Worth waiting for?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Dave Cox, Nov 29, 2003.

  1. Dave Cox

    Dave Cox Guest

    Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a camera
    with the movie mode how often do you find yourself actually using it?
    Or is it one of them things like - If your going to shoot video get a
    camcorder.

    Thanks
    Dave
     
    Dave Cox, Nov 29, 2003
    #1
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  2. Dave Cox

    Mark B. Guest

    "Dave Cox" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns944232F98459Bdcoxonramp113org@216.168.3.44...
    > Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    > leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    > would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a camera
    > with the movie mode how often do you find yourself actually using it?
    > Or is it one of them things like - If your going to shoot video get a
    > camcorder.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Dave



    If you want to shoot good video, get a camcorder. I suppose it's good for
    quick video snippets when you don't have a camcorder with you.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Nov 29, 2003
    #2
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  3. Dave Cox

    Dave Cox Guest

    "Mark B." <> wrote in
    news::

    > "Dave Cox" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns944232F98459Bdcoxonramp113org@216.168.3.44...
    >> Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    >> leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think
    >> I would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a
    >> camera with the movie mode how often do you find yourself
    >> actually using it? Or is it one of them things like - If your
    >> going to shoot video get a camcorder.
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >> Dave

    >
    >
    > If you want to shoot good video, get a camcorder. I suppose it's
    > good for quick video snippets when you don't have a camcorder with
    > you.
    >
    > Mark
    >
    >
    >


    That's what I was thinking, short little clips I could email family. I
    just got a hard on to get a camera NOW!! as my wife finally said I
    could *LOL*........any idea when the F828 will ship?
     
    Dave Cox, Nov 29, 2003
    #3
  4. Dave Cox

    Cherokee-LTD Guest

    It is due to ship the day after you get fed up and buy something else!
    I have an F717 and I do like the video for off-roading and slapping up on a
    website.. other than that, I don't use it.
    -Brian

    "Dave Cox" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94423B57C887Bdcoxonramp113org@216.168.3.44...
    : "Mark B." <> wrote in
    : news::
    :
    : > "Dave Cox" <> wrote in message
    : > news:Xns944232F98459Bdcoxonramp113org@216.168.3.44...
    : >> Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    : >> leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think
    : >> I would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a
    : >> camera with the movie mode how often do you find yourself
    : >> actually using it? Or is it one of them things like - If your
    : >> going to shoot video get a camcorder.
    : >>
    : >> Thanks
    : >> Dave
    : >
    : >
    : > If you want to shoot good video, get a camcorder. I suppose it's
    : > good for quick video snippets when you don't have a camcorder with
    : > you.
    : >
    : > Mark
    : >
    : >
    : >
    :
    : That's what I was thinking, short little clips I could email family. I
    : just got a hard on to get a camera NOW!! as my wife finally said I
    : could *LOL*........any idea when the F828 will ship?
     
    Cherokee-LTD, Nov 29, 2003
    #4
  5. Dave Cox <> wrote in
    news:Xns944232F98459Bdcoxonramp113org@216.168.3.44:

    > Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    > leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    > would like that feature in a digital camera.


    Before you do such a choice, you better think about
    what you want from the camera.

    The 300D is a rather large camera with very high
    image quality, good high ISO performance and the
    possibilty to get more lenses (at a rather high
    price of course).

    The F828 is a "small sensor" camera with a long zoom
    and no possibility to get any more lenses. It is more
    compact, but the picture quality is way lower. And
    the high ISO peformance is just as for any other small
    sensor camera - not all that good.

    The movie mode is the smallest difference between
    the two cameras.

    For a movie mode just for fun and to play with,
    I would get a small point and shoot camera besides
    the 300D. Or, if I wanted more serious movies, get
    a camcorder.


    Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Nov 29, 2003
    #5
  6. Dave Cox

    bmoag Guest

    "but the picture quality is way lower"
    And this conclusion is based on personal use of the camera? A consensus of
    third party tests?
    The camera is supposed to start shipping in early December. Sony is now
    taking "pre-orders" on its web-site.
     
    bmoag, Nov 29, 2003
    #6
  7. "bmoag" <> wrote in news:Ge4yb.61730$SE3.9089
    @newssvr25.news.prodigy.com:

    > "but the picture quality is way lower"
    > And this conclusion is based on personal use of the camera? A consensus of
    > third party tests?


