Would I notice a difference with Nikon Silent Wave lenses?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by acorn, Oct 8, 2008.

  1. acorn

    acorn Guest

    I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
    always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with my
    80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy a D90
    for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought maybe I should
    get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I really notice the
    difference when using a Silent Wave lens?
    acorn, Oct 8, 2008
    #1
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  2. acorn

    Me Guest

    acorn wrote:
    > I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
    > always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with
    > my 80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy
    > a D90 for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought
    > maybe I should get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I
    > really notice the difference when using a Silent Wave lens?


    Depends which non AF-s 80-200 you are using. The later 2-ring versions
    are much faster than the older push-pull versions, but not quite as fast
    as the 80-200 AF-s or 70-200 VR. AF motor wind speed is the same in all
    Nikon D*0 bodies I've tried or owned. D2/3 series have a faster motor.

    What I would suggest if you're often shooting action is to consider the
    D300 rather than the D90, as the difference in body price is less than
    the difference in lens prices, and for continuous servo AF on moving
    targets, the module in the D300 is *much* better than the module in the
    D80/90, and that probably makes much more difference than the mechanical
    speed that the focus mechanism in the lens can be driven.
    Me, Oct 8, 2008
    #2
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  3. acorn

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:50:58 -0700, "acorn"
    <acorn@this_is_not_real.com> wrote:

    >I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
    >always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with my
    >80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy a D90
    >for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought maybe I should
    >get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I really notice the
    >difference when using a Silent Wave lens?


    Probably, but you would be better off buying the 16-85 and 85-200
    lens. There is no point in handicapping the D90 with a lens with a
    performance the next level down. Mind you, its all a question of
    $$$$$.



    Eric Stevens
    Eric Stevens, Oct 8, 2008
    #3
  4. acorn

    Guest

    On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:50:58 -0700, in rec.photo.digital "acorn"
    <acorn@this_is_not_real.com> wrote:

    >I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
    >always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with my
    >80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy a D90
    >for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought maybe I should
    >get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I really notice the
    >difference when using a Silent Wave lens?


    Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
    non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
    with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
    shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
    using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.
    , Oct 8, 2008
    #4
  5. acorn

    acorn Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:50:58 -0700, in rec.photo.digital "acorn"
    > <acorn@this_is_not_real.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
    >>always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with my
    >>80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy a D90
    >>for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought maybe I
    >>should
    >>get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I really notice
    >>the
    >>difference when using a Silent Wave lens?

    >
    > Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
    > non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
    > with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
    > shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
    > using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.


    I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
    priority. I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
    explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
    am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
    difference to your thinking.
    acorn, Oct 8, 2008
    #5
  6. acorn

    Guest

    On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 14:50:31 -0700, in rec.photo.digital "acorn"
    <acorn@this_is_not_real.com> wrote:


    >I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
    >priority.


    Not to belabor the point, but what do you consider "high" shutter speeds?
    My experience base is with the 70-200mm f/2.8 VR and 200-400mm f/4 VR with
    and without 1.4x and 2x TCs.

    > I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
    >explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
    >am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
    >difference to your thinking.


    Sure. The D70 had a major short coming in its implementation of continuous
    AF (AF-C) where the target is tracked and focus changed accordingly.
    However, it will allow the shutter to be released even if focus lock is not
    satisfied/confirmed. The default action in AF-S is to only allow the
    shutter to be released when the focus lock is confirmed and the shutter
    release button is fully depressed. There is a menu option to allow AF-S to
    be set so that it will release the shutter without focus lock as well. The
    D300 allows both AF-S and AF-C to be set either way, though the default for
    AF-C is release. The D200 was similar. I haven't looked at the D90, I went
    the D70/D200/D300 route. The focus system in the D300 is the improved
    CAM-3500DX system, while the D90 has the CAM-1000 system which was used in
    the D200 and was an upgrade from the CAM-900 in the D70. More focus sensors
    were added in subsequent systems which helps if you shoot moving subjects
    which don't fill the frame.
    , Oct 8, 2008
    #6
  7. acorn

    Me Guest

    Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    > "acorn" <acorn@this_is_not_real.com> wrote:
    >>>> thought maybe I should
    >>>> get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens.
    >>>> Would I really notice the
    >>>> difference when using a Silent Wave lens?
    >>> Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
    >>> non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
    >>> with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
    >>> shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
    >>> using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.

    >> I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
    >> priority. I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
    >> explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
    >> am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
    >> difference to your thinking.

