xtra - apalling service + brain dead help desk = catastrophic failure

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Warwick, Oct 14, 2003.

  1. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    I know this is a familar them however the conversation I just had with
    Culpis and xtra help desk defies imagination.

    I've got an obligation to play in an online tournament and I can't
    access the server - or the server status page.

    Traces reveal a problem at PAIX - Global Gateway is not onward
    delivering my packets to Hurricane Electric.

    So I call xtra help.
    Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    Warwick: I beg to differ, you have a contract with your peer in USA
    who is obliged to onward deliver packets to other servers.
    Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    Warwick: If there is a peering problem in my signal path my first line
    of inquiry is with my ISP, you should either change your peer or re
    route my signal.
    Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    Warwick: Would you mind then if I called your peering partner in
    California and asked them instead? I am sorry to be insistent but I
    must contact the host of this tournament and explain why I can't play
    when I am supposed to and arrange a new date/time or I will be
    disqualified.
    Culpis: No I can't provide you with that information.
    Warwick: Lets say a ship ran over the subsea cable and every website
    outside of NZ was unavailable. Whose problem is that?
    Culpis: Good question.
    Warwick: Can you then at least provide me with an ETA for resolution?
    Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.

    <click>

    So I've probably done my entry fee and since I had advanced 2 rounds
    already my chances of a prize were at worst 1 in 8.

    cheers
    Warwick


    PS - a coupla traces , ive chopped the last 21 hops off the nz one
    snce they are all request timed outs (we never got to the dest IP so
    the trace is still incrementing ttl and firing away at nothing till it
    gets to 30 hops).

    The other one was run by an AOL customer to the same IP.

    C:\DOCUME~1\WARWIC~1>tracert login.gamesgrid.com

    Tracing route to beech.gamesgrid.com [216.218.245.195]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 118 ms 109 ms 118 ms 192.168.242.74
    2 109 ms 109 ms 109 ms 192.168.242.77
    3 120 ms 119 ms 119 ms 192.168.237.38
    4 160 ms 159 ms 159 ms 202.49.160.33
    5 119 ms 120 ms 119 ms a4-0-0-11.ipa1-r16-5.xtra.co.nz
    [203.96.111.49]

    6 130 ms 129 ms 129 ms GGI-MDR-INT.xtra.co.nz
    [203.96.111.206]
    7 250 ms 250 ms 250 ms p1-7.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.37.246.146
    ]
    8 290 ms 290 ms 290 ms p0-3-0-0.pabr3.global-gateway.net.nz
    [202.37.246
    ..201]
    9 290 ms 290 ms 290 ms sntcca2lce1.wcg.net [198.32.176.139]
    <thats as far as this trace will run>
    ..
    ..
    ..
    1 214 ms 236 ms 223 ms rt-ntcte02.proxy.aol.com [198.81.18.91]

    2 220 ms 239 ms 232 ms wc1-ntc-G3-1-0.proxy.aol.com [198.81.18.123]

    3 208 ms 219 ms 219 ms pop3-ntc-P7-0.atdn.net [66.185.142.117]

    4 236 ms 199 ms 199 ms bb2-ntc-P1-0.atdn.net [66.185.142.114]

    5 217 ms 239 ms 239 ms bb2-sjg-P6-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.119]

    6 235 ms 199 ms 199 ms bb1-sjg-P2

    7 274 ms 321 ms 309 ms bb1-ash-P14-0.atdn.net [66.185.153.58]

    8 413 ms 299 ms 299 ms pop2-ash-P0-0.atdn.net [66.185.139.209]

    9 316 ms 297 ms 279 ms HurricaneElectric.atdn.net [66.185.151.150]

    10 276 ms 299 ms 299 ms pos7-0.gsr12012.pao.he.net [216.218.254.205]

    11 277 ms 319 ms 308 ms pos2-0.gsr12012.fmt.he.net [64.62.249.121]

    12 306 ms 279 ms 280 ms 216

    13 280 ms 319 ms 279 ms beech.gamesgrid.com [216.218.245.195]
     
    Warwick, Oct 14, 2003
    #1
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  2. Warwick

    T.N.O. Guest

    "Warwick" wrote
    > Warwick: Would you mind then if I called your peering partner in
    > California and asked them instead? I am sorry to be insistent but I
    > must contact the host of this tournament and explain why I can't play
    > when I am supposed to and arrange a new date/time or I will be
    > disqualified.


