Xtra to block Port 25 - no more mail servers

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Fred Dagg, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. Fred Dagg

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:

    http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html

    Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.

    There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.
     
    Fred Dagg, Mar 27, 2006
    #1
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  2. Fred Dagg

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    Fred Dagg <> wrote:

    > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >
    > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >
    > Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    > forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >
    > There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    > Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.


    Xtra is a MSN outlet.... this will effectively kill off access to google
    mail too....

    I set up google mail so I could have pop/smtp from anywhere in the world
    and not have to resort to a crap webmail interface.

    Oh well, just another reason to leave xtra for someone else.
     
    whoisthis, Mar 27, 2006
    #2
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  3. Fred Dagg

    Peter Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >
    > Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    > forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >
    > There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    > Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.


    Sadly, I guess there are more trojan spam mail servers on users machines
    than there are mail servers intentionally set up by users.

    So, there is a benefit in shutting out all those spam trojans, albeit at the
    cost of a few users who run their own mail servers.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Mar 27, 2006
    #3
  4. Fred Dagg

    Steve Guest

    On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:51:03 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:

    >
    > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >
    > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >
    > Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    > forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >
    > There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    > Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.


    Well, that says they're going to filter it, not block. Doesn't it just
    mean that you're going to have to use their servers as smart hosts for
    sending email?
     
    Steve, Mar 27, 2006
    #4
  5. Fred Dagg <> wrote:

    > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >
    > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >
    > Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    > forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >
    > There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    > Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.


    That's madness :-( OTOH - Xtra always has been the Windows of the NZ
    ISPs - the one for the clueless sheep to flock too and be fleeced. What
    a clusterfuck Telecom is these days.

    Regards,
    Jamie Kahn Genet
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
     
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Mar 27, 2006
    #5
  6. Steve <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:51:03 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    > >
    > > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    > >
    > > Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    > > forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    > >
    > > There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    > > Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.

    >
    > Well, that says they're going to filter it, not block. Doesn't it just
    > mean that you're going to have to use their servers as smart hosts for
    > sending email?


    and that's acceptable? Have you seen what useless crap Xtra's absurd
    spamfilers add to outgoing email? I'm sorry, but the only way to get a
    decent spam filter is to train a filter yourself. Xtra's is USELESS.

    Regards,
    Jamie Kahn Genet
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
     
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Mar 27, 2006
    #6
  7. On a pleasant day while strolling in nz.comp, a person by the name of
    Fred Dagg exclaimed:
    >
    > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >
    > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html


    Somewhat reasonable. It's true that this cuts off all the trojaned
    zombies from being able to send mail, although some will now send
    through the ISP server.

    Whenever this idea is suggested, everyone running their own mail server
    predictably complains, without considering the upside in reduction of
    spam (but spam prevention must have NO IMPACT AT ALL ON ME!!! I don't
    like spam but I'm not prepared to move an inch to help solve the
    problem. Etc.).

    However, they don't make it clear if it's possible at all to "opt out".
    The best practice is simply to enable it whenever someone is technical
    enough to ask the right question; the thousands of clueless users
    running trojans will never know to ask.

    --
    aaronl at consultant dot com
    For every expert, there is an equal and
    opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
     
    Aaron Lawrence, Mar 27, 2006
    #7
  8. Fred Dagg

    Steve Guest

    On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:15:50 +1200, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

    > Steve <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:51:03 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >> >
    >> > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >> >
    >> > Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    >> > forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >> >
    >> > There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    >> > Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.

    >>
    >> Well, that says they're going to filter it, not block. Doesn't it just
    >> mean that you're going to have to use their servers as smart hosts for
    >> sending email?

    >
    > and that's acceptable? Have you seen what useless crap Xtra's absurd
    > spamfilers add to outgoing email? I'm sorry, but the only way to get a
    > decent spam filter is to train a filter yourself. Xtra's is USELESS.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jamie Kahn Genet


    Never said it wasn't. All I said was that the picture wasn't as bleak as
    painted. Note that *I* am not on Xtra.
     
