Xtra

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by J.Wilson, Aug 20, 2006.

  1. J.Wilson

    J.Wilson Guest

    "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:ecbok6$5jl$...

    > Erm, just to be a little pedantic. The above doesnt mean you can actually
    > use it. Recently I surveyed all of the ISP's I could find for NNTP
    > servers, by checking their websites, and making a connection to port 119

    of
    > their (normally) advertised nntp servers.
    > Several servers replied to me that posting was OK (As in your example)
    > Perplexed at what I thought was a serious security issue, I asked around

    and
    > hit was suggested to me to attempt to get a list of the Newsgroups carried
    > by the server (using the 'list' command)
    > The NNTP servers that appeared to be open (all coincidentally were dnews)
    > *all* told me they required authentication before they would list (which

    is
    > a good thing)


    Paradise specifically told me there was no reason why I
    should not be able to connect to their news server.
    Xtra specifically told me it was not possible to access
    other Isp's news servers through their servers.
    So, I know the problem is with Xtra.
    If there is nothing they can do about it , fair enough,
    but if they are just being nasty I can go see them at
    their head office nearby Karangahape Road (been there
    before :) ) and have a go.
    J.Wilson, Aug 20, 2006
    #1
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  2. J.Wilson

    J.Wilson Guest

    "Mark C" <> wrote in message
    news:44e98782$0$12564$...
    > "J.Wilson" <> wrote in
    > news:44e97248$:
    >
    > > Paradise specifically told me there was no reason why I
    > > should not be able to connect to their news server.

    >
    > That Paradise helpdesk person does not know what they are talking
    > about.
    >
    > > Xtra specifically told me it was not possible to access
    > > other Isp's news servers through their servers.

    >
    > That Xtra helpdesk person does not know what they are talking about.
    >
    > Did you try the telnet test that Dave suggested?


    Yes. ok through Paradise. No go through Xtra.
    J.Wilson, Aug 20, 2006
    #2
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  3. J.Wilson

    J.Wilson Guest

    "Mauricio Freitas [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:44e98df1$...

    > The Paradise help desk person probably does not know what "news server"

    is,
    > and is probably thinking of "email server".
    >
    > The nntp server is not accessible to users outside the Paradise network


    Well, that's clear enough. I might try Paradise again
    tomorrow.
    Thanks everybody for responses.

    John
    J.Wilson, Aug 20, 2006
    #3
  4. J.Wilson

    J.Wilson Guest

    We have an adsl account with Xtra and a dialup account with Paradise.
    We can access our paradise mail account through Xtra but not
    Paradise news server. Paradise help desk say
    Xtra are blocking access to their news server. Xtra say it is not
    possible for them to provide access to newsgroups through other
    Isps even though I can access aioe and teranews.
    Is this because they really can't do it or because they are intentionally
    blocking it?

    John

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    J.Wilson, Aug 21, 2006
    #4
  5. J.Wilson

    Allistar Guest

    J.Wilson wrote:

    > We have an adsl account with Xtra and a dialup account with Paradise.
    > We can access our paradise mail account through Xtra but not
    > Paradise news server. Paradise help desk say
    > Xtra are blocking access to their news server. Xtra say it is not
    > possible for them to provide access to newsgroups through other
    > Isps even though I can access aioe and teranews.
    > Is this because they really can't do it or because they are intentionally
    > blocking it?


    I'd say they are intentionally blocking it. Saying they "cannot provide
    access to newsgroups through other ISPs" is garbage. Traffic is traffic,
    and all traffic should get through unless either end it blocking it, or not
    letting you in because of authentication reasons.

    Note that Paradise probably authenticate you by your IP address, and if it
    is dished up by them then they'll let you talk to their NNTP (i.e. news)
    server. If you're logged in through another ISP it's likely that Paradise
    won't authenticate you (which makes sense - they only want paying customers
    use a service they provide).

    Allistar.
    Allistar, Aug 21, 2006
    #5
  6. J.Wilson

    Shane Guest

    Allistar wrote:


    > Note that Paradise probably authenticate you by your IP address, and if it
    > is dished up by them then they'll let you talk to their NNTP (i.e. news)
    > server. If you're logged in through another ISP it's likely that Paradise
    > won't authenticate you (which makes sense - they only want paying
    > customers use a service they provide).
    >
    > Allistar.