    It is outside of Xtra's network, it isn't there problem...

    The owner of the last IP is:
    Final results obtained from whois.arin.net.
    Results:

    OrgName: Exchange Point Blocks
    OrgID: EPB
    Address: PO 12317
    City: Marina del Rey
    StateProv: CA
    PostalCode:
    Country: US

    NetRange: 198.32.0.0 - 198.32.255.255
    CIDR: 198.32.0.0/16
    NetName: NET-EP-1
    NetHandle: NET-198-32-0-0-1
    Parent: NET-198-0-0-0-0
    NetType: Direct Assignment
    NameServer: DOT.EP.NET
    NameServer: FLAG.EP.NET
    Comment:
    RegDate: 1997-06-09
    Updated: 2001-12-17

    TechHandle: WM110-ARIN
    TechName: Manning, Bill
    TechPhone: +1-310-322-8102
    TechEmail:

    # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-10-12 19:15
    # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.


    There is there phone number, give them a call...
     
    T.N.O., Oct 14, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Warwick

    T.N.O. Guest

    "T.N.O." wrote
    > It is outside of Xtra's network, it isn't there problem...


    err, "their problem"
     
    T.N.O., Oct 14, 2003
    #3
  4. Warwick

    T.N.O. Guest

    "max" wrote
    > > 9 290 ms 290 ms 290 ms sntcca2lce1.wcg.net [198.32.176.139]
    > ><thats as far as this trace will run>


    > I am having the same problem connecting to the same location, as per
    > my post above. Whose problem is it? It is also affecting paradise. It
    > has only happened today. I can connect via callplus going through
    > gblx.net, but not through global-gateway.net.nz using xtra???
    > Weird


    See my other post... not on Xtra's or Paradise's networks, not their
    problem.
     
    T.N.O., Oct 14, 2003
    #4
  5. Warwick

    max Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:56:32 +1300, Warwick <> wrote:

    >I know this is a familar them however the conversation I just had with
    >Culpis and xtra help desk defies imagination.
    >
    >I've got an obligation to play in an online tournament and I can't
    >access the server - or the server status page.
    >
    >Traces reveal a problem at PAIX - Global Gateway is not onward
    >delivering my packets to Hurricane Electric.
    >
    >So I call xtra help.
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    >Warwick: I beg to differ, you have a contract with your peer in USA
    >who is obliged to onward deliver packets to other servers.
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    >Warwick: If there is a peering problem in my signal path my first line
    >of inquiry is with my ISP, you should either change your peer or re
    >route my signal.
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    >Warwick: Would you mind then if I called your peering partner in
    >California and asked them instead? I am sorry to be insistent but I
    >must contact the host of this tournament and explain why I can't play
    >when I am supposed to and arrange a new date/time or I will be
    >disqualified.
    >Culpis: No I can't provide you with that information.
    >Warwick: Lets say a ship ran over the subsea cable and every website
    >outside of NZ was unavailable. Whose problem is that?
    >Culpis: Good question.
    >Warwick: Can you then at least provide me with an ETA for resolution?
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    >
    ><click>
    >
    >So I've probably done my entry fee and since I had advanced 2 rounds
    >already my chances of a prize were at worst 1 in 8.
    >
    >cheers
    >Warwick
    >
    >
    >PS - a coupla traces , ive chopped the last 21 hops off the nz one
    >snce they are all request timed outs (we never got to the dest IP so
    >the trace is still incrementing ttl and firing away at nothing till it
    >gets to 30 hops).
    >
    >The other one was run by an AOL customer to the same IP.
    >
    >C:\DOCUME~1\WARWIC~1>tracert login.gamesgrid.com
    >
    >Tracing route to beech.gamesgrid.com [216.218.245.195]
    >over a maximum of 30 hops:
    >
    > 1 118 ms 109 ms 118 ms 192.168.242.74
    > 2 109 ms 109 ms 109 ms 192.168.242.77
    > 3 120 ms 119 ms 119 ms 192.168.237.38
    > 4 160 ms 159 ms 159 ms 202.49.160.33
    > 5 119 ms 120 ms 119 ms a4-0-0-11.ipa1-r16-5.xtra.co.nz
    >[203.96.111.49]
    >
    > 6 130 ms 129 ms 129 ms GGI-MDR-INT.xtra.co.nz
    >[203.96.111.206]
    > 7 250 ms 250 ms 250 ms p1-7.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz
    >[202.37.246.146
    >]
    > 8 290 ms 290 ms 290 ms p0-3-0-0.pabr3.global-gateway.net.nz
    >[202.37.246
    >.201]
    > 9 290 ms 290 ms 290 ms sntcca2lce1.wcg.net [198.32.176.139]
    ><thats as far as this trace will run>
    >.
    >.
    >.
    >1 214 ms 236 ms 223 ms rt-ntcte02.proxy.aol.com [198.81.18.91]
    >
    >2 220 ms 239 ms 232 ms wc1-ntc-G3-1-0.proxy.aol.com [198.81.18.123]
    >
    >3 208 ms 219 ms 219 ms pop3-ntc-P7-0.atdn.net [66.185.142.117]
    >
    >4 236 ms 199 ms 199 ms bb2-ntc-P1-0.atdn.net [66.185.142.114]
    >
    >5 217 ms 239 ms 239 ms bb2-sjg-P6-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.119]
    >
    >6 235 ms 199 ms 199 ms bb1-sjg-P2
    >
    >7 274 ms 321 ms 309 ms bb1-ash-P14-0.atdn.net [66.185.153.58]
    >
    >8 413 ms 299 ms 299 ms pop2-ash-P0-0.atdn.net [66.185.139.209]
    >
    >9 316 ms 297 ms 279 ms HurricaneElectric.atdn.net [66.185.151.150]
    >
    >10 276 ms 299 ms 299 ms pos7-0.gsr12012.pao.he.net [216.218.254.205]
    >
    >11 277 ms 319 ms 308 ms pos2-0.gsr12012.fmt.he.net [64.62.249.121]
    >
    >12 306 ms 279 ms 280 ms 216
    >
    >13 280 ms 319 ms 279 ms beech.gamesgrid.com [216.218.245.195]
    >



