XP oem Vs retail

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by frank, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. frank

    frank Guest

    When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    the disadvantages.
    Frank
    frank, Aug 25, 2005
    #1
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  2. frank

    Livewire Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    > the disadvantages.
    > Frank
    >




    Software --

    It's probably breaking licence conditions so no (or barely) more legal
    than making a pirate copy.

    No pretty packaging

    Possibly no "extras" -- eg graphics software might come without
    templates, fonts etc

    Probably no tech support from the software makers. In fact if you ring
    for support they might say you have an illegal copy.




    Hardware

    Probably no, or sparse, instructions

    No pretty box

    no fitting gear, eg a hard drive will probably come without screws,
    brackets etc

    Less software -- eg maybe no burner program with a DVD drive

    Again little or no tech support from the makers
    Livewire, Aug 25, 2005
    #2
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  3. frank

    vbMark Guest

    frank <> wrote in news:p3hrg15rgieuktm85vkhknre2hgo2f7ua2
    @4ax.com:

    > When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    > the disadvantages.
    > Frank
    >


    I don't know of any disadvantages but another advantage I know is that you
    don't have to enter the license key every time you want to reinstall the
    OS.

    --
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Get freeware, learn things, earn money,
    http://www.vbmark.com
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    vbMark, Aug 25, 2005
    #3
  4. frank

    Patch Guest

    "frank" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    > the disadvantages.
    > Frank



    I don't think you get any support from Microsoft. That was my experience
    when I was using Win98 OEM.
    Patch, Aug 25, 2005
    #4
  5. frank

    Joel Rubin Guest

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:04:09 GMT, vbMark <> wrote:

    >I don't know of any disadvantages but another advantage I know is that you
    >don't have to enter the license key every time you want to reinstall the
    >OS.


    When I reinstalled WinXP a few months ago I had to enter the license
    key. I got an OEM version with a new computer. (so in this case it was
    perfectly legal)

    I believe Microsoft says "support" for OEM software is supposed to go
    through the vendor. So you might not get the support for which
    Microsoft is justifiably infamous.

    If a vendor sells OEM software in violation of his contract with the
    software manufacturer is the buyer in violation of any law?
    Joel Rubin, Aug 25, 2005
    #5
  6. frank

    Plato Guest

    frank wrote:
    >
    > When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    > the disadvantages.


    Often lack of printed docs or driver CDs. Sometimes lack of support from
    MS if you buy XP OEM.









    --
    http://www.bootdisk.com/
    Plato, Aug 25, 2005
    #6
  7. frank

    Ron Martell Guest

    frank <> wrote:

    >When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    >the disadvantages.
    >Frank


    1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie that
    license permanently to the first computer that it is installed on, and
    the license cannot be legitimately moved to another computer even if
    the original computer is lost, stolen, destroyed, or scrapped. A
    retail license belongs to the purchaser and may be moved from computer
    to computer to computer as the owner sees fit, subject of course to
    the requirement that it can only be installed on a single computer at
    any given time.

    2. Warranty and end-user support for OEM versions is the
    responsibility of the OEM and not of Microsoft. That is part of the
    OEM licensing agreement that the OEM signs with Microsoft. It is as
    if you purchased "Acme Computer Corp. Windows, licensed from
    Microsoft" rather than Microsoft Windows.

    3. OEM versions that come preinstalled on new computers are likely to
    be the SLP (= BIOS Locked) versions which may impose even greater
    restrictions and limitations, such as not being able to replace a
    failed motherboard (or to upgrade it) except with one from the same
    OEM, inability to use the Windows XP Recovery Console or to do a
    Repair Install.


    OEM versions can be an less expensive way of acquiring the operating
    system for a new computer, and given that over 90% of computers go to
    the scrap heap with the same operating system version and same
    hardware as they were purchased with the above considerations do not
    really affect the majority of users. But for some........