    Its my understanding that ISP's (or almost anyone providing NNTP) limits
    access to their server as an antispam measure.
    If there was open unfettered access well you can see the problems

    --
    Rule 6: There is no rule 6

    Blog: http://shanes.dyndns.org
    Shane, Aug 21, 2006
    #6
  7. J.Wilson

    Dave Taylor Guest

    Shane <-a-geek.net> wrote in news:ecbjvp$tcs$1
    @lust.ihug.co.nz:

    > Its my understanding that ISP's (or almost anyone providing NNTP) limits
    > access to their server as an antispam measure.
    > If there was open unfettered access well you can see the problems


    Do a telnet check
    telnet news.paradise.net.nz 119

    do you get this:
    200 clear.net.nz DNEWS Version 5.4g5, S0, posting OK

    The above is a good thing.

    Try the test from both dial up account and from adsl

    I bet you will find that the block is from paradise themselves for when you
    try to connect with a non paradise IP address.
    What does paradise help desk say?
    Do thay have an authenticated proxy available for members?


    --
    Ciao, Dave
    Dave Taylor, Aug 21, 2006
    #7
  8. J.Wilson

    Shane Guest

    Dave Taylor wrote:

    > Shane <-a-geek.net> wrote in news:ecbjvp$tcs$1
    > @lust.ihug.co.nz:
    >
    >> Its my understanding that ISP's (or almost anyone providing NNTP) limits
    >> access to their server as an antispam measure.
    >> If there was open unfettered access well you can see the problems

    >
    > Do a telnet check
    > telnet news.paradise.net.nz 119
    >
    > do you get this:
    > 200 clear.net.nz DNEWS Version 5.4g5, S0, posting OK
    >
    > The above is a good thing.
    >
    > Try the test from both dial up account and from adsl
    >
    > I bet you will find that the block is from paradise themselves for when
    > you try to connect with a non paradise IP address.
    > What does paradise help desk say?
    > Do thay have an authenticated proxy available for members?
    >
    >


    Erm, just to be a little pedantic. The above doesnt mean you can actually
    use it. Recently I surveyed all of the ISP's I could find for NNTP
    servers, by checking their websites, and making a connection to port 119 of
    their (normally) advertised nntp servers.
    Several servers replied to me that posting was OK (As in your example)
    Perplexed at what I thought was a serious security issue, I asked around and
    hit was suggested to me to attempt to get a list of the Newsgroups carried
    by the server (using the 'list' command)
    The NNTP servers that appeared to be open (all coincidentally were dnews)
    *all* told me they required authentication before they would list (which is
    a good thing)


    --
    Rule 6: There is no rule 6

    Blog: http://shanes.dyndns.org
    Shane, Aug 21, 2006
    #8
  9. Shane wrote:
    > Erm, just to be a little pedantic. The above doesnt mean you can actually
    > use it. Recently I surveyed all of the ISP's I could find for NNTP
    > servers, by checking their websites, and making a connection to port 119 of
    > their (normally) advertised nntp servers.
    > Several servers replied to me that posting was OK (As in your example)
    > Perplexed at what I thought was a serious security issue, I asked around and
    > hit was suggested to me to attempt to get a list of the Newsgroups carried
    > by the server (using the 'list' command)
    > The NNTP servers that appeared to be open (all coincidentally were dnews)
    > *all* told me they required authentication before they would list (which is
    > a good thing)


    DNews supports RADIUS authentication, so it would actually be trivial
    for these ISPs to provide remote access to their news servers from other
    locations. None of them will offer this. The reason for the 200-level
    response is that if DNews has any password-protected accounts without an
    IP/host rule, it has to allow connections from anywhere.

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Aug 21, 2006
    #9
  10. "J.Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:44e9292d$0$1811$...
    > We have an adsl account with Xtra and a dialup account with Paradise.
    > We can access our paradise mail account through Xtra but not
    > Paradise news server. Paradise help desk say
    > Xtra are blocking access to their news server. Xtra say it is not
    > possible for them to provide access to newsgroups through other
    > Isps even though I can access aioe and teranews.
    > Is this because they really can't do it or because they are intentionally
    > blocking it?
    >


    You will find out that news servers are limited to the ISPs users only. The
    news.paradise.net.nz server is visible, but only if you connect through the
    Paradise network you can post.