    I am having the same problem connecting to the same location, as per
    my post above. Whose problem is it? It is also affecting paradise. It
    has only happened today. I can connect via callplus going through
    gblx.net, but not through global-gateway.net.nz using xtra???
    Weird
     
    max, Oct 14, 2003
    #5
  6. Warwick

    T.N.O. Guest

    "max" wrote
    > >See my other post... not on Xtra's or Paradise's networks, not their
    > >problem.


    > But it is a problem with their providers, or their providers provider,
    > so it is still their problem, or at least they should be more helpful
    > in resolving it.


    So you want Jo helpdesk to start making international calls on their phone
    logon... doubt it, at best they'll notice a few people bitch about not being
    able to play some game, tell their supervisors, and it might go further if
    your lucky... alternatly, you could email the guy which I gave you the
    address of, and ask him as it seems to be his machine that wont pass the
    packets.
     
    T.N.O., Oct 14, 2003
    #6
  7. Warwick

    AD. Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:04:10 +1300, T.N.O. wrote:

    > "Warwick" wrote
    >> Warwick: Would you mind then if I called your peering partner in
    >> California and asked them instead? I am sorry to be insistent but I
    >> must contact the host of this tournament and explain why I can't play
    >> when I am supposed to and arrange a new date/time or I will be
    >> disqualified.

    >
    > It is outside of Xtra's network, it isn't there problem...


    Not necessarily. Xtra's routing tables could be outdated or screwed up and
    sending some traffic where it shouldn't go.

    OK that's not the most likely explanation, but ISPs do have a
    responsibility to report these issues to their backbone providers and
    peers etc.

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Oct 14, 2003
    #7
  8. Warwick

    max Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:18:01 +1300, "T.N.O." <> wrote:

    >"max" wrote
    >> > 9 290 ms 290 ms 290 ms sntcca2lce1.wcg.net [198.32.176.139]
    >> ><thats as far as this trace will run>

    >
    >> I am having the same problem connecting to the same location, as per
    >> my post above. Whose problem is it? It is also affecting paradise. It
    >> has only happened today. I can connect via callplus going through
    >> gblx.net, but not through global-gateway.net.nz using xtra???
    >> Weird

    >
    >See my other post... not on Xtra's or Paradise's networks, not their
    >problem.
    >



    But it is a problem with their providers, or their providers provider,
    so it is still their problem, or at least they should be more helpful
    in resolving it.
     
    max, Oct 14, 2003
    #8
  9. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:04:10 +1300, "T.N.O." <> wrote:

    >"Warwick" wrote
    >> Warwick: Would you mind then if I called your peering partner in
    >> California and asked them instead? I am sorry to be insistent but I
    >> must contact the host of this tournament and explain why I can't play
    >> when I am supposed to and arrange a new date/time or I will be
    >> disqualified.