    It is based on the camera having a 2/3 (8.8mm x 6.6mm) sensor
    and a 7x zoom. Such a small sensor and such a long zoom both
    sets limits on the possible image quality.

    The 300D has a 23mm x 15mm sensor. You can buy lots of lenses
    for that camera - even super quality prime lenses.



    Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Nov 29, 2003
    #7
  8. Dave Cox

    jriegle Guest

    Yes, and after getting some images out of a SLR camera with the large
    sensor, I don't ever want to see those noisy, over processed looking small
    sensor cameras again.
    John

    "Roland Karlsson" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9442C0282D76Arolandkarlssonchello@130.133.1.4...
    > "bmoag" <> wrote in news:Ge4yb.61730$SE3.9089
    > @newssvr25.news.prodigy.com:
    >
    > > "but the picture quality is way lower"
    > > And this conclusion is based on personal use of the camera? A consensus

    of
    > > third party tests?

    >
    > It is based on the camera having a 2/3 (8.8mm x 6.6mm) sensor
    > and a 7x zoom. Such a small sensor and such a long zoom both
    > sets limits on the possible image quality.
    >
    > The 300D has a 23mm x 15mm sensor. You can buy lots of lenses
    > for that camera - even super quality prime lenses.
    >
    >
    >
    > Roland
     
    jriegle, Nov 29, 2003
    #8
  9. Dave Cox

    Böwser Guest

    Nobody has a production unit F828 yet, so nobody knows what it can or can't
    do.

    "Dave Cox" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns944232F98459Bdcoxonramp113org@216.168.3.44...
    > Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    > leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    > would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a camera
    > with the movie mode how often do you find yourself actually using it?
    > Or is it one of them things like - If your going to shoot video get a
    > camcorder.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Dave
     
    Böwser, Nov 29, 2003
    #9
  10. Dave Cox

    gr Guest

    "Roland Karlsson" <> wrote
    > Dave Cox <> wrote
    > > Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    > > leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    > > would like that feature in a digital camera.

    >
    > Before you do such a choice, you better think about
    > what you want from the camera.


    Yeah, were you reading what he wrote?!? He said he wanted a movie mode! Just
    why do you find that so unclear?

    > The F828 is a "small sensor" camera with a long zoom
    > and no possibility to get any more lenses. It is more
    > compact, but the picture quality is way lower.


    You've never even seen any F828 images! Before you spout your Canon-biased
    drivel, perhaps you should consider that not everyone wants an oversized,
    plastic, feature-crippled paper weight. (And that's exactly what the 300D
    will be to someone who won't use it because it doesn't suit their purpose.)

    As for whether Dave should wait... definitely. If he wants a movie mode, the
    F828 will probably be the best combo camera on the market.
     
    gr, Nov 29, 2003
    #10
  11. Dave Cox

    Larry Lynch Guest

    In article <Xns94423B57C887Bdcoxonramp113org@216.168.3.44>,
    says...
    > That's what I was thinking, short little clips I could email family. I
    > just got a hard on to get a camera NOW!! as my wife finally said I
    > could *LOL*........any idea when the F828 will ship?
    >


    I have the 717 (precursor to the 828) and its movie mode is just as
    useless as the movie mode in any other digital camera.

    If you dont have a digital camera you may not know the following:

    They DONT shoot at the still-image resolution, and if you blow it up to
    make it visible to a roomfull of people on a tv or monitor it looks like
    crap.

    If you are going to spend nearly a thousand on a camera, FORGET 2 things
    about it.

    1. digital zoom
    2. video mode

    You wont get good results with either, and you will be dissapointed in
    the result.

    --
    Larry Lynch
    Lasting Imagery
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry Lynch, Nov 29, 2003
    #11
  12. "gr" <> wrote in
    news:bqaub5$1sr03m$-berlin.de:

    > Yeah, were you reading what he wrote?!? He said he wanted a movie mode!
    > Just why do you find that so unclear?