    Good luck

    Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
    --
    Microsoft MVP
    On-Line Help Computer Service
    http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

    In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    Ron Martell, Aug 25, 2005
    #7
  8. frank

    aleX Guest

    Ron Martell wrote:

    > 1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie that
    > license permanently to the first computer that it is installed on, and
    > the license cannot be legitimately moved to another computer even if
    > the original computer is lost, stolen, destroyed, or scrapped.


    That's just blatant greed, especially for an OS that is targetted at
    home users. If I buy a music CD, and my CD player subsequently dies, do
    I have to throw away the music CD too? No, because despite their many
    faults the record companies still treat (most of) their paying customers
    with a little respect.

    I've also noticed that the OEM version can be almost half the price of a
    'full' (a.k.a 'in a cardboard box') version, at least as far as high
    street retailers go. I can't vouch for internet prices. I'm not sure
    who's to blame here for the huge mark-up, MS or the retailer.

    Sorry for the rant, your information on the topic is much appreciated,
    and I'll be careful when advising people on which version to buy from
    now on. They're getting away with far too much though, aren't they? It's
    as if they've written their own rules..
    aleX, Aug 25, 2005
    #8
  9. frank

    Plato Guest

    aleX wrote:
    >
    > I've also noticed that the OEM version can be almost half the price of a
    > 'full' (a.k.a 'in a cardboard box') version, at least as far as high


    One can get OEM XP SP2 for $89 or so at OfficeMax or other stores. It
    says upgrade disk but it's the whole deal.

    Seems like a resonable price for the most recent MS OS to me.
    Plato, Aug 25, 2005
    #9
  10. frank

    Ron Martell Guest

    aleX <> wrote:

    >Ron Martell wrote:
    >
    >> 1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie that
    >> license permanently to the first computer that it is installed on, and
    >> the license cannot be legitimately moved to another computer even if
    >> the original computer is lost, stolen, destroyed, or scrapped.

    >
    >That's just blatant greed, especially for an OS that is targetted at
    >home users. If I buy a music CD, and my CD player subsequently dies, do
    >I have to throw away the music CD too? No, because despite their many
    >faults the record companies still treat (most of) their paying customers
    >with a little respect.


    Not a good analogy.

    >
    >I've also noticed that the OEM version can be almost half the price of a
    >'full' (a.k.a 'in a cardboard box') version, at least as far as high
    >street retailers go. I can't vouch for internet prices. I'm not sure
    >who's to blame here for the huge mark-up, MS or the retailer.



    Most of the price difference can be accounted for in terms of support
    and the associated costs. Retail versions include 2 free support
    calls to Microsoft. The last figures I saw indicated that the average
    cost of a tech support phone call was $US45, and that was a few years
    ago. The terms of the OEM licensing agreements require the OEMs to
    provide the end-user support for the OEM versions they sell. Most
    OEMs provide little or no support, hence no support costs, and
    therefore they can sell at a lower price.


    >
    >Sorry for the rant, your information on the topic is much appreciated,
    >and I'll be careful when advising people on which version to buy from
    >now on. They're getting away with far too much though, aren't they? It's
    >as if they've written their own rules..


    OEM products are found everywhere. Dell printers, for example, are
    OEM versions of Lexmark printers. But it is Dell and not Lexmark who
    is responsible for the end-user support and product warranty for these
    printers. Other examples would be appliances sold by large chain
    stores (e.g. Sears) under their own brand names. Very seldom do these
    chains actually own a factory that produces these items. Instead they
    are OEM versions produced by some other manufacturer who most often
    also produces the same or similar products for sale under their own
    brand name.

    Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
    --
    Microsoft MVP
    On-Line Help Computer Service
    http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

    In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    Ron Martell, Aug 25, 2005
    #10
  11. frank

    PC Guest

    snip
    > It's as if they've written their own rules..


    Just think about it!