    >
    >It is outside of Xtra's network, it isn't there problem...
    >
    >The owner of the last IP is:
    >Final results obtained from whois.arin.net.
    >Results:
    >
    >OrgName: Exchange Point Blocks
    >OrgID: EPB
    >Address: PO 12317
    >City: Marina del Rey
    >StateProv: CA
    >PostalCode:
    >Country: US
    >
    >NetRange: 198.32.0.0 - 198.32.255.255
    >CIDR: 198.32.0.0/16
    >NetName: NET-EP-1
    >NetHandle: NET-198-32-0-0-1
    >Parent: NET-198-0-0-0-0
    >NetType: Direct Assignment
    >NameServer: DOT.EP.NET
    >NameServer: FLAG.EP.NET
    >Comment:
    >RegDate: 1997-06-09
    >Updated: 2001-12-17
    >
    >TechHandle: WM110-ARIN
    >TechName: Manning, Bill
    >TechPhone: +1-310-322-8102
    >TechEmail:
    >
    ># ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-10-12 19:15
    ># Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
    >
    >
    >There is there phone number, give them a call...
    >



    Thanks for that, should have thought of whois myself, but I'd much
    rather xtra did it - I could easily get the run around so Ill try an
    email first. Maybe this is a political issue with peers in US.

    You maybe right - maybe its not xtra's problem.
    This means they haven't bothered to bind someone at the other end of
    the subsea cable into a contract for onward delivery of packets.
    This means they are a less than perfect ISP.

    I know Gamesgrid have a contract with HE, if my traces indicated a
    fault at HE I can page or make a call and have the router reset within
    10 minutes. I either want that kind of result, or an explanation as to
    whats going on.

    I don't think that is an unreasonable request.
    best
    Warwick
     
    Warwick, Oct 14, 2003
    #9
  10. Warwick

    AD. Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:26:31 +1300, T.N.O. wrote:

    > So you want Jo helpdesk to start making international calls on their phone
    > logon...


    No, they escalate it to the routing guys to deal with.

    > doubt it, at best they'll notice a few people bitch about not
    > being able to play some game, tell their supervisors, and it might go
    > further if your lucky...


    What does happen is different to what should happen. Shouldn't we demand
    better?

    > alternatly, you could email the guy which I gave
    > you the address of, and ask him as it seems to be his machine that wont
    > pass the packets.


    Nice in theory, but these providers usually don't support end users. You
    usually have to be a backbone peer or ISP etc to get direct support. An
    end user traceroute might not be enough to tell where the problem is if
    it's a routing error a hop or two back from where the trace stopped.

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Oct 14, 2003
    #10
  11. Warwick

    T.N.O. Guest

    "Warwick" wrote
    > You maybe right - maybe its not xtra's problem.
    > This means they haven't bothered to bind someone at the other end of
    > the subsea cable into a contract for onward delivery of packets.
    > This means they are a less than perfect ISP.


    Or, have a more casual relationship with their peers... I wouldn't think so
    though, being Telecom :).

    > I don't think that is an unreasonable request.


    I was a little terse with my reply, for that, I apologise... just had an
    argument with a user... grrr
     
    T.N.O., Oct 14, 2003
    #11
  12. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:26:31 +1300, "T.N.O." <> wrote:

    >"max" wrote
    >> >See my other post... not on Xtra's or Paradise's networks, not their
    >> >problem.

    >
    >> But it is a problem with their providers, or their providers provider,
    >> so it is still their problem, or at least they should be more helpful
    >> in resolving it.

