xp licencing 2nd hand machine

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by bAZZ, Aug 11, 2004.

  1. bAZZ

    bAZZ Guest

    Hi All

    Hoping someone (Nathan,Brett Roberts etc) can give me the answer on NZ
    xp licence issues.

    Been asked to have a look at machine for a friend from my wrestling
    club. He is very PC shy and recently got his first from a well known
    national 2nd hand retail chain. It has XP home installed and no software
    at all in form of CDs etc. Now he purchased it with this installed from
    them so I am presuming that for them to sell it it is licenced and
    activated etc. He wants to install software and I asked about cd etc. in
    case need any from it and there is none. He got no cd at all for
    anything even thogh it has Nero etc installed and possibly Office ( have
    to check).

    My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    version does this apply too ?

    According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    original CDs and printed manuals.

    So...are there any caveats that allow them to supply machine without the
    above ? I am going to see him tomorrow and will accompany him to store
    to demand them or refund if they won't. Just want to be 100% sure of MY
    facts before I go spouting the terms of EULA etc to them :)

    bAZZ

    and NO he won't be going the linux route as alternative so please keep
    any replies on topic. Cheers.
    bAZZ, Aug 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. bAZZ

    Gurble Guest

    On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:25:28 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:


    >
    >My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    >etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    >version does this apply too ?
    >
    >According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    >FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    >PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    >original CDs and printed manuals.
    >

    That is correct.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the CD and manual (although they're
    meant to be supplied, yada, yada), if it does not have a little
    sticker on the side or back, then it is an illegal pirated version,
    and I'm sure Microsoft would be very interested to hear about it.

    Which company is it?
    Gurble, Aug 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. bAZZ

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Gurble" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:25:28 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > >My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    > >etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    > >version does this apply too ?
    > >
    > >According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    > >FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    > >PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    > >original CDs and printed manuals.
    > >

    > That is correct.
    >
    > I wouldn't worry too much about the CD and manual (although they're
    > meant to be supplied, yada, yada), if it does not have a little
    > sticker on the side or back, then it is an illegal pirated version,
    > and I'm sure Microsoft would be very interested to hear about it.
    >


    Yeah, if it's got the COA attached (with the 25 digit key) all is sweet. If
    you need the media - then you can buy that for about $49ish.

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Aug 11, 2004
    #3
  4. In article <>, says...
    > Hi All
    >
    > Hoping someone (Nathan,Brett Roberts etc) can give me the answer on NZ
    > xp licence issues.
    >
    > Been asked to have a look at machine for a friend from my wrestling
    > club. He is very PC shy and recently got his first from a well known
    > national 2nd hand retail chain. It has XP home installed and no software
    > at all in form of CDs etc. Now he purchased it with this installed from
    > them so I am presuming that for them to sell it it is licenced and
    > activated etc. He wants to install software and I asked about cd etc. in
    > case need any from it and there is none. He got no cd at all for
    > anything even thogh it has Nero etc installed and possibly Office ( have
    > to check).


    If he bought it from say cash converters - if the chain is not a licensed
    MS dealer then there is a real question over who actually supplied the
    software.

    The most important thing you need is a license key. If it dioesn't have a
    license sticker on it there could be a real problem. Anyway you can't use
    any old CD. License keys are usually locked to a specific type of CD.


    --
    "Marriage is a lifelong covenant commitment between
    a man and a woman.

    This foundation provides the best possible
    environment to raise our children."

    See http://www.maxim.org.nz/civilunions.html
    Patrick Dunford, Aug 11, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <>,
    says...
    > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:25:28 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > >My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    > >etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    > >version does this apply too ?
    > >
    > >According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    > >FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    > >PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    > >original CDs and printed manuals.
    > >

    > That is correct.
    >
    > I wouldn't worry too much about the CD and manual (although they're
    > meant to be supplied, yada, yada), if it does not have a little
    > sticker on the side or back, then it is an illegal pirated version,
    > and I'm sure Microsoft would be very interested to hear about it.


    The problem is if you do have a key and not a CD, then that key could be
    locked to say an OEM CD and not the retail version if it has an OEM
    install. Let's say it is a brand that supplies a recovery CD, the key
    then will probably only work with that type of CD.

    Just because it is activated is not a guarantee at all, as some license
    e.g. Volume do not require any activation and aren't hardware locked.
    Someone could install the machine with that CD and their key, and then
    sell the machine.

    --
    "Marriage is a lifelong covenant commitment between
    a man and a woman.

    This foundation provides the best possible
    environment to raise our children."

