Would you guys consider MCSE etc to be "trade certificates"?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bobs, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    need to make a PR application instead.

    My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.

    I knew I should have got a bloody degree.
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bobs

    Fred Guest

    "Bobs" <> wrote in message
    news:4776ce95$...
    > I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    > wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    > you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    > Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    > that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    > my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I need
    > to make a PR application instead.
    >
    > My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    > that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >
    > I knew I should have got a bloody degree.



    Who is 'the' wife? Yours by any chance?
    Fred, Dec 29, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    Fred wrote:
    > "Bobs" <> wrote in message
    > news:4776ce95$...
    >> I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    >> wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    >> you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    >> Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    >> that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    >> my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I need
    >> to make a PR application instead.
    >>
    >> My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    >> that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >>
    >> I knew I should have got a bloody degree.

    >
    >
    > Who is 'the' wife? Yours by any chance?
    >
    >


    Thanks for that input, Fred.
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #3
  4. Bobs

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:31:36 +1300, Bobs
    <> wrote:

    >I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    >wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    >you're wondering.


    I'd consider them trade certs, but the key question is what Aussie
    immigration would think. Why don't you ring them up and ask them?

    If they're like DOTARS, they'll be open on 2nd Jan.

    > The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    >Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    >that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    >my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    >need to make a PR application instead.
    >
    >My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    > that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >
    >I knew I should have got a bloody degree.


    Sounds to me like you've got no worries, sport.
    Sue Bilstein, Dec 29, 2007
    #4
  5. Bobs

    george Guest

    On Dec 30, 11:31 am, Bobs <> wrote:
    > I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    > wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    > you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    > Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    > that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    > my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    > need to make a PR application instead.
    >
    > My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    > that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >
    > I knew I should have got a bloody degree.


    What you have is entry level paper.
    Now you have to convince an employer that you are worth taking on as a
    trainee technician where you can get the experience that will make you
    -really- employable
    george, Dec 29, 2007
    #5
  6. On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:31:36 +1300, Bobs wrote:

    > I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    > wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    > you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    > Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    > that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    > my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    > need to make a PR application instead.


    Surely if she had been given NZ citizenship then she would be in the same
    situation as yourself. It would make things easier for when you emigrate
    to Australia if she seeks and gets NZ citizenship. :eek:)


    > My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    > that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty
    > set.


    MSCE only means that you can regurgitate the M$ way. It doesn't mean you
    can provide real-world solutions.

    I suppose it *might* be considered a trade certificate in a technical
    sense. However, CCNA really is the better qualification (I'd also suggest
    that even A+ is a better. It is relatively difficult and is considerably
    more meaningful to an employer.

    If you can attain CCNA then you should be set to go. I understand that
    there are only a few (read 2 or 3 in all Australia) who actually have the
    highest Cisco qualification.


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 29, 2007
    #6
  7. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    george wrote:
    > On Dec 30, 11:31 am, Bobs <> wrote:
    >> I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    >> wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    >> you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    >> Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    >> that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    >> my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    >> need to make a PR application instead.
    >>
    >> My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    >> that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >>
    >> I knew I should have got a bloody degree.

    >
    > What you have is entry level paper.


    I'll hardly consider MCSE/CCNA as entry level certs. That would be A+
    for me. At the same time they're certainly not degree level.

    > Now you have to convince an employer that you are worth taking on as a
    > trainee technician where you can get the experience that will make you
    > -really- employable


    I've have a good 5 yrs experience already. You don't need a job offer
    for PR application. I'm just interestd if MCSE for example is a trade
    cert, my work experience is well in excess of what they ask for (2 years)
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #7
  8. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    Sue Bilstein wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:31:36 +1300, Bobs
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    >> wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    >> you're wondering.

    >
    > I'd consider them trade certs, but the key question is what Aussie
    > immigration would think. Why don't you ring them up and ask them?
    >
    > If they're like DOTARS, they'll be open on 2nd Jan.


    Yes I will. They seem easy to deal with. I am used to dealing with US
    immigration Sue. Can't call, can't email, can only see them in person
    between the hours of 9am and 12pm. Useless.

    >
    >> The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    >> Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    >> that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    >> my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    >> need to make a PR application instead.
    >>
    >> My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    >> that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >>
    >> I knew I should have got a bloody degree.