    Yes - I read what he wrote. He also asked if anyone used
    the mode. This says that he is uncertain about the value
    of the movie mode IMHO. That was why I tried to help him
    with my advice.

    > You've never even seen any F828 images! Before you spout your
    > Canon-biased drivel, perhaps you should consider that not everyone wants
    > an oversized, plastic, feature-crippled paper weight. (And that's
    > exactly what the 300D will be to someone who won't use it because it
    > doesn't suit their purpose.)


    I don't care if the camera is Canon or Sony or whatever. My
    only point was that DSLR has way bigger CCDs and therefore
    takes way better pictures. On a DSLR you also can put much
    better lenses of your own choice.

    You on the other hand seems to care a lot that he
    shall buy a Sony and not a Canon. Strange notion indeed.
    Both companies make fine cameras.

    BTW - the notion that the 300D is an expensive paper weight
    is just plain nonsens. It takes just fantastic pictures.
    It has some irritating artificial limitations. The plastic
    feel is not all that important IMHO. So, if you can live with
    the limitations, it is absolutely a fantastic camera.

    > As for whether Dave should wait... definitely. If he wants a movie mode,
    > the F828 will probably be the best combo camera on the market.


    And how do you know? Have you seen the pictures yet?

    From the tone in your post it is obvious that you
    think it is a good idea to atack people if they don't
    write exactly what you want to hear. I advice you to
    think the next time *before* you send your acid venomous
    posts.


    Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Nov 29, 2003
    #12
  13. Dave Cox

    Paolo Pizzi Guest

    Böwser wrote:

    > Nobody has a production unit F828 yet, so nobody
    > knows what it can or can't do.


    Yeah, but a small sensor is still a small sensor and
    short of a true miracle (i.e. something that breaks the
    laws of optical physics), the 828 will not be able to
    achieve the quality of a 6mp DSLR.

    And no, I'm definitely not a Canon zealot, I've used
    Nikon for over 25 years and my digital body is a
    D100.
     
    Paolo Pizzi, Nov 30, 2003
    #13
  14. Dave Cox

    ArtKramr Guest

    >Subject: Re: Worth waiting for?
    >From: "Paolo Pizzi"
    >Date: 11/29/03 10:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
    >Message-id: <7ngyb.28033$da4.18858@newssvr


    >Yeah, but a small sensor is still a small sensor and
    >short of a true miracle (i.e. something that breaks the
    >laws of optical physics),


    Exactly which law of optical physics are you talking about? And which physicist
    wrote that law? Petzval? Newton? Who exactly?

    ..
    Arthur Kramer
    344th BG 494th BS
    England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
    Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
    http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
     
    ArtKramr, Nov 30, 2003
    #14
  15. Dave Cox

    zbzbzb Guest

    >> Nobody has a production unit F828 yet, so nobody
    >> knows what it can or can't do.

    >
    >Yeah, but a small sensor is still a small sensor and
    >short of a true miracle (i.e. something that breaks the
    >laws of optical physics), the 828 will not be able to
    >achieve the quality of a 6mp DSLR.



    What "laws of optical physics" are you talking about?


    >
    >And no, I'm definitely not a Canon zealot, I've used
    >Nikon for over 25 years and my digital body is a
    >D100.
     
    zbzbzb, Nov 30, 2003
    #15
  16. Dave Cox

    Marc Libom Guest

    > Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    > leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    > would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a camera
    > with the movie mode how often do you find yourself actually using it?
    > Or is it one of them things like - If your going to shoot video get a
    > camcorder.


    the camcorder feature shouldn't be the pointing argument in your decision.
    Buy a real camcorder if this is important for you. I have a EOS300d and a
    Minolta DiMAGE A1. The A1 has a quite useful camcorder feature, but to be
    honest, I never used it as these would be another big never viewed file on
    the harddisk. For me a picture tells thousand times more than the typcial
    boring 5 minutes one scene videos shots.

    Most prosumer cameras and the snapshot models too will offer you a video
    capturing with sometimes works incredibly fine. But only you can decide, if
    you have a need to use it.
     