    >
    >So you want Jo helpdesk to start making international calls on their phone
    >logon... doubt it, at best they'll notice a few people bitch about not being
    >able to play some game, tell their supervisors, and it might go further if
    >your lucky... alternatly, you could email the guy which I gave you the
    >address of, and ask him as it seems to be his machine that wont pass the
    >packets.
    >


    I called him and had to leave a message.
    If anyone reads this and can trace login.gamesgrid succesfully pls
    post along with your ISP.
    I want that route and I'll change ISP's today to get it.

    cheers
    Warwick
     
    Warwick, Oct 14, 2003
    #12
  13. Warwick

    T-Boy Guest

    In article <bmfmvi$m1ecp$-berlin.de>,
    says...
    > "max" wrote
    > > >See my other post... not on Xtra's or Paradise's networks, not their
    > > >problem.

    >
    > > But it is a problem with their providers, or their providers provider,
    > > so it is still their problem, or at least they should be more helpful
    > > in resolving it.

    >
    > So you want Jo helpdesk to start making international calls on their phone
    > logon... doubt it, at best they'll notice a few people bitch about not being
    > able to play some game, tell their supervisors, and it might go further if
    > your lucky... alternatly, you could email the guy which I gave you the
    > address of, and ask him as it seems to be his machine that wont pass the
    > packets.


    I think the Xtra helpdesk should have tried all of the above.

    --
    Duncan
     
    T-Boy, Oct 14, 2003
    #13
  14. Warwick

    max Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:43:05 +1300, Warwick <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:26:31 +1300, "T.N.O." <> wrote:
    >
    >>"max" wrote
    >>> >See my other post... not on Xtra's or Paradise's networks, not their
    >>> >problem.

    >>
    >>> But it is a problem with their providers, or their providers provider,
    >>> so it is still their problem, or at least they should be more helpful
    >>> in resolving it.

    >>
    >>So you want Jo helpdesk to start making international calls on their phone
    >>logon... doubt it, at best they'll notice a few people bitch about not being
    >>able to play some game, tell their supervisors, and it might go further if
    >>your lucky... alternatly, you could email the guy which I gave you the
    >>address of, and ask him as it seems to be his machine that wont pass the
    >>packets.
    >>

    >
    >I called him and had to leave a message.
    >If anyone reads this and can trace login.gamesgrid succesfully pls
    >post along with your ISP.
    >I want that route and I'll change ISP's today to get it.
    >
    >cheers
    >Warwick



    Can get there with slingshot

    Report for login.gamesgrid.com [216.218.245.195]

    Analysis: 'login.gamesgrid.com' [beech.gamesgrid.com] was found in 17
    hops (TTL=114).

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Hop | %Loss | IP Address | Node Name | Location | Tzone | ms | Graph | Network |
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    | 0 | | | nas3.wlg.callplus.net.nz | - | | | | Attica Communications Limited |
    | 1 | | | nas3.wlg.tranzpeer.net | ?(New Zealand) | +12:00 | 181 | -x- | Attica Communications Limited |
    | 2 | | | cer1.wlg.tranzpeer.net | ?(New Zealand) | +12:00 | 156 | x- | Attica Communications Limited |
    | 3 | | 2 | - | ?(New Zealand) | +12:00 | 152 | x | Attica Communications Limited |
    | 4 | | 202.180.64.71 | vlan5.br1.akl.tranzpeer.net | ?(New Zealand) | +12:00 | 247 | --x---- | Attica Communications Limited |
    | 5 | | 64.208.86.49 | - | ... | | 150 | x- | Global Crossing GBLX-11A |
    | 6 | | 203.192.136.109 | so0-2-1-155M.cr1.SYD1.gblx.net | - | | 197 | -x- | Asia Global Crossing Japan IP hub |
    | 7 | | 203.192.136.78 | pos13-0-155M.cr1.NRT1.gblx.net | Tokyo, Japan | +09:00 | 313 | -x- | Asia Global Crossing Japan IP hub |
    | 8 | | 203.192.145.82 | ge12-0-1000M.ar1.NRT5.gblx.net | Tokyo, Japan | +09:00 | 296 | -x-- | Asia Global Crossing Japan IP hub |
    | 9 | | 203.192.145.74 | ge2-2-0-1000M.br1.NRT2.gblx.net | Tokyo, Japan | +09:00 | 287 | x- | Asia Global Crossing Japan IP hub |
    | 10 | | 203.192.129.42 | - | ?Tokyo, Japan | +09:00 | 291 | -x | B2B Communications |
    | 11 | | 208.184.210.30 | so-2-1-0.cr1.nrt3.jp.mfnx.net | - | | 290 | -x | Abovenet Communications, Inc ABOVENET-6 |
    | 12 | | 64.125.30.26 | so-4-1-0.cr2.sjc3.us.above.net | San Jose, CA, USA | -08:00 | 372 | -x- | Abovenet Communications, Inc ABOVENET |
    | 13 | | 208.185.175.150 | so-7-0-0.mpr4.sjc2.us.above.net | San Jose, CA, USA | -08:00 | 369 | -x | Abovenet Communications, Inc ABOVENET-6 |
    | 14 | | 64.125.30.94 | so-0-0-0.er10a.sjc2.us.above.net | San Jose, CA, USA | -08:00 | 416 | --x- | Abovenet Communications, Inc ABOVENET |
    | 15 | | 208.185.182.61 | 208.185.182.61.he.net | - | | 420 | --x-- | Abovenet Communications, Inc ABOVENET-6 |
    | 16 | | 64.71.128.182 | gige-g4-0.gsr12008.fmt.he.net | - | | 422 | -x-- | Hurricane Electric HURRICANE-2 |
    | 17 | | 216.218.245.195 | login.gamesgrid.com | ... | | 398 | x-- | Hurricane Electric HURRICANE-1 |
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    max, Oct 14, 2003
    #14
  15. Warwick