    PeeCee
    PC, Aug 25, 2005
    #11
  12. frank

    aleX Guest

    Ron Martell wrote:
    > aleX <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Ron Martell wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie that
    >>>license permanently to the first computer that it is installed on, and
    >>>the license cannot be legitimately moved to another computer even if
    >>>the original computer is lost, stolen, destroyed, or scrapped.

    >>
    >>That's just blatant greed, especially for an OS that is targetted at
    >>home users. If I buy a music CD, and my CD player subsequently dies, do
    >>I have to throw away the music CD too? No, because despite their many
    >>faults the record companies still treat (most of) their paying customers
    >>with a little respect.

    >
    >
    > Not a good analogy.
    >
    >
    >>I've also noticed that the OEM version can be almost half the price of a
    >>'full' (a.k.a 'in a cardboard box') version, at least as far as high
    >>street retailers go. I can't vouch for internet prices. I'm not sure
    >>who's to blame here for the huge mark-up, MS or the retailer.

    >
    >
    >
    > Most of the price difference can be accounted for in terms of support
    > and the associated costs. Retail versions include 2 free support
    > calls to Microsoft. The last figures I saw indicated that the average
    > cost of a tech support phone call was $US45, and that was a few years
    > ago. The terms of the OEM licensing agreements require the OEMs to
    > provide the end-user support for the OEM versions they sell. Most
    > OEMs provide little or no support, hence no support costs, and
    > therefore they can sell at a lower price.
    >
    >
    >
    >>Sorry for the rant, your information on the topic is much appreciated,
    >>and I'll be careful when advising people on which version to buy from
    >>now on. They're getting away with far too much though, aren't they? It's
    >>as if they've written their own rules..

    >
    >
    > OEM products are found everywhere. Dell printers, for example, are
    > OEM versions of Lexmark printers. But it is Dell and not Lexmark who
    > is responsible for the end-user support and product warranty for these
    > printers. Other examples would be appliances sold by large chain
    > stores (e.g. Sears) under their own brand names. Very seldom do these
    > chains actually own a factory that produces these items. Instead they
    > are OEM versions produced by some other manufacturer who most often
    > also produces the same or similar products for sale under their own
    > brand name.
    >
    > Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada


    Thanks for your considered response Ron, I didn't mean to sound too
    abrasive, even though I do use Linux too at times :)
    I hadn't considered the support cost as an add-in, I can see how that
    would make sense.
    I think the point I was trying to make was that it isn't obvious when
    you buy the OEM version that restrictions will apply, maybe it should be
    made clearer, very few people I imagine actually read the EULA (though
    maybe they should!)
    I still think denying the right to install on a replacement machine is a
    step too far, but I imagine (at least I hope) that it is rarely enforced
    for the average Joe who's PC dies..
    aleX, Aug 25, 2005
    #12
  13. frank

    Toolman Tim Guest

    Livewire wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    >> the disadvantages.
    >> Frank
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > Software --
    >
    > It's probably breaking licence conditions so no (or barely) more legal
    > than making a pirate copy.


    Huh? You're assuming something totally wrong there.

    > No pretty packaging


    BFD

    > Possibly no "extras" -- eg graphics software might come without
    > templates, fonts etc


    The OEM version of XP is absolutely NO DIFFERENT than the retail version.
    (Read the subject line...)

    > Probably no tech support from the software makers. In fact if you ring
    > for support they might say you have an illegal copy


    OEM Windows XP tech support is the responsibility of the OEM. So if you
    install OEM XP on your computer, you *are* tech support. And MS isn't going
    to call it an 'illegal copy'. They sell OEM software to OEMs all the time.

    > Hardware


    Who said anything about hardware? He was asking about XP.

