XP Mode and Direct3D acceleration.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Tony Neville, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. Tony Neville

    Tony Neville Guest

    Microsoft's Virtual PC emulates an S3 Trio 32/64. Programmatically
    speaking, is it feasible for a virtual machine to expose the full
    functionality of the graphics hardware to the virtualized OS whereby the
    host OS treats the virtual machine as just another app utilizing Direct3D
    functions, while in the virtualized OS environment Direct3D thinks it has
    full ownership of an accelerated card?

    I was wanting to run some old Direct3D/OpenGL games and benchmark programs
    in XP Mode, but it just wasn't meant to be.

    Tony.
     
    Tony Neville, Nov 8, 2009
    #1
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  2. Tony Neville

    EMB Guest

    Tony Neville wrote:
    > Microsoft's Virtual PC emulates an S3 Trio 32/64. Programmatically
    > speaking, is it feasible for a virtual machine to expose the full
    > functionality of the graphics hardware to the virtualized OS whereby the
    > host OS treats the virtual machine as just another app utilizing
    > Direct3D functions, while in the virtualized OS environment Direct3D
    > thinks it has full ownership of an accelerated card?


    AIUI it doesn't work like that - you are effectively running a remote
    desktop onto the XP VM so high performance graphics ain't going to happen.

    > I was wanting to run some old Direct3D/OpenGL games and benchmark
    > programs in XP Mode, but it just wasn't meant to be.


    Dual boot with XP.
     
    EMB, Nov 8, 2009
    #2
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  3. Tony Neville

    Tony Neville Guest

    "EMB" <> wrote in message news:hd60kb$m10$...
    > Tony Neville wrote:
    >> Microsoft's Virtual PC emulates an S3 Trio 32/64. Programmatically
    >> speaking, is it feasible for a virtual machine to expose the full
    >> functionality of the graphics hardware to the virtualized OS whereby the
    >> host OS treats the virtual machine as just another app utilizing Direct3D
    >> functions, while in the virtualized OS environment Direct3D thinks it has
    >> full ownership of an accelerated card?

    >
    > AIUI it doesn't work like that - you are effectively running a remote
    > desktop onto the XP VM so high performance graphics ain't going to happen.
    >
    >> I was wanting to run some old Direct3D/OpenGL games and benchmark
    >> programs in XP Mode, but it just wasn't meant to be.

    >
    > Dual boot with XP.


    My copy has an OEM license, so I'm stuck with running it on a 2003 build.

    Tony.
     
    Tony Neville, Nov 8, 2009
    #3
  4. Tony Neville

    Richard Guest

    EMB wrote:
    > Tony Neville wrote:
    >> Microsoft's Virtual PC emulates an S3 Trio 32/64. Programmatically
    >> speaking, is it feasible for a virtual machine to expose the full
    >> functionality of the graphics hardware to the virtualized OS whereby
    >> the host OS treats the virtual machine as just another app utilizing
    >> Direct3D functions, while in the virtualized OS environment Direct3D
    >> thinks it has full ownership of an accelerated card?

    >
    > AIUI it doesn't work like that - you are effectively running a remote
    > desktop onto the XP VM so high performance graphics ain't going to happen.


    Only does the RDP thing with integration features enabled.

    On both my machines, one running 7100, one running the released one it
    will not enable integration features.

    The emulated card is slooooooooow. Also in non windows OS's in virtual
    PC it locks the mouse to it till you press something to release it back
    to windows. Double ickky.

    Without integration the application integration will not work. Still no
    joy figuring out why its not working.

    >> I was wanting to run some old Direct3D/OpenGL games and benchmark
    >> programs in XP Mode, but it just wasn't meant to be.

    >
    > Dual boot with XP.


    Sadly that is still often the case, which is a reall downer for
    productivity since unless the drives are set up so they dont see each
    other, my experieance hibernating one OS and resuming another is flakey
    at best. You actually have to shutdown one and boot the other which is a
    right PITA...
     
    Richard, Nov 8, 2009
    #4
  5. Tony Neville

    BigglesZz Guest

    On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:11:24 +1300, Tony Neville wrote:

    > "EMB" <> wrote in message news:hd60kb$m10$...
    >> Tony Neville wrote:
    >>> Microsoft's Virtual PC emulates an S3 Trio 32/64. Programmatically
    >>> speaking, is it feasible for a virtual machine to expose the full
    >>> functionality of the graphics hardware to the virtualized OS whereby
    >>> the host OS treats the virtual machine as just another app utilizing
    >>> Direct3D functions, while in the virtualized OS environment Direct3D
    >>> thinks it has full ownership of an accelerated card?

    >>
    >> AIUI it doesn't work like that - you are effectively running a remote
    >> desktop onto the XP VM so high performance graphics ain't going to
    >> happen.
    >>
    >>> I was wanting to run some old Direct3D/OpenGL games and benchmark
    >>> programs in XP Mode, but it just wasn't meant to be.

    >>
    >> Dual boot with XP.

    >
    > My copy has an OEM license, so I'm stuck with running it on a 2003
    > build.
    >
    > Tony.


    Well perhaps ... you uninstall VPC and use the free virtualbox ..
    Its a small download ... easy to use and its stable now.