    This is not Xtra's fault, rather a Paradise configuration.

    --

    Mauricio Freitas
    www.geekzone.co.nz, www.geekzone.co.nz/freitasm,
    www.geekzone.co.nz/geekzoneblog.asp
    Software for Pocket PC: www.geekzone.co.nz/store
    Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices
    Mauricio Freitas [MVP], Aug 21, 2006
    #10
  11. J.Wilson

    Mark C Guest

    "J.Wilson" <> wrote in
    news:44e97248$:

    > Paradise specifically told me there was no reason why I
    > should not be able to connect to their news server.


    That Paradise helpdesk person does not know what they are talking
    about.

    > Xtra specifically told me it was not possible to access
    > other Isp's news servers through their servers.


    That Xtra helpdesk person does not know what they are talking about.

    Did you try the telnet test that Dave suggested?
    Mark C, Aug 21, 2006
    #11
  12. "J.Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:44e97248$...
    >
    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:ecbok6$5jl$...
    >
    >> Erm, just to be a little pedantic. The above doesnt mean you can
    >> actually
    >> use it. Recently I surveyed all of the ISP's I could find for NNTP
    >> servers, by checking their websites, and making a connection to port 119

    > of
    >> their (normally) advertised nntp servers.
    >> Several servers replied to me that posting was OK (As in your example)
    >> Perplexed at what I thought was a serious security issue, I asked around

    > and
    >> hit was suggested to me to attempt to get a list of the Newsgroups
    >> carried
    >> by the server (using the 'list' command)
    >> The NNTP servers that appeared to be open (all coincidentally were dnews)
    >> *all* told me they required authentication before they would list (which

    > is
    >> a good thing)

    >
    > Paradise specifically told me there was no reason why I
    > should not be able to connect to their news server.
    > Xtra specifically told me it was not possible to access
    > other Isp's news servers through their servers.
    > So, I know the problem is with Xtra.
    > If there is nothing they can do about it , fair enough,
    > but if they are just being nasty I can go see them at
    > their head office nearby Karangahape Road (been there
    > before :) ) and have a go.
    >


    The Paradise help desk person probably does not know what "news server" is,
    and is probably thinking of "email server".

    The nntp server is not accessible to users outside the Paradise network

    --

    Mauricio Freitas
    www.geekzone.co.nz, www.geekzone.co.nz/freitasm,
    www.geekzone.co.nz/geekzoneblog.asp
    Software for Pocket PC: www.geekzone.co.nz/store
    Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices
    Mauricio Freitas [MVP], Aug 21, 2006
    #12
  13. J.Wilson

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <44e97248$>, says...
    >
    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:ecbok6$5jl$...
    >
    > > Erm, just to be a little pedantic. The above doesnt mean you can actually
    > > use it. Recently I surveyed all of the ISP's I could find for NNTP
    > > servers, by checking their websites, and making a connection to port 119

    > of
    > > their (normally) advertised nntp servers.
    > > Several servers replied to me that posting was OK (As in your example)
    > > Perplexed at what I thought was a serious security issue, I asked around

    > and
    > > hit was suggested to me to attempt to get a list of the Newsgroups carried
    > > by the server (using the 'list' command)
    > > The NNTP servers that appeared to be open (all coincidentally were dnews)
    > > *all* told me they required authentication before they would list (which

    > is
    > > a good thing)

    >
    > Paradise specifically told me there was no reason why I
    > should not be able to connect to their news server.
    > Xtra specifically told me it was not possible to access
    > other Isp's news servers through their servers.
    > So, I know the problem is with Xtra.
    > If there is nothing they can do about it , fair enough,
    > but if they are just being nasty I can go see them at
    > their head office nearby Karangahape Road (been there
    > before :) ) and have a go.


    The problem is not with Xtra, it is with Paradise (although it's the
    normal setup for many ISP's). You must be on a Paradise IP (range) to
    connect to their news server. This avoids having to have authentication
    on the server itself (you are already effectively authenticated if you
    are a 'Paradise IP').