    > Probably no, or sparse, instructions
    >
    > No pretty box
    >
    > no fitting gear, eg a hard drive will probably come without screws,
    > brackets etc
    >
    > Less software -- eg maybe no burner program with a DVD drive
    >
    > Again little or no tech support from the makers




    --
    Indecision is the key to flexibility.
    Toolman Tim, Aug 26, 2005
    #13
  14. frank

    Toolman Tim Guest

    vbMark wrote:
    > frank <> wrote in
    > news:p3hrg15rgieuktm85vkhknre2hgo2f7ua2 @4ax.com:
    >
    >> When you purchase OEM from a retailer the advantage is price what are
    >> the disadvantages.
    >> Frank
    >>

    >
    > I don't know of any disadvantages but another advantage I know is
    > that you don't have to enter the license key every time you want to
    > reinstall the OS.


    Yes you do. If you get a computer with a "branded" version (like Dell, Sony,
    HP or others) your recovery system may not require putting in the CD key
    (and/or re-activation). But if you go online and buy the OEM copy of XP, it
    installs exactly the same as retail. And requires putting the key in every
    time. And reactivating every time. And if you do that too often, you'll be
    on the phone with MS explaining why.

    The primary disadvantage is that the OEM license is permanently applied to
    the machine it is first installed on. If the computer dies, XP OEM cannot be
    legally re-used on a different computer.

    --
    Indecision is the key to flexibility.
    Toolman Tim, Aug 26, 2005
    #14
  15. frank

    Toolman Tim Guest

    Joel Rubin wrote:
    > On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:04:09 GMT, vbMark <> wrote:
    >
    >> I don't know of any disadvantages but another advantage I know is
    >> that you don't have to enter the license key every time you want to
    >> reinstall the OS.

    >
    > When I reinstalled WinXP a few months ago I had to enter the license
    > key. I got an OEM version with a new computer. (so in this case it was
    > perfectly legal)
    >
    > I believe Microsoft says "support" for OEM software is supposed to go
    > through the vendor. So you might not get the support for which
    > Microsoft is justifiably infamous.
    >
    > If a vendor sells OEM software in violation of his contract with the
    > software manufacturer is the buyer in violation of any law?


    Not in my opinion - but I'm no lawyer. So, knowing that the software can't
    legally be sold without a critical piece of hardware (something which, if
    missing from a computer, would render it inoperable) I buy my OEM licenses
    with a nice piece of upgrade hardware on the same invoice. That way, no one
    could say *I* was violating the licensing agreement.

    --
    Indecision is the key to flexibility.
    Toolman Tim, Aug 26, 2005
    #15
  16. frank

    Toolman Tim Guest

    Plato wrote:
    > aleX wrote:
    >>
    >> I've also noticed that the OEM version can be almost half the price
    >> of a 'full' (a.k.a 'in a cardboard box') version, at least as far as
    >> high

    >
    > One can get OEM XP SP2 for $89 or so at OfficeMax or other stores. It
    > says upgrade disk but it's the whole deal.
    >
    > Seems like a resonable price for the most recent MS OS to me.


    The use of that upgrade software assumes you have a legal copy of the
    previous version. And IIRC (this is the big one) if you use the UPGRADE
    version to upgrade your OEM license (of say W98SE,) then the upgrade
    software carries the EULA of the original OS. So if you had OEM and upgraded
    to XP, you still have OEM. If you had a retail version and upgraded, then
    your upgrade software is a full retail version (and can therefore be moved
    to a different computer if the existing system dies or is replaced.) But I
    haven't read the agreement on the upgrade package in so long, I could be
    mistaken.

    --
    Indecision is the key to flexibility.
    Toolman Tim, Aug 26, 2005
    #16
  17. frank

    Toolman Tim Guest

    aleX wrote:
    > Ron Martell wrote:
    >> aleX <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Ron Martell wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> 1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie
    >>>> that license permanently to the first computer that it is
    >>>> installed on, and the license cannot be legitimately moved to
    >>>> another computer even if the original computer is lost, stolen,
    >>>> destroyed, or scrapped.
    >>>
    >>> That's just blatant greed, especially for an OS that is targetted at
    >>> home users. If I buy a music CD, and my CD player subsequently
    >>> dies, do I have to throw away the music CD too? No, because despite
    >>> their many faults the record companies still treat (most of) their
    >>> paying customers with a little respect.

