World netbook sales

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. Interesting breakdown <http://blogs.zdnet.com/ITFacts/?p=15390>: sales were
    predominantly to EMEA, with the US trailing Asia-Pacific.

    That means these German figures showing Linux preinstalls making 5.5% of the
    total notebook market
    <http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/linux_carried_along_on_netbooks_wave>,
    and UK ones showing 2.8% of the total market
    <http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/132/1038132/linux-preloads-rocket-per-cent>
    are likely to be representative.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 20, 2009
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > Interesting breakdown <http://blogs.zdnet.com/ITFacts/?p=15390>: sales were
    > predominantly to EMEA, with the US trailing Asia-Pacific.
    >
    > That means these German figures showing Linux preinstalls making 5.5% of the
    > total notebook market
    > <http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/linux_carried_along_on_netbooks_wave>,
    > and UK ones showing 2.8% of the total market
    > <http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/132/1038132/linux-preloads-rocket-per-cent>
    > are likely to be representative.


    Representative of pre-installs, not necessarily representative of what
    those netbooks end up running.

    I personally know four people that have purchased eeePCs, two of them
    purchased the linux version and installed a (presumably pirated) copy of
    XP by the end of the week, and the other would have if the salesman had
    informed him that the linux version comes with a larger SSD (he brought
    the XP version). The last person is the only one I know that purchased
    an eeePC with the intention of running linux.
     
    Squiggle, Jan 21, 2009
    #2
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  3. In message <4976ea63$>, Squiggle wrote:

    > Representative of pre-installs, not necessarily representative of what
    > those netbooks end up running.


    An argument that works both ways.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 21, 2009
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <4976ea63$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >
    >> Representative of pre-installs, not necessarily representative of what
    >> those netbooks end up running.

    >
    > An argument that works both ways.


    Fair enough, so why are you wanking on about the figures then if you
    agree they don't represent anything in the real world?
     
    Squiggle, Jan 21, 2009
    #4
  5. In message <4976fa3b$>, Squiggle wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message <4976ea63$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >>
    >>> Representative of pre-installs, not necessarily representative of what
    >>> those netbooks end up running.

    >>
    >> An argument that works both ways.

    >
    > Fair enough, so why are you wanking on about the figures then if you
    > agree they don't represent anything in the real world?


    Because they _do_ represent what's going on in the real world.

    In the real world, how many people are capable of doing a Windows
    installation? Especially on a machine with no optical drive? Not many. What
    will your average punter do when Windows XP asks them to insert a floppy
    containing needed drivers? They won't have a clue what to do.

    Linux, by contrast, can be installed on, and from, optical drives, USB keys,
    SD cards, just about anything--if it's a block device, Linux will boot from
    it.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 21, 2009
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <4976fa3b$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> In message <4976ea63$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Representative of pre-installs, not necessarily representative of what
    >>>> those netbooks end up running.
    >>> An argument that works both ways.

    >> Fair enough, so why are you wanking on about the figures then if you
    >> agree they don't represent anything in the real world?

    >
    > Because they _do_ represent what's going on in the real world.


    Prove it.

    >
    > In the real world, how many people are capable of doing a Windows
    > installation?


    Most people that are interested in buying a netbook would have the
    ablilty to do it. Those that are technologically illiterate enough to
    not be able to install XP themselves would most likely buy the windows
    version in the first place. They'd be too scared to try and learn linux.

    > Especially on a machine with no optical drive? Not many. What
    > will your average punter do when Windows XP asks them to insert a floppy
    > containing needed drivers? They won't have a clue what to do.


    Yet eveybody I know that has tried it has managed it somehow. Maybe they
    were smart enough to google "Installing XP from a USB drive" or "install
    XP on eee" and follow one of the many guides on the subject. Or maybe
    they just get a geek friend to do it. Either way, a lot of the EEEs sold
    with linux end up with windows installed on them.

    >
    > Linux, by contrast, can be installed on, and from, optical drives, USB keys,
    > SD cards, just about anything--if it's a block device, Linux will boot from
    > it.


    And windows can't? Ever hear of BartPE?
     
    Squiggle, Jan 21, 2009
    #6
  7. In message <4977a9b3$>, Squiggle wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message <4976fa3b$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In message <4976ea63$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Representative of pre-installs, not necessarily representative of what
    >>>>> those netbooks end up running.
    >>>> An argument that works both ways.
    >>> Fair enough, so why are you wanking on about the figures then if you
    >>> agree they don't represent anything in the real world?

    >>
    >> Because they _do_ represent what's going on in the real world.

    >
    > Prove it.


    Would large numbers of people really go through the trouble and pain of
    doing their own Windows installation, when they can get it preinstalled? Be
    serious.

    >> In the real world, how many people are capable of doing a Windows
    >> installation?

    >
    > Most people that are interested in buying a netbook would have the
    > ablilty to do it. Those that are technologically illiterate enough to
    > not be able to install XP themselves would most likely buy the windows
    > version in the first place. They'd be too scared to try and learn linux.


    Those technological illiterates wouldn't even know the difference between
    Windows and Linux in the first place. They just want to get on the
    Internet, browse the Web, use e-mail, IM, VoIP, basic stuff like that. All
    of which are supported out of the box with the Linux preinstallations on
    netbooks--no trailware, demoware, crippleware or crapware.

    Which, incidentally, is why they're called "netbooks".

    >> Especially on a machine with no optical drive? Not many. What
    >> will your average punter do when Windows XP asks them to insert a floppy
    >> containing needed drivers? They won't have a clue what to do.

    >
    > Yet eveybody I know that has tried it has managed it somehow.


    Out of interest, where did they get their copies of Windows from?
    Considering that OEM licensing prohibits you transferring Windows to
    another machine.