    Virtualbox has 3d acceleration now, this feature is somewhat new but
    might allow you to run your old games. Plus VB with guest additions
    installed .. will mean no hot keys of grabbing / releasing the
    mouse ..its all seamless .. ie moving the mouse from the host window to
    inside the guest VM etc.

    Biggles
     
    BigglesZz, Nov 9, 2009
    #5
  6. Tony Neville

    Tony Neville Guest

    "BigglesZz" <> wrote in message
    news:hd7vf8$rkb$...
    > On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:11:24 +1300, Tony Neville wrote:
    >
    >> "EMB" <> wrote in message news:hd60kb$m10$...
    >>> Tony Neville wrote:
    >>>> Microsoft's Virtual PC emulates an S3 Trio 32/64. Programmatically
    >>>> speaking, is it feasible for a virtual machine to expose the full
    >>>> functionality of the graphics hardware to the virtualized OS whereby
    >>>> the host OS treats the virtual machine as just another app utilizing
    >>>> Direct3D functions, while in the virtualized OS environment Direct3D
    >>>> thinks it has full ownership of an accelerated card?
    >>>
    >>> AIUI it doesn't work like that - you are effectively running a remote
    >>> desktop onto the XP VM so high performance graphics ain't going to
    >>> happen.
    >>>
    >>>> I was wanting to run some old Direct3D/OpenGL games and benchmark
    >>>> programs in XP Mode, but it just wasn't meant to be.
    >>>
    >>> Dual boot with XP.

    >>
    >> My copy has an OEM license, so I'm stuck with running it on a 2003
    >> build.
    >>
    >> Tony.

    >
    > Well perhaps ... you uninstall VPC and use the free virtualbox ..
    > Its a small download ... easy to use and its stable now.
    >
    > Virtualbox has 3d acceleration now, this feature is somewhat new but
    > might allow you to run your old games. Plus VB with guest additions
    > installed .. will mean no hot keys of grabbing / releasing the
    > mouse ..its all seamless .. ie moving the mouse from the host window to
    > inside the guest VM etc.


    I will give it a go and report back. Much appreciated!

    Tony.
     
    Tony Neville, Nov 9, 2009
    #6
  7. Tony Neville

    Tony Neville Guest

    "BigglesZz" <> wrote in message
    news:hd7vf8$rkb$...
    > On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:11:24 +1300, Tony Neville wrote:

    [...]
    >> My copy has an OEM license, so I'm stuck with running it on a 2003
    >> build.
    >>
    >> Tony.

    >
    > Well perhaps ... you uninstall VPC and use the free virtualbox ..
    > Its a small download ... easy to use and its stable now.
    >
    > Virtualbox has 3d acceleration now, this feature is somewhat new but
    > might allow you to run your old games. Plus VB with guest additions
    > installed .. will mean no hot keys of grabbing / releasing the
    > mouse ..its all seamless .. ie moving the mouse from the host window to
    > inside the guest VM etc.
    >
    > Biggles


    I installed Windows XP, updated it, and installed the guest additions in
    Safe Mode. Dxdiag shows Direct3D and DirectDraw acceleration to be enabled.
    The Direct3D test for DirectX 9 succeeded while failing for dx8 and dx7.
    Texture acceleration is unavailable which explains the results I saw when
    running BattleField 1942. No textures were being rendered. Aquamark3
    detects no graphics card and yet the VirtualBox Graphics card is shown in
    Device Manager. So, not much luck so far, but at least Sun is heading down
    the right track.

    Tony.
     
    Tony Neville, Nov 9, 2009
    #7
  8. Tony Neville

    BigglesZz Guest

    On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:12:43 +1300, Tony Neville wrote:

    <snip>
    >
    > I installed Windows XP, updated it, and installed the guest additions in
    > Safe Mode. Dxdiag shows Direct3D and DirectDraw acceleration to be
    > enabled. The Direct3D test for DirectX 9 succeeded while failing for dx8
    > and dx7. Texture acceleration is unavailable which explains the results
    > I saw when running BattleField 1942. No textures were being rendered.
    > Aquamark3 detects no graphics card and yet the VirtualBox Graphics card
    > is shown in Device Manager. So, not much luck so far, but at least Sun
    > is heading down the right track.
    >
    > Tony.


    Aye i forgot about the bug with installing guest additions in safe
    mode .. sorry ,.,, and Id guess aquamark or any benchmark software would
    check for things that the basic 3d virtual box emulations cant do.

    As for Dxdiag .. hrm the virtualbox is only experimental and a limited
    subset of the Directx .. but i just tried playing the old utgoty .. One
    problem is you have to disable "mouse intergration" in the host OS
    virtualbox settings ,, but the sound and game ran fine .. 12 bots on a
    large level & 30 fps. & and this UT game came out in mid 1999 i think.


    Btw the guy who writes articles in the PC authority mag claims that the
    mac VM software can achieve the same FPS of the game being run on the
    bare bones PC hardware. providing you have top end MAC / APPLE hardware.

    So yes what your wanting to do is already achievable on the MAC virtual
    machine software. I hope SUN continues to improve its 3d support ,,


    Good luck with getting your old games running

    BigglesZ.
     
    BigglesZz, Nov 9, 2009
    #8
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