    T.N.O. Guest

    "T-Boy" wrote
    > I think the Xtra helpdesk should have tried all of the above.


    Should have yes, but would they have... doubt it.

    Could they have done that and fitted into a four minute talk time?
     
    T.N.O., Oct 14, 2003
    #15
  16. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:40:44 +1300, "T.N.O." <> wrote:

    >"Warwick" wrote
    >> You maybe right - maybe its not xtra's problem.
    >> This means they haven't bothered to bind someone at the other end of
    >> the subsea cable into a contract for onward delivery of packets.
    >> This means they are a less than perfect ISP.

    >
    >Or, have a more casual relationship with their peers... I wouldn't think so
    >though, being Telecom :).
    >
    >> I don't think that is an unreasonable request.

    >
    >I was a little terse with my reply, for that, I apologise... just had an
    >argument with a user... grrr
    >


    Apology accepted with thanks :)
    I'd add it wasn't necessary, I was in no way offended by your post,
    debate is a healthy thing :)

    best
     
    Warwick, Oct 14, 2003
    #16
  17. In article <>,
    says...
    > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:26:31 +1300, "T.N.O." <> wrote:
    >
    > >"max" wrote
    > >> >See my other post... not on Xtra's or Paradise's networks, not their
    > >> >problem.

    > >
    > >> But it is a problem with their providers, or their providers provider,
    > >> so it is still their problem, or at least they should be more helpful
    > >> in resolving it.

    > >
    > >So you want Jo helpdesk to start making international calls on their phone
    > >logon... doubt it, at best they'll notice a few people bitch about not being
    > >able to play some game, tell their supervisors, and it might go further if
    > >your lucky... alternatly, you could email the guy which I gave you the
    > >address of, and ask him as it seems to be his machine that wont pass the
    > >packets.
    > >

    >
    > I called him and had to leave a message.
    > If anyone reads this and can trace login.gamesgrid succesfully pls
    > post along with your ISP.
    > I want that route and I'll change ISP's today to get it.
    >
    > cheers
    > Warwick
    >
    >


    Tuesday, October 14, 2003 04:54:31PM

    TraceRoute to host login.gamesgrid.com

    # Address Host Name
    Response Time
    1 No response from this hop
    2 192.168.4.2 Unavailable
    102 ms
    3 192.168.254.42 Unavailable
    491 ms
    4 203.109.156.145 v-93-tig-nz-akl-core-1.ihug.net
    484 ms
    5 203.109.156.98 203-109-156-98.ihug.net
    477 ms
    6 203.98.23.113 g0-1-0-1032.icore2.tspn.telstraclear.net
    480 ms
    7 203.98.4.3 ge0-0-0.nzsx-core1.akl.telstraclear.net
    493 ms
    8 202.84.219.101 Unavailable
    496 ms
    9 202.84.143.62 i-0-0.paix-core01.net.reach.com
    513 ms
    10 202.84.251.68 i-1-0.paix04.net.reach.com
    510 ms
    11 198.32.176.20 paix.he.net
    414 ms
    12 64.71.128.177 gige-g1-0.gsr12008.fmt.he.net
    415 ms
    13 216.218.245.195 beech.gamesgrid.com
    418 ms


    This is done through my Ihug Ultra connection.

