByte of spam or more !
    >>
    >> Apart from that, I have now set up a GMail account. This has the
    >> advantage that:
    >> 1) They supply a lot more storage than Xtra do
    >> 2) They have far better spam filtering
    >> 3) They has POP access from anywhere in the world (no more of xtras
    >> crappy webmail system)
    >> 4) If you change ISPs then you do not loose your email address.

    >
    >
    > Xtra have told me that since xmas, alot more spam has been getting through
    > and they are struggling with it all, as a lot of it is targeted at xtra
    > customers email address. Leaving your spam on the server will only affect
    > your mailboxes performance. This is because xtra only give you 12MB of
    > diskspace. I used to let xtras spam filter put it all into a spam folder
    > too, but within a few months, it had used up all my disksapce, and emails
    > that were sent to me were bouncing back to the sender as there was no space
    > in my email account.


    B*ll*cks for the first, and not really true for the second, unless you
    have thousands of really small emails. If they offer an IMAP solution,
    then take it, especially if they guarantee not to lose any of your mail!

    Steve.
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #18
  19. Rob

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 22:42:38 +1300, Craig Whitmore wrote:

    >>
    >>> Can you give any Stats?

    >>
    >> Approx 400 correctly identified spams, 14 that slipped past the filter,
    >> and no false detections (amongst 40 legit emails) in the last week on an
    >> ihug email address I have used unmunged on usenet over the last few years.
    >> And I've not got it set to the highest level of filtering.

    >
    > So 96.5% Accuracy Rate, with 0% False Possitive Rate.
    >
    > Thanks


    In the last year:

    Emails received 76213
    Emails quarantined 15804

    Number got through average 3 / week - say 150 total

    False positives 1

    So 99% accuracy, 0.0063% false positives.

    1 kiwi product using a spam database, ordb and spamhaus rbls, and bayesian
    filtering.

    Not too shabby. Maybe we should approach xtra???

    Steve.
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #19
  20. "> I think you mean a false positive of 0.1% or less? It really hacks me off
    > that there's a kiwi product out there that cuts my spam down from 500/day
    > to 3/week with my first flase positive of the year today ( standard mail
    > from suse ), and people like telstra go for massively expensive US
    > products like Brightmail - and don't size their boxes properly either.
    >


    Yes 0.1% FP.

    I presume your talking about MailWasher.. Yes it works.. but alot of
    people hate it due to (I think its still in it). the option of "bouncing
    emails"
    which could (in theory) get you kicked off your ISP for breaking its
    T&C for forging emails. Personally I have warned people of using
    its feature in the past when it first came out.

    (See: http://www.blakjak.net/node/134 )


    > And people like xtra will force a third rate solution at extra cost to
    > their customers by (at least it looks like this top me) removing all spam
    > blocks if you don't pay!


    The problem I see (at the moment) there really had been no Spam
    Filtering "Bakeoffs" between Various Spam Systems (100's of them)
    Brightmail, D2S, DSpam, SpamAssassin.... Yes they all "work" but
    compared to each other. 90% 95%, 99%. accuracy..what do people
    accept.

    Thanks
    Craig
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #20
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