    See http://www.maxim.org.nz/civilunions.html
    Patrick Dunford, Aug 11, 2004
    #5
  6. bAZZ

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > The most important thing you need is a license key.


    True.

    >If it dioesn't have a
    > license sticker on it there could be a real problem. Anyway you can't use
    > any old CD. License keys are usually locked to a specific type of CD.
    >


    Not necessarily true. Media kits can be pruchased for $49ish and *usually*
    are usable with any legitimate key.

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Aug 11, 2004
    #6
  7. bAZZ

    JohnO Guest

    "Ryan Jacobs" <> wrote in message
    news:eLoSc.12008$...
    >
    > Not necessarily true. Media kits can be pruchased for $49ish and *usually*
    > are usable with any legitimate key.
    >
    > RJ out.
    >


    Really? Wouldn't that would be overly subject to abuse?
    JohnO, Aug 11, 2004
    #7
  8. bAZZ

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "JohnO" <> wrote in message
    news:%mxSc.12124$...
    >
    > "Ryan Jacobs" <> wrote in message
    > news:eLoSc.12008$...
    > >
    > > Not necessarily true. Media kits can be pruchased for $49ish and

    *usually*
    > > are usable with any legitimate key.
    > >
    > > RJ out.
    > >

    >
    > Really? Wouldn't that would be overly subject to abuse?
    >
    >


    On the face of it, it would seem so. But, the media kit is *useless* unless
    you have a legitimate key. Obviously, installing the OS would go fine with a
    non-legit key, but when its time to activate, you'd be stuffed :)

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Aug 11, 2004
    #8
  9. bAZZ

    colinco Guest

    In article JohnO says...
    > Really? Wouldn't that would be overly subject to abuse?
    >

    Like academic copies "no id required"
    colinco, Aug 11, 2004
    #9
  10. bAZZ

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:25:28 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:

    >Hi All
    >
    >Hoping someone (Nathan,Brett Roberts etc) can give me the answer on NZ
    >xp licence issues.
    >
    >Been asked to have a look at machine for a friend from my wrestling
    >club. He is very PC shy and recently got his first from a well known
    >national 2nd hand retail chain. It has XP home installed and no software
    >at all in form of CDs etc. Now he purchased it with this installed from
    >them so I am presuming that for them to sell it it is licenced and
    >activated etc. He wants to install software and I asked about cd etc. in
    >case need any from it and there is none. He got no cd at all for
    >anything even thogh it has Nero etc installed and possibly Office ( have
    >to check).
    >
    >My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    >etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    >version does this apply too ?
    >
    >According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    >FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    >PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    >original CDs and printed manuals.
    >
    >So...are there any caveats that allow them to supply machine without the
    >above ? I am going to see him tomorrow and will accompany him to store
    >to demand them or refund if they won't. Just want to be 100% sure of MY
    >facts before I go spouting the terms of EULA etc to them :)
    >
    >bAZZ
    >
    >and NO he won't be going the linux route as alternative so please keep
    >any replies on topic. Cheers.


    Bazz this is one of those questions that gets asked over & over again
    in varying forms. The short answer is that the original EULA is the
    document you work from, MS don't have the power to arbitrarily decide
    later what is acceptable and what is not. They just give a guide which
    is intended mainly to help people identify pirated software.

    The general consensus from dealers in used PCs is that a PC has a
    legal OS if it has the original COA still attached to it. Lack of
    media isn't considered a big deal, for the simple reason the media
    itself is just a means of installing the software and not a licence of
    any kind. You buy a licence to use, you don't buy the software itself.
    Every (MS) EULA I've read says you can transfer the licence, with OEM
    licences you have to transfer it with the PC it came with, and nothing
    says you have to have the media all the while.

    That's just what I've heard & you may get other views, but it's a
    common sense approach & I doubt MS would argue it. Having the COA on
    the box is a pretty clear message that the previous owner has given up
    the licence with the PC when they sold the PC... and that is well
    within the rules.

    If it hasn't got a COA then you can safely assume it's been
    hard-loaded & almost certainly not a legal install.

    Cheers

    Gavin
    Gavin Tunney, Aug 12, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <eLoSc.12008$>,
    says...
    >
    > "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > The most important thing you need is a license key.

    >
    > True.
    >
    > >If it dioesn't have a
    > > license sticker on it there could be a real problem. Anyway you can't use
    > > any old CD. License keys are usually locked to a specific type of CD.
    > >

    >
    > Not necessarily true. Media kits can be pruchased for $49ish and *usually*
    > are usable with any legitimate key.


    Sure. They can make it work if they can get the right CD, but borrowing
    one off your mate might not work.