    >
    > I'd guess that getting the latest version of the AF-S
    > 70-200mm f/2.8 with VR would, for your purposes make a
    > difference.
    >
    > I have the most recent (two ring) version of the AF-D
    > 80-200mm, f/2.8 ED, which I've used to shoot indoor
    > sports. Selecting "Limited" rather than "Full" focus
    > range is a good idea, otherwise it now and then will key
    > on something way too different than the last shot, and
    > you lose time getting it back to reality.
    >

    Yes - also see note below re "focus tracking with lock-on".
    > The D300 will help greatly (I've used mine with the D1,
    > the D2x and the D3).
    >
    > The AF-S mode defaults to requiring a focus lock before
    > the shutter will fire. But the focus lock is a one shot
    > effort too, so if you push the shutter button half way
    > down, the camera will focus and then lock on that focus
    > and stay there as long as you hold down the shutter
    > release button half way. (You'll probably get in the
    > habit of tapping the shutter button to get the lens
    > refocus repeatedly.) If you hold it half way down and
    > move the camera or subject for a different focus
    > distance the focus does not change. For many things
    > that is exactly what is most useful, but not always.
    >
    > The AF-C mode by default does not require focus to fire
    > the shutter, and hence will merrily take any number of
    > out of focus exposures you can manage! But focus is not
    > a one shot focus lock, and if you hold the shutter
    > release half way down the camera will continue to
    > readjust its focus. Just that if you push the shutter
    > release button all the way down it will fire the shutter
    > whether focus had been achieved or not.
    >
    > Generally, for static subjects that don't move, AF-S
    > mode works best. For sports or other instances where
    > the subject is moving, AF-C usually works best. Also
    > note that if half way pressing the shutter button
    > accurately (and not accidentally firing the shutter) is
    > difficult, the AF-ON button accomplishes the same effect
    > and may be easier to use. Also, the AF-C mode enables
    > predictive focusing to attempt a focus at a point where
    > a moving object will be by the time the image is
    > actually exposed.
    >
    > Of course there are many options for adjusting how those
    > modes work. (Or, at least there are on the D2x and the
    > D3 models that I have, but I'm not sure about the D90 or
    > D300.

    D3/300/700 AFAIK have same options, for continuous servo - selectable
    shutter or focus priority, or "both" release+focus (some compromise -
    the camera decides somehow - I never use it so can't comment more), plus
    setting focus tracking with lock-on, to adjust the delay (if any) before
    the camera seeks to acquire focus on (usually the background) if the
    subject moves out of the focus area that is selected (9/21/51 points).
    AFAIK, a difference between D80 and D90 with the same AF module is that
    3d tracking has been added to the D90 - a feature that might or might
    not be of use, it recognises patterns in the subject within the focus
    area, and attempts to track the pattern by shifting focus points used
    laterally around the frame, but with D300 not really fast enough to
    track an object coming toward you or away from you fast, where "normal"
    continuous servo mode and 9 or 21 AF points can work very well. For me
    "3d" mode seems more gimmick than useful feature, but YMMV.
    > You need to download the manuals for them, and
    > carefully read up on what each camera can do.) As
    > noted, the focus lock is required by default for AF-S
    > and not for AF-C, but that can be changed. In practice
    > the default makes the AF-S/AF-C switch a focus required
    > on/off too, which is a handy option. But for someone
    > shooting a sporting event it might be very useful to set
    > AF-C to require focus.
    >

    Unfortunately reading the manual may not be enough - you really need to
    try the cameras in conjunction with knowing what the features are to
    work out how these things work. Or you can trust opinion, that D300 (or
    better - D3/700) is a big step above anything other current model in the
    Nikon line, then spend the days or weeks learning how to use it.
    >
    > I've found that in certain circumstances the AF-S with
    > focus lock required simply will not lock, and I can't
    > fire the shutter. I switch to AF-C and use that, which
    > sometimes gets me a few out of focus shots because I
    > don't hold down the shutter release button at the half
    > way point long enough to get a focus (in AF-C it never
    > actually "locks", but the option on the D3 is that it
    > will fire if the dot indicator says it is in focus).
    >

    I've found that with lenses (ultra-wide) where with D70 and D80 there
    was difficulty achieving AF lock using the edge sensors, that the D300
    is much much better. In the case of the extreme edge sensors in the
    D3/700/300, they are still not "cross" type, but perform much better
    than the D80 or D70. Using the centre cross type sensors in low light
    with any lens, there is also no comparison.
    Me, Oct 9, 2008
    #7
  8. acorn

    Sheila Guest

    Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    > "acorn" <acorn@this_is_not_real.com> wrote:
    >>>> thought maybe I should
    >>>> get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens.
    >>>> Would I really notice the
    >>>> difference when using a Silent Wave lens?
    >>> Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
    >>> non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
    >>> with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
    >>> shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
    >>> using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.

    >> I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
    >> priority. I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
    >> explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
    >> am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
    >> difference to your thinking.

    >
    > I'd guess that getting the latest version of the AF-S
    > 70-200mm f/2.8 with VR would, for your purposes make a
    > difference.
    >
    > I have the most recent (two ring) version of the AF-D
    > 80-200mm, f/2.8 ED, which I've used to shoot indoor
    > sports. Selecting "Limited" rather than "Full" focus
    > range is a good idea, otherwise it now and then will key
    > on something way too different than the last shot, and
    > you lose time getting it back to reality.
    >
    > The D300 will help greatly (I've used mine with the D1,
    > the D2x and the D3).

    Floyd,

    Does the D300 have better image quality than the D2x? I'm
    just curious. My path was D1x, D80, D300, I skipped the D2X. My D300
    is wonderful and I love it.

    Snipped.




    --
    Sheila
    http://swdalton.com
    Sheila, Nov 14, 2008
    #8
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