    >
    > Sounds to me like you've got no worries, sport.
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #8
  9. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC) wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:31:36 +1300, Bobs wrote:
    >
    >> I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    >> wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    >> you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    >> Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    >> that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    >> my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    >> need to make a PR application instead.

    >
    > Surely if she had been given NZ citizenship then she would be in the same
    > situation as yourself. It would make things easier for when you emigrate
    > to Australia if she seeks and gets NZ citizenship. :eek:)


    She only got PR a year ago. That would mean at least another 4 years of
    waiting.

    >
    >
    >> My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    >> that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty
    >> set.

    >
    > MSCE only means that you can regurgitate the M$ way. It doesn't mean you
    > can provide real-world solutions.


    MCSE obviously pushes Windows SErver 200x, but it also teaches network
    design indepedent of the operating systems.

    Anyway, that's not relevent. What's relevent is if they regard it as a
    trade cert.

    >
    > I suppose it *might* be considered a trade certificate in a technical
    > sense. However, CCNA really is the better qualification (I'd also suggest
    > that even A+ is a better. It is relatively difficult and is considerably
    > more meaningful to an employer.
    >
    > If you can attain CCNA then you should be set to go. I understand that
    > there are only a few (read 2 or 3 in all Australia) who actually have the
    > highest Cisco qualification.
    >
    >
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #9
  10. On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:09:28 +1300, Bobs wrote:

    > I'll hardly consider MCSE/CCNA as entry level certs.


    CCNA is in fact Cisco's basic entry level qualification, and yes it is
    not easy to get. The Cisco qualifications only get much harder after that
    one.

    MCSE is almost not worth the paper it is written on. Too many people have
    MCSE who cannot implement real-world solutions or fixes using M$ software.

    Also, if you're looking at working in networking, then MCSE is completely
    worthless.


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 29, 2007
    #10
  11. Bobs

    Adam Cameron Guest

    Are you following Robbie Deans over ;-)

    --
    Adam
    Adam Cameron, Dec 30, 2007
    #11
  12. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC) wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:09:28 +1300, Bobs wrote:
    >
    >> I'll hardly consider MCSE/CCNA as entry level certs.

    >
    > CCNA is in fact Cisco's basic entry level qualification, and yes it is
    > not easy to get. The Cisco qualifications only get much harder after that
    > one.
    >
    > MCSE is almost not worth the paper it is written on. Too many people have
    > MCSE who cannot implement real-world solutions or fixes using M$ software.


    What, you mean like degrees? The fact of the matter is that it's a
    problem throughout many industries...not just IT. People with paper
    certs/degrees.

    >
    > Also, if you're looking at working in networking, then MCSE is completely
    > worthless.
    >


    Nothing do with with your anti-microsoft bias of course. MCSE actually
    got me my current job.

    >
    Bobs, Dec 30, 2007
    #12
  13. On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:55:30 +1300, Bobs wrote:

    >> Also, if you're looking at working in networking, then MCSE is
    >> completely worthless.
    >>
    >>

    > Nothing do with with your anti-microsoft bias of course.


    Correct.

    If you want a job in Networking then you want Cisco qualifications.

    If you want a job in Desktop support then you want A+.

    Of what *real-world* benefit is MCSE? None that I know of.


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 30, 2007
    #13
  14. Bobs wrote:

    >>

    >
    > Nothing do with with your anti-microsoft bias of course. MCSE actually
    > got me my current job.
    >
    >>


    As experience increases the paper is of decreasing value. If you have
    five years well documented experience any employer worth working for
    will be looking at that rather than the paper.

    R
    Roger Dewhurst, Dec 30, 2007
    #14
  15. Bobs

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:03:24 +1300, Roger Dewhurst
    <> wrote:
    >Bobs wrote:
    >
    >>>

    >>
    >> Nothing do with with your anti-microsoft bias of course. MCSE actually
    >> got me my current job.
    >>
    >>>

    >
    >As experience increases the paper is of decreasing value. If you have
    >five years well documented experience any employer worth working for
    >will be looking at that rather than the paper.



    But in terms of accumulating points for Australian permanent
    residence, the paper will help.
    Sue Bilstein, Dec 30, 2007
    #15
  16. On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:03:24 +1300, Roger Dewhurst wrote:

    >> Nothing do with with your anti-microsoft bias of course. MCSE actually
    >> got me my current job.