    --
    "Marriage is a lifelong covenant commitment between
    a man and a woman.

    This foundation provides the best possible
    environment to raise our children."

    See http://www.maxim.org.nz/civilunions.html
    Patrick Dunford, Aug 12, 2004
    #11
  12. bAZZ

    bAZZ Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:25:28 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > >My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    > >etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    > >version does this apply too ?
    > >
    > >According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    > >FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    > >PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    > >original CDs and printed manuals.
    > >

    > That is correct.
    >
    > I wouldn't worry too much about the CD and manual (although they're
    > meant to be supplied, yada, yada), if it does not have a little
    > sticker on the side or back, then it is an illegal pirated version,
    > and I'm sure Microsoft would be very interested to hear about it.
    >
    > Which company is it?
    >


    Not5 going till Monday now to see it but from phone calls it seems there
    may be a hard disk partition with everything on it. Very hard to tell
    over phone just what is and isn't installed etc.

    Will post back on Monday after seeing it and if it is dodgy then will
    post company name. Had to give them a bad rap if it is all kosher :)

    bAZZ
    bAZZ, Aug 12, 2004
    #12
  13. bAZZ

    bAZZ Guest

    In article <>,
    lid says...
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    > > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:25:28 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > >My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    > > >etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    > > >version does this apply too ?
    > > >
    > > >According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    > > >FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    > > >PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    > > >original CDs and printed manuals.
    > > >

    > > That is correct.
    > >
    > > I wouldn't worry too much about the CD and manual (although they're
    > > meant to be supplied, yada, yada), if it does not have a little
    > > sticker on the side or back, then it is an illegal pirated version,
    > > and I'm sure Microsoft would be very interested to hear about it.

    >
    > The problem is if you do have a key and not a CD, then that key could be
    > locked to say an OEM CD and not the retail version if it has an OEM
    > install. Let's say it is a brand that supplies a recovery CD, the key
    > then will probably only work with that type of CD.
    >
    > Just because it is activated is not a guarantee at all, as some license
    > e.g. Volume do not require any activation and aren't hardware locked.
    > Someone could install the machine with that CD and their key, and then
    > sell the machine.
    >
    >


    I think that may be the case Patrick but will know more on Monday when I
    go see it. I believe that there may be a partition on it ala Compaq etc
    but will wait and see.

    While I have your attention Patrick......

    Just gone back to using Gravity as my newsreader. Thunderbird just
    didn't do it for me :). One thing that really bugs me is simple but
    thought you might have known how to do it. In the newsgroup pane that
    lists subscribed groups do you know of a way to display unread posts. I
    know I can hold cursor over them and it will give a pop up dislaying
    unread/ local / server messages totals. What I would like is the little
    numbers usually in brackets that TBird and even OE of unread messages
    for each group. Trivial little thing but can't seem to find a way. Had a
    brief look in Toms Pages and got latest build while there but no help
    with it. Any ideas much appreciated.

    bAZZ
    bAZZ, Aug 12, 2004
    #13
  14. bAZZ

    bAZZ Guest

    In article <eLoSc.12008$>,
    says...
    >
    > "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > The most important thing you need is a license key.

    >
    > True.
    >
    > >If it dioesn't have a
    > > license sticker on it there could be a real problem. Anyway you can't use
    > > any old CD. License keys are usually locked to a specific type of CD.
    > >

    >
    > Not necessarily true. Media kits can be pruchased for $49ish and *usually*
    > are usable with any legitimate key.
    >
    > RJ out.
    >
    >
    >


    From Microsoft NZ I presume RJ ? If we need to go that way and get one
    do you have a link / contact to order from ?

    Thanks
    bAZZ
    bAZZ, Aug 12, 2004
    #14
  15. bAZZ

    bAZZ Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:25:28 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:
    >
    > >Hi All
    > >
    > >Hoping someone (Nathan,Brett Roberts etc) can give me the answer on NZ
    > >xp licence issues.
    > >
    > >Been asked to have a look at machine for a friend from my wrestling
    > >club. He is very PC shy and recently got his first from a well known
    > >national 2nd hand retail chain. It has XP home installed and no software
    > >at all in form of CDs etc. Now he purchased it with this installed from
    > >them so I am presuming that for them to sell it it is licenced and
    > >activated etc. He wants to install software and I asked about cd etc. in
    > >case need any from it and there is none. He got no cd at all for
    > >anything even thogh it has Nero etc installed and possibly Office ( have
    > >to check).
    > >
    > >My understanding is that if it is sold with licenced XP then original cd
    > >etc and key have to be provided. Is this true. If so if it is OEM
    > >version does this apply too ?
    > >
    > >According to Microsofts "Intellectual Property and General Licensing"
    > >FAQ (MIC5367 02/04) little green booklet page 17 Guidelines for 2nd-hand
    > >PCs it states that supplier either removes software or supplies EULA,
    > >original CDs and printed manuals.
    > >
    > >So...are there any caveats that allow them to supply machine without the
    > >above ? I am going to see him tomorrow and will accompany him to store
    > >to demand them or refund if they won't. Just want to be 100% sure of MY
    > >facts before I go spouting the terms of EULA etc to them :)
    > >
    > >bAZZ
    > >
    > >and NO he won't be going the linux route as alternative so please keep
    > >any replies on topic. Cheers.