    >>
    >>
    >> Not a good analogy.
    >>
    >>
    >>> I've also noticed that the OEM version can be almost half the price
    >>> of a 'full' (a.k.a 'in a cardboard box') version, at least as far
    >>> as high street retailers go. I can't vouch for internet prices. I'm
    >>> not sure who's to blame here for the huge mark-up, MS or the
    >>> retailer.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Most of the price difference can be accounted for in terms of support
    >> and the associated costs. Retail versions include 2 free support
    >> calls to Microsoft. The last figures I saw indicated that the
    >> average cost of a tech support phone call was $US45, and that was a
    >> few years ago. The terms of the OEM licensing agreements require
    >> the OEMs to provide the end-user support for the OEM versions they
    >> sell. Most OEMs provide little or no support, hence no support
    >> costs, and therefore they can sell at a lower price.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> Sorry for the rant, your information on the topic is much
    >>> appreciated, and I'll be careful when advising people on which
    >>> version to buy from now on. They're getting away with far too much
    >>> though, aren't they? It's as if they've written their own rules..

    >>
    >>
    >> OEM products are found everywhere. Dell printers, for example, are
    >> OEM versions of Lexmark printers. But it is Dell and not Lexmark who
    >> is responsible for the end-user support and product warranty for
    >> these printers. Other examples would be appliances sold by large
    >> chain stores (e.g. Sears) under their own brand names. Very seldom
    >> do these chains actually own a factory that produces these items. Instead
    >> they are OEM versions produced by some other manufacturer
    >> who most often also produces the same or similar products for sale
    >> under their own brand name.
    >>
    >> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

    >
    > Thanks for your considered response Ron, I didn't mean to sound too
    > abrasive, even though I do use Linux too at times :)
    > I hadn't considered the support cost as an add-in, I can see how that
    > would make sense.
    > I think the point I was trying to make was that it isn't obvious when
    > you buy the OEM version that restrictions will apply, maybe it should
    > be made clearer, very few people I imagine actually read the EULA
    > (though maybe they should!)
    > I still think denying the right to install on a replacement machine
    > is a step too far, but I imagine (at least I hope) that it is rarely
    > enforced for the average Joe who's PC dies..


    It depends on how well you can lie to Microsoft on the phone when you call
    to activate a product that MS knows was already activated on a different
    system <g>! Just kidding...

    Having to maintain a fully legal position at work regarding all our
    computers and software licenses, I do read the EULA. And in fact, have
    called MS when I needed to reinstall an OEM version on a PC that had a
    critical hardware failure. The motherboard died, and the replacment was
    significantly different (on-board video/audio/nic components), requiring a
    re-install of XP to get it running again. I called MS when the activation
    issue came up, and there was no problem getting the OS re-activated. They
    didn't feel that replacing one part of a PC was the same as trying to
    install the OS on a different PC.

    Our company manufactures building products. We market them with our trade
    name. We also sell them (for less, obviously) to other companies who sell
    them with their name on them. We do not warranty the product we sell to
    resellers if they are going to put their name on it. Part of the special
    pricing they receive is because *we* don't provide support. So I understand
    the MS OEM position completely.

    --
    Indecision is the key to flexibility.
    Toolman Tim, Aug 26, 2005
    #17
  18. frank

    Slack Guest

    > 1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie that
    > license permanently to the first computer that it is installed on, and
    > the license cannot be legitimately moved to another computer even if
    > the original computer is lost, stolen, destroyed, or scrapped.
    >
    > Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada



    This is a serious question, not trying to be argumentative, but what's
    the definition of "computer" here. If I replace my video card, is it
    now a different computer. What about the MB? I have a RAID setup: what
    if I only replace one HD?

    i.e., at what point do the replacement/upgraded components turn it into
    "another computer?"