    Steve, Mar 27, 2006
    #8
  9. Fred Dagg

    Enkidu Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <>, Fred Dagg
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >>
    >> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >>
    >> Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    >> forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >>
    >> There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    >> Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail
    >> servers.

    >
    >
    > Xtra is a MSN outlet.... this will effectively kill off access to
    > google mail too....
    >
    > I set up google mail so I could have pop/smtp from anywhere in the
    > world and not have to resort to a crap webmail interface.
    >

    You should still be able to pop mail off the Xtra servers.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Mar 27, 2006
    #9
  10. On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:00:39 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > whoisthis wrote:
    >> In article <>, Fred Dagg
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >>>
    >>> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >>>
    >>> Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    >>> forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >>>
    >>> There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    >>> Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.

    >>
    >>
    >> Xtra is a MSN outlet.... this will effectively kill off access to google
    >> mail too....
    >>
    >> I set up google mail so I could have pop/smtp from anywhere in the world
    >> and not have to resort to a crap webmail interface.


    Gmail does not use port 25.


    >>

    > You should still be able to pop mail off the Xtra servers.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    Yes you should but that doesn't address the problem of using other
    servers, however in fairness to Xtra a lot of other major ISP's do the
    same thing.
     
    David A' Rebel, Mar 27, 2006
    #10
  11. Fred Dagg

    MarkH Guest

    whoisthis <> wrote in news:who-B92E10.22281027032006
    @news.xtra.co.nz:

    > Xtra is a MSN outlet.... this will effectively kill off access to google
    > mail too....
    >
    > I set up google mail so I could have pop/smtp from anywhere in the world
    > and not have to resort to a crap webmail interface.
    >
    > Oh well, just another reason to leave xtra for someone else.


    Ahem *cough* *cough* *cough*

    Um, yeah - GMail does not use Port 25! Outgoing is through port 465, NOT
    the standard port 25. Incoming mail is through port 995. So this will NOT
    effectively kill off access to Google mail.

    Of course I would not use Xtra anyway - they suck!


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 5-September-05)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Mar 27, 2006
    #11
  12. Fred Dagg

    colinco Guest

    In article Jamie Kahn Genet says...
    > > Well, that says they're going to filter it, not block. Doesn't it just
    > > mean that you're going to have to use their servers as smart hosts for
    > > sending email?

    >
    > and that's acceptable? Have you seen what useless crap Xtra's absurd
    > spamfilers add to outgoing email? I'm sorry, but the only way to get a
    > decent spam filter is to train a filter yourself. Xtra's is USELESS.
    >

    What crap are you talking about WRT outgoing email via Xtra?
     
    colinco, Mar 27, 2006
    #12
  13. Fred Dagg

    Enkidu Guest

    Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
    > Steve <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:51:03 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >>>
    >>> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >>>
    >>> Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless
    >>> you forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >>>
    >>> There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    >>> Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail
    >>> servers.

    >>
    >> Well, that says they're going to filter it, not block. Doesn't it
    >> just mean that you're going to have to use their servers as smart
    >> hosts for sending email?

    >
    > and that's acceptable? Have you seen what useless crap Xtra's absurd
    > spamfilers add to outgoing email? I'm sorry, but the only way to get
    > a decent spam filter is to train a filter yourself. Xtra's is
    > USELESS.
    >

    Yes, it is. I used to run an SMTP server, but I got fed up with
    receiving all the SPAM so I use my ISP as a smarthost, get the benefit
    of their SPAM filtering and I also do my own.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Mar 27, 2006
    #13
  14. On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:37:25 +1200, Aaron Lawrence wrote:

    > Whenever this idea is suggested, everyone running their own mail server
    > predictably complains, without considering the upside in reduction of
    > spam (but spam prevention must have NO IMPACT AT ALL ON ME!!! I don't
    > like spam but I'm not prepared to move an inch to help solve the
    > problem. Etc.).