    >
    > Bazz this is one of those questions that gets asked over & over again
    > in varying forms. The short answer is that the original EULA is the
    > document you work from, MS don't have the power to arbitrarily decide
    > later what is acceptable and what is not. They just give a guide which
    > is intended mainly to help people identify pirated software.
    >
    > The general consensus from dealers in used PCs is that a PC has a
    > legal OS if it has the original COA still attached to it. Lack of
    > media isn't considered a big deal, for the simple reason the media
    > itself is just a means of installing the software and not a licence of
    > any kind. You buy a licence to use, you don't buy the software itself.
    > Every (MS) EULA I've read says you can transfer the licence, with OEM
    > licences you have to transfer it with the PC it came with, and nothing
    > says you have to have the media all the while.


    Thanks Gavin.

    That makes sense and I would have thought that to be case too. He has
    inspected case and no sticker but until I go and have a look myself it
    is all conjecture at momement.

    My concern was he is a total newbie and at a loss how to work his
    machine let alone understand all this licence stuff :)If it goes belly
    up in future was concerned there would be no way of reinstalling etc
    especially if is some OEM version.

    I had intented to take secruity cd along and hopefully sp2 and install
    that patch it and get it secure ( got it for net/email etc) and when I
    asked him about xp (just in case something got broke !) cd he told me he
    had no eula (paper version/coa/cd etc.) just bare machine. Seems from
    phone conversations that there may be a partition on it with restore
    stuff. Apparantly there is repair/install option on start menu so I am
    told.No more on Monday.

    thanks
    bAZZ
    bAZZ, Aug 12, 2004
    #15
  16. bAZZ

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "bAZZ" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <eLoSc.12008$>,
    > says...
    > >
    > > "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > >
    > > > The most important thing you need is a license key.

    > >
    > > True.
    > >
    > > >If it dioesn't have a
    > > > license sticker on it there could be a real problem. Anyway you can't

    use
    > > > any old CD. License keys are usually locked to a specific type of CD.
    > > >

    > >
    > > Not necessarily true. Media kits can be pruchased for $49ish and

    *usually*
    > > are usable with any legitimate key.
    > >
    > > RJ out.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > From Microsoft NZ I presume RJ ? If we need to go that way and get one
    > do you have a link / contact to order from ?
    >


    Yes & no.

    Microsoft typically don't sell software direct to the public. They use
    distributors (TechPac/Express Data/etc), who also don't sell to the public.
    The distributors provide products to resellers, so your best bet is to try
    DSE/etc. If that's no good, try one of the "specialist" resellers.

    OT: now we can see why software is so expensive - every man & his dog gets a
    cut along the way, lol.

    Sometimes it may be possible to get "replacement" media direct from
    Microsoft. My personal experience (approx 3 years ago) was, I lost my Office
    2000 CDs (Retail version). I rang MS, told them the story, and they sent me
    replacement CDs. IIRC I had to pay about $35. The 2 caveats to this are - I
    had previously registered Office 2000, so they were able to verify I was
    being legit. The other caveat is that this was so long ago, that they may no
    longer do this (ie - they might refer you to a reseller).

    Oops, 2 other things. The version installed may have a big impact (OEM,
    retail, etc). And, without the COA on the box (and therefore, a valid key),
    the media kit will be no use to you.

    HTHs

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Aug 13, 2004
    #16
  17. bAZZ

    Gurble Guest

    On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:24:04 +1200, bAZZ <> wrote:

    >Not5 going till Monday now to see it but from phone calls it seems there
    >may be a hard disk partition with everything on it. Very hard to tell
    >over phone just what is and isn't installed etc.


    This is irrelevant - it still needs the Windows Cert of Authenticity
    (the wee sticker on the side) or it is a pirate version.
    Gurble, Aug 13, 2004
    #17
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