    Sorry my newsreader munched the text formatting.

    h.t.h. -Peter

    --

    Please note munged reply address - delete the obvious ....
     
    Peter Huebner, Oct 14, 2003
    #17
  18. In article <bmfpa0$meefm$-berlin.de>,
    says...
    > "T-Boy" wrote
    > > I think the Xtra helpdesk should have tried all of the above.

    >
    > Should have yes, but would they have... doubt it.
    >
    > Could they have done that and fitted into a four minute talk time?


    All I can say that, when I had a tech problem and called Ihug's help
    desk, they would've done something about it; I have severally had
    experience of this. Including support people going off, leaving their set
    to consult with others, or getting their supervisor to come talk to me.

    In Warwicks place I would've asked for the supervisor a loooong time
    before that dunce hung up on me. Sounds to me like that guy(grl) was
    working on his/her chances to be in the bastard operator from hell
    awards.

    -Peter

    --

    Please note munged reply address - delete the obvious ....
     
    Peter Huebner, Oct 14, 2003
    #18
  19. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    Thank-you for those traces Max & Peter.

    Problem fixed with an IHUG account.

    Didnt get disqualified from tourney, eliminated myself by playing like
    a wally instead :) (im gonna blame stress levels for that).

    coupla points
    Interesting to see that some of Telecoms competitors have found a
    cheaper route through Asia to PAIX. Geographically that seems like
    nonsense but cest la vie.

    IHUG has a heap of news servers, allocated by regions. For some odd
    reason (I haven't bothered to work out why) Forte Agent found a LOT of
    headers (maybe an Agent indexing issue) - several hundred thousand.

    Having had a frustrating day I just let it do its own thing in its own
    time with getting headers. IHUGS news server appear to be faster than
    xtra's by several factors, if not an entire magnitude.

    best
    Warwick
     
    Warwick, Oct 14, 2003
    #19
  20. Warwick

    bt Guest

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:56:32 +1300, Warwick <> wrote:

    >I know this is a familar them however the conversation I just had with
    >Culpis and xtra help desk defies imagination.
    >
    >I've got an obligation to play in an online tournament and I can't
    >access the server - or the server status page.
    >
    >Traces reveal a problem at PAIX - Global Gateway is not onward
    >delivering my packets to Hurricane Electric.
    >
    >So I call xtra help.
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    >Warwick: I beg to differ, you have a contract with your peer in USA
    >who is obliged to onward deliver packets to other servers.
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    >Warwick: If there is a peering problem in my signal path my first line
    >of inquiry is with my ISP, you should either change your peer or re
    >route my signal.
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.
    >Warwick: Would you mind then if I called your peering partner in
    >California and asked them instead? I am sorry to be insistent but I
    >must contact the host of this tournament and explain why I can't play
    >when I am supposed to and arrange a new date/time or I will be
    >disqualified.
    >Culpis: No I can't provide you with that information.
    >Warwick: Lets say a ship ran over the subsea cable and every website
    >outside of NZ was unavailable. Whose problem is that?
    >Culpis: Good question.
    >Warwick: Can you then at least provide me with an ETA for resolution?
    >Culpis: If you can connect to the internet its not our problem.


    Consumer Gaurantee's Act.

    Must be Fit for the Purpose. Of merchantable quality.

    I suggest that an inconsistant and/or faulty connection to a common or
    expected service qualifies.

    And also: you could not connect to the internet. You could connect to
    parts of it, but not all - and by definition parts of a whole are NOT
    the whole.

    Aside: what a pack of fuckwits.

    Aside 2: what was the torunament ?


    Brendan (Avatar)

    --
    ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸

    Check out my cool Water Cooling Project! http://www.computerman.orcon.net.nz/WaterCooling1.html

    Email: corum.usenet@myrealbox (dot com). No Timewasters. No UCE.
    My comments are IMHO, IIRC, FYI, and Copyright.
     
    bt, Oct 14, 2003
    #20
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