    Marc Libom, Nov 30, 2003
    #16
  17. Dave Cox

    Bryan Bellis Guest

    On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:28:33 +0100, "Marc Libom" <> wrote:

    >> Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    >> leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    >> would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a camera
    >> with the movie mode how often do you find yourself actually using it?
    >> Or is it one of them things like - If your going to shoot video get a
    >> camcorder.

    >
    >the camcorder feature shouldn't be the pointing argument in your decision.
    >Buy a real camcorder if this is important for you.


    This last paragraph is one that just doesn't stack up for me. It's
    often said in this group, and others, that movie mode is just a
    gimmick in digital camera's. No it's not. It's an important feature,
    and the better it does it the more I'm pleased. For example, the Sony
    DSC-V1. It does 640*480 movies with sound that are perfectly watchable
    on screen. There are others.

    Sure, if you want really good movies, a video camera does the
    business. But you don't always want to lug a digital camera plus a
    video camera around with you. Having the best of both worlds in one
    small box is very much a boon. So the question "which does it best" is
    a very pertinent question.

    --
    Bryan Bellis.
    Don't hit REPLY to email me, my spam trap will
    kill it. Use the link below instead please.

    To email me, go to this web page link:
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bryan.bellis/antispam.htm
     
    Bryan Bellis, Nov 30, 2003
    #17
  18. Dave Cox

    Bill Guest

    I agree......movie mode is a nice feature. I don't what the specifics are
    for the Sony 828 movie mode (whenever it is available). But my Fuju S602
    (and the S7000) do movies ,with audio, 40x480) and at 30 frames per second.
    It doesn't get much better than that in a digital still camera!

    Bill

    "Bryan Bellis" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:28:33 +0100, "Marc Libom" <> wrote:
    >
    > >> Is the movie mode in the Sony F828 worth waiting for? I am really
    > >> leaning towards the Canon 300D but it has no movie mode and think I
    > >> would like that feature in a digital camera. If anyone has a camera
    > >> with the movie mode how often do you find yourself actually using it?
    > >> Or is it one of them things like - If your going to shoot video get a
    > >> camcorder.

    > >
    > >the camcorder feature shouldn't be the pointing argument in your

    decision.
    > >Buy a real camcorder if this is important for you.

    >
    > This last paragraph is one that just doesn't stack up for me. It's
    > often said in this group, and others, that movie mode is just a
    > gimmick in digital camera's. No it's not. It's an important feature,
    > and the better it does it the more I'm pleased. For example, the Sony
    > DSC-V1. It does 640*480 movies with sound that are perfectly watchable
    > on screen. There are others.
    >
    > Sure, if you want really good movies, a video camera does the
    > business. But you don't always want to lug a digital camera plus a
    > video camera around with you. Having the best of both worlds in one
    > small box is very much a boon. So the question "which does it best" is
    > a very pertinent question.
    >
    > --
    > Bryan Bellis.
    > Don't hit REPLY to email me, my spam trap will
    > kill it. Use the link below instead please.
    >
    > To email me, go to this web page link:
    > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bryan.bellis/antispam.htm
     
    Bill, Nov 30, 2003
    #18
  19. (ArtKramr) wrote in
    news::

    > Exactly which law of optical physics are you talking about? And which
    > physicist wrote that law? Petzval? Newton? Who exactly?


    No one has written any laws of physics at all.
    The laws of physics has been discovered, not written.

    In the case of small sensors it is all about:
    (1) diffraction
    (2) number of photon quanta
    (3) thermal noise

    You can of course improve on todays implementation
    on (3), but (1) and (2) are very hard to do something
    about. The wavelength ofg visible ligt is slightly
    less than one micrometer and the number of photons
    is also nothing you can change.


    Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Nov 30, 2003
    #19
  20. Dave Cox

    Paolo Pizzi Guest

    zbzbzb wrote:

    >> Yeah, but a small sensor is still a small sensor and
    >> short of a true miracle (i.e. something that breaks the
    >> laws of optical physics), the 828 will not be able to
    >> achieve the quality of a 6mp DSLR.

    >
    >
    > What "laws of optical physics" are you talking about?


    Try this:

    http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/mineralogie/crystal/teaching/teaching.html
     
    Paolo Pizzi, Nov 30, 2003
    #20
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