    --
    Slack - owner of XP Pro OEM cd
    Slack, Aug 26, 2005
    #18
  19. frank

    Ron Martell Guest

    Slack <> wrote:

    >> 1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie that
    >> license permanently to the first computer that it is installed on, and
    >> the license cannot be legitimately moved to another computer even if
    >> the original computer is lost, stolen, destroyed, or scrapped.
    >>
    >> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

    >
    >
    >This is a serious question, not trying to be argumentative, but what's
    >the definition of "computer" here. If I replace my video card, is it
    >now a different computer. What about the MB? I have a RAID setup: what
    >if I only replace one HD?
    >
    >i.e., at what point do the replacement/upgraded components turn it into
    >"another computer?"


    That is a very good question, and one that has not been defined except
    in the obvious instance of a completely new computer - new case, new
    motherboard, new CPU, new RAM, new hard drives, new CDROM/CDRW/DVD,
    etc etc etc.

    In one specific instance, which is the BIOS Locked OEM versions, the
    nature of this procedure tends to focus on the motherboard. But even
    that is not decisive because the motherboard in a BIOS Locked OEM
    system can be replaced or even upgraded. It just has to be with a new
    motherboard from the same OEM as the original computer.

    Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
    --
    Microsoft MVP
    On-Line Help Computer Service
    http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

    In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    Ron Martell, Aug 26, 2005
    #19
  20. frank

    joevan Guest

    On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:15:39 GMT, Ron Martell <>
    wrote:

    >Slack <> wrote:
    >
    >>> 1. The End User License Agreement terms for an OEM version tie that
    >>> license permanently to the first computer that it is installed on, and
    >>> the license cannot be legitimately moved to another computer even if
    >>> the original computer is lost, stolen, destroyed, or scrapped.
    >>>
    >>> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

    >>
    >>
    >>This is a serious question, not trying to be argumentative, but what's
    >>the definition of "computer" here. If I replace my video card, is it
    >>now a different computer. What about the MB? I have a RAID setup: what
    >>if I only replace one HD?
    >>
    >>i.e., at what point do the replacement/upgraded components turn it into
    >>"another computer?"

    >
    >That is a very good question, and one that has not been defined except
    >in the obvious instance of a completely new computer - new case, new
    >motherboard, new CPU, new RAM, new hard drives, new CDROM/CDRW/DVD,
    >etc etc etc.
    >
    >In one specific instance, which is the BIOS Locked OEM versions, the
    >nature of this procedure tends to focus on the motherboard. But even
    >that is not decisive because the motherboard in a BIOS Locked OEM
    >system can be replaced or even upgraded. It just has to be with a new
    >motherboard from the same OEM as the original computer.
    >
    >Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

    Big reason to build your own. Big reason not to buy OEM. Big reason to
    buy generic. Just MHO. Dell causes a lot of problems when one needs to
    add some update. I assume other proprietary machines, do too. It
    reminds me of the very thing I think why IBM lost the pc business, or
    rather one reason. The cost of replacing hardware, or updating. I have
    not had problems with my own built generic but the Dell machines I
    have had to deal with I find to be much more time consuming. And
    costly. I have a new Dell machine, for example (Would I have to use
    Dell to put in a DVD burner and use their price structure?) I put a
    dvd burner in my generic machine a good dual speed for less than 70
    bucks. What would Dell charge ?
    I guess for the masses the Dell's of the computer world suffice but
    why should the others who also abhor AOL have to use that proprietary
    system. I notice Dell includes AOhell on their new stuff. More of the
    pumping the garbage to the masses. I have had to remove it a few
    times. Unnecessary baggage so to speak.
    The corporate system is too invasive. Too much. I prefer the generic.
    I guess the repair people love Dell and that stuff. Lots of hours
    redoing their systems. I guess there is some good everywhere.
    Look for the silver lining, eh. LOL





    --
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should both be changed frequently
    and for the same reason."
    joevan, Aug 26, 2005
    #20
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