    You cannot and will not get a sucessful connection otherwise (and they
    won't change it for you :)

    --
    Duncan
    Dave Doe, Aug 21, 2006
    #13
  14. J.Wilson

    Tony Guest


    > This is not Xtra's fault, rather a Paradise configuration.


    This is standard across all ISP's in general. Why on earth would
    TelstraClear allow Xtra customers to their news server ? If you are
    connected to Xtra you are not a Paradise customer, you are an Xtra
    customer. You should be glad you can access the Paradise mail server via
    Xtra, Xtra certainly will not let you access their mail server from
    anywhere else.
    Tony, Aug 21, 2006
    #14
  15. J.Wilson

    Keith Guest

    Tony <> wrote:
    >
    >> This is not Xtra's fault, rather a Paradise configuration.

    >
    >This is standard across all ISP's in general. Why on earth would
    >TelstraClear allow Xtra customers to their news server ?


    They do (sort of).

    I realise that setting up the nttp server would probably be too much of
    a hassle but Paradise/ClearNet subscribers can access the news server
    through a web interface (http://webnews.clear.net)so long as they can
    provide a valid Paradise/ClearNet UserID and password. (I'm doing it
    right now).
    Keith, Aug 21, 2006
    #15
  16. J.Wilson

    geopelia Guest

    I'm still with xtra but can use aioe when it is working (just now it
    isn't).

    Google seems to work but I think it is a different system.

    I wonder if xtra will see sense and bring the newsgroups back.
    geopelia, Aug 21, 2006
    #16
  17. J.Wilson

    PeeCee Guest

    "geopelia" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >

    snip
    >
    > I wonder if xtra will see sense and bring the newsgroups back.
    >



    On bended knees, flails dead chicken on ground, waves three leafed clover,
    rubs lucky rabbits foot, crosses fingers, mumbles incantations, beats tom
    toms, reads horoscope, swears oath on Bible/Koran/Perfumed Garden,
    ....................................................!!!

    P.
    PeeCee, Aug 22, 2006
    #17
  18. J.Wilson

    Crash Guest

    geopelia wrote:
    >
    > I'm still with xtra but can use aioe when it is working (just now it
    > isn't).
    >
    > Google seems to work but I think it is a different system.
    >
    > I wonder if xtra will see sense and bring the newsgroups back.
    >

    In a word = No.

    They have taken a decision and lost customers because of it. Given that they
    were stupid enough to do this, we would they recant? What possible good could
    it do (from Xtra's perspective)?

    Crash.
    Crash, Aug 22, 2006
    #18
  19. J.Wilson

    geopelia Guest

    Crash wrote:
    > geopelia wrote:
    > >
    > > I'm still with xtra but can use aioe when it is working (just now it
    > > isn't).
    > >
    > > Google seems to work but I think it is a different system.
    > >
    > > I wonder if xtra will see sense and bring the newsgroups back.
    > >

    > In a word = No.
    >
    > They have taken a decision and lost customers because of it. Given that they
    > were stupid enough to do this, we would they recant? What possible good could
    > it do (from Xtra's perspective)?
    >
    > Crash.


    It isn't only the loss of xtra customers they have to worry about. With
    all the problems and the falling share price can they afford to keep
    losing customers from Telecom as well?

    Restoring the newsgroups might give Telecom a bit more credibility.
    They must be spending a lot on advertising this new Broadband stuff,
    but will people go for it knowing how xtra got rid of the newsgroups in
    such a sneaky way?

    But don't ask me, I don't have shares in Telecom.

    Geopelia
    geopelia, Aug 23, 2006
    #19
  20. J.Wilson

    Nho Whei Guest

    On 21 Aug 2006 15:49:10 -0700, "geopelia" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >I'm still with xtra but can use aioe when it is working (just now it
    >isn't).
    >
    >Google seems to work but I think it is a different system.
    >
    >I wonder if xtra will see sense and bring the newsgroups back.


    This is a test posting from motzarella.org, which may be a usable
    option....???
    Nho Whei, Aug 24, 2006
    #20
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