    I run my own email servers. I do not have a problem with SPAM.

    If one email address starts to get spam (and this happens only rarely,
    because most people I know no longer use Windows at home) then I simply
    delete it and advise people of the new email address.

    It is not right for an ISP to simply block people from using an important
    part of the Internet - something that people pay for!


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "Vista - I wouldn't buy it with someone else's money. Then again What do I
    know, I've only been testing the dog for the last 2-3 yrs..."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 27, 2006
    #14
  15. Fred Dagg

    Allistar Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:

    >
    > Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >
    > http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >
    > Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    > forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >
    > There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    > Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.


    Just run a mail server on another port - something other than 25/110.
    Problem fixed, surely?

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Mar 27, 2006
    #15
  16. Fred Dagg

    Chris Hope Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    [snip]

    > If one email address starts to get spam (and this happens only rarely,
    > because most people I know no longer use Windows at home) then I
    > simply delete it and advise people of the new email address.


    And what does using Windows have to do with getting spam?

    I use Linux for all my email, run my own mail servers, and I get
    bucketloads of spam.

    Getting spam or not boils down to a number of factors and few (if any)
    of them have anything to do with using Windows or Outlook/Express.

    [snip]

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
     
    Chris Hope, Mar 28, 2006
    #16
  17. Allistar wrote:
    > Just run a mail server on another port - something other than 25/110.
    > Problem fixed, surely?


    You have to both send to port 25, and receive on port 25. I assume they
    will be blocking both.

    On the listening end, SMTP servers must listen on port 25 as DNS does
    not provide a mechanism to specify the incoming port.

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Mar 28, 2006
    #17
  18. Fred Dagg

    Allistar Guest

    The Other Guy wrote:

    > Allistar wrote:
    >> Just run a mail server on another port - something other than 25/110.
    >> Problem fixed, surely?

    >
    > You have to both send to port 25, and receive on port 25. I assume they
    > will be blocking both.
    >
    > On the listening end, SMTP servers must listen on port 25 as DNS does
    > not provide a mechanism to specify the incoming port.
    >
    > The Other Guy


    I can set up a mail server that listens on port 1025, and setup my mail
    client to check mail on my host, with port=1025. Same thing with port 110.

    I can tell my mail server to listen on any port, and even if I can't, I can
    easily forward incoming on 1025 to 25 on the mail server - all internal, so
    the ISP has no idea. All they see is traffic on port 1025.

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Mar 28, 2006
    #18
  19. Fred Dagg

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:59:56 +1200, Allistar <> exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >>
    >> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >>
    >> Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    >> forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >>
    >> There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    >> Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.

    >
    >Just run a mail server on another port - something other than 25/110.
    >Problem fixed, surely?


    Yeah, pity that nobody will be able to send you any mail.

    I'm assuming you don't know much about how the internet works. That
    would be akin to hosting your web server on Port 81, then wondering
    why nobody can see your website.
     
    Fred Dagg, Mar 28, 2006
    #19
  20. Fred Dagg

    Allistar Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:

    > On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:59:56 +1200, Allistar <> exclaimed:
    >
    >>Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
    >>>
    >>> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
    >>>
    >>> Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
    >>> forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
    >>>
    >>> There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
    >>> Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.

    >>
    >>Just run a mail server on another port - something other than 25/110.
    >>Problem fixed, surely?

    >
    > Yeah, pity that nobody will be able to send you any mail.
    >
    > I'm assuming you don't know much about how the internet works. That
    > would be akin to hosting your web server on Port 81, then wondering
    > why nobody can see your website.


    I was assuming it would be a mail server used only by yourself for
    sending/receiving email, and it (your mail server) would collect your email
    from the standard xtra server on port 25. Should have made that clear.
    Basically your mail server would be like a go between between your mail
    client and the "real" Xtra server.

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Mar 28, 2006
    #20
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