    >
    > As experience increases the paper is of decreasing value. If you have
    > five years well documented experience any employer worth working for
    > will be looking at that rather than the paper.


    Agreed.


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 30, 2007
    #16
  17. Bobs

    Guest

    On Dec 30, 11:31 am, Bobs <> wrote:
    > I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    > wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    > you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    > Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    > that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    > my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    > need to make a PR application instead.
    >
    > My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    > that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >
    > I knew I should have got a bloody degree.


    http://www.australia-migration.com/page/Tradespersons/55

    Judging by the definition of Trade certificate on this page, no, MSCE
    and/or CCNA wouldn't qualify as a trade cert.

    If you have 6+ years of work experience it should count towards this
    bit:

    Recognition as a tradesperson: Where a person never entered into an
    apprenticeship contract or completed a trade test, TRA may consider
    the applicant as a qualified tradesperson if:

    * The person has been working in the trade full time for at least
    6 to 9 years
    * can prove employment as such
    * have completed some sort of vocational training in the trade
    * All claims can be substantiated with extensive documentation)

    IANAL, YMMV etc...

    Squiggle
    , Dec 30, 2007
    #17
  18. Bobs

    Guest

    On Dec 30, 11:31 am, Bobs <> wrote:
    > I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    > wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    > you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    > Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    > that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    > my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    > need to make a PR application instead.
    >
    > My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    > that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >
    > I knew I should have got a bloody degree.



    And moments after the previous post I found this page..

    http://www.australia-migration.com/page/Professionals/45
    ***
    IT occupations

    Most IT occupations are currently on the occupations in Demand
    category which means that Australia needs you !

    There are various categories of IT occupation - and we will provide
    relevant details to you in an assessment we do

    Generally, qualifications such as MSCE alone will NOT meet the
    criteria for migration as an IT Professional - additional
    qualifications and some experience will be required.
    ***

    Sorry Bobs, looks like you have to go the hard way.
    , Dec 30, 2007
    #18
  19. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    wrote:
    > On Dec 30, 11:31 am, Bobs <> wrote:
    >> I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    >> wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    >> you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    >> Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    >> that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    >> my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    >> need to make a PR application instead.
    >>
    >> My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    >> that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.
    >>
    >> I knew I should have got a bloody degree.

    >
    >
    > And moments after the previous post I found this page..
    >
    > http://www.australia-migration.com/page/Professionals/45
    > ***
    > IT occupations
    >
    > Most IT occupations are currently on the occupations in Demand
    > category which means that Australia needs you !
    >
    > There are various categories of IT occupation - and we will provide
    > relevant details to you in an assessment we do
    >
    > Generally, qualifications such as MSCE alone will NOT meet the
    > criteria for migration as an IT Professional - additional
    > qualifications and some experience will be required.
    > ***
    >
    > Sorry Bobs, looks like you have to go the hard way.


    Well, I do have additional qualifications and experience....but thanks
    for the link.
    Bobs, Dec 30, 2007
    #19
  20. In article <4776ce95$>,
    says...
    > The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    > Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    > that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    > my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    > need to make a PR application instead.
    >


    Are you sure of that? I assume your wife has NZ permanent residency (or you'd
    have immigration on your doorstep). I which case she should have no difficulty
    moving to Aus on a NZ permanent residency - at least that was the case last
    time I looked (which admittedly is over 10 years ago). It IS possible that the
    rules have been changed in Australia, but I haven't heard of any such thing.
    Worth finding out, methinks.

    -P.

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
    Peter Huebner, Dec 30, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Larry R Harrison Jr

    Would You Consider: Sony DSC707

    Larry R Harrison Jr, Feb 7, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    1,349
    jimkramer
    Feb 7, 2004
  2. Doc Martian
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    656
    Larry G
    Mar 23, 2006
  3. Larry R Harrison Jr

    Would You Consider--Canon EOS D30 or D60

    Larry R Harrison Jr, Oct 14, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    465
    Robert Barr
    Oct 22, 2004
  4. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    517
    Pete D
    Dec 23, 2004
  5. Replies:
    2
    Views:
    295
    Prime
    May 24, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page