    >> Linux, by contrast, can be installed on, and from, optical drives, USB
    >> keys, SD cards, just about anything--if it's a block device, Linux will
    >> boot from it.

    >
    > And windows can't? Ever hear of BartPE?


    And where can a technological illiterate download a BartPE-based Windows
    installation from?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 22, 2009
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <4977a9b3$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> In message <4976fa3b$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> In message <4976ea63$>, Squiggle wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Representative of pre-installs, not necessarily representative of what
    >>>>>> those netbooks end up running.
    >>>>> An argument that works both ways.
    >>>> Fair enough, so why are you wanking on about the figures then if you
    >>>> agree they don't represent anything in the real world?
    >>> Because they _do_ represent what's going on in the real world.

    >> Prove it.

    >
    > Would large numbers of people really go through the trouble and pain of
    > doing their own Windows installation, when they can get it preinstalled? Be
    > serious.


    To save ~$85 and get an extra 4GB of storage? Yes, some would. Me
    included. Admittedly there are many times more that would just buy the
    Windows version outright and buy another SD card.

    >
    >>> In the real world, how many people are capable of doing a Windows
    >>> installation?

    >> Most people that are interested in buying a netbook would have the
    >> ablilty to do it. Those that are technologically illiterate enough to
    >> not be able to install XP themselves would most likely buy the windows
    >> version in the first place. They'd be too scared to try and learn linux.

    >
    > Those technological illiterates wouldn't even know the difference between
    > Windows and Linux in the first place. They just want to get on the
    > Internet, browse the Web, use e-mail, IM, VoIP, basic stuff like that. All
    > of which are supported out of the box with the Linux preinstallations on
    > netbooks--no trailware, demoware, crippleware or crapware.
    >
    > Which, incidentally, is why they're called "netbooks".


    Or a PDA on steriods.
    >
    >>> Especially on a machine with no optical drive? Not many. What
    >>> will your average punter do when Windows XP asks them to insert a floppy
    >>> containing needed drivers? They won't have a clue what to do.

    >> Yet eveybody I know that has tried it has managed it somehow.

    >
    > Out of interest, where did they get their copies of Windows from?
    > Considering that OEM licensing prohibits you transferring Windows to
    > another machine.


    Comprehension not your strong point Lawrence? As i said in my first post
    "presumably pirated". It happens, deal with it. Then again maybe they
    had a spare retail copy of XP that they transferred over, I didn't ask,
    nor do I really care.

    >
    >>> Linux, by contrast, can be installed on, and from, optical drives, USB
    >>> keys, SD cards, just about anything--if it's a block device, Linux will
    >>> boot from it.

    >> And windows can't? Ever hear of BartPE?

    >
    > And where can a technological illiterate download a BartPE-based Windows
    > installation from?


    You download the builder then create your own image. Plenty of guides on
    the web on how to do it. And probably plenty of images on
    torrents/websites too.
     
    Squiggle, Jan 22, 2009
    #8
  9. In message <>, Squiggle wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> Would large numbers of people really go through the trouble and pain of
    >> doing their own Windows installation, when they can get it preinstalled?
    >> Be serious.

    >
    > To save ~$85 and get an extra 4GB of storage? Yes, some would.


    But add the extra cost of the copy of Windows, and you end up with a false
    saving.

    >> Out of interest, where did they get their copies of Windows from?
    >> Considering that OEM licensing prohibits you transferring Windows to
    >> another machine.

    >
    > As i said in my first post "presumably pirated". It happens, deal with it.


    But that's not really a basis for building a sustainable market. How do you
    expect Microsoft to continue offering its products on that basis? If they
    can't make money, they're going to have to give up and cede the game to
    Linux.

    >> And where can a technological illiterate download a BartPE-based Windows
    >> installation from?

    >
    > You download the builder then create your own image. Plenty of guides on
    > the web on how to do it.


    Doesn't seem to support booting off a USB key or SD card, near as I can make
    out.

    > And probably plenty of images on torrents/websites too.


    Again, it seems impossible to discuss the Microsoft option in this market
    without resorting to piracy. Is there simply no other way to use Windows?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 22, 2009
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Squiggle wrote:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> Would large numbers of people really go through the trouble and pain of
    >>> doing their own Windows installation, when they can get it preinstalled?
    >>> Be serious.

    >> To save ~$85 and get an extra 4GB of storage? Yes, some would.

    >
    > But add the extra cost of the copy of Windows, and you end up with a false
    > saving.
    >
    >>> Out of interest, where did they get their copies of Windows from?
    >>> Considering that OEM licensing prohibits you transferring Windows to
    >>> another machine.

    >> As i said in my first post "presumably pirated". It happens, deal with it.

    >
    > But that's not really a basis for building a sustainable market. How do you
    > expect Microsoft to continue offering its products on that basis? If they
    > can't make money, they're going to have to give up and cede the game to
    > Linux.


    Not likely for a long while yet. They will keep selling plenty on the
    desktop and server market for a long time, and people have been pirating
    microsoft products for decades now and they still seem to be around.

    >
    >>> And where can a technological illiterate download a BartPE-based Windows
    >>> installation from?

    >> You download the builder then create your own image. Plenty of guides on
    >> the web on how to do it.

    >
    > Doesn't seem to support booting off a USB key or SD card, near as I can make
    > out.


    Google pe2usb

    >
    >> And probably plenty of images on torrents/websites too.

    >
    > Again, it seems impossible to discuss the Microsoft option in this market
    > without resorting to piracy. Is there simply no other way to use Windows?
    >


    You seem to be ignoring the fact that the majority of netbook makers
    also sell XP versions legally. Or have you redefined the meaning of
    "this market"? There has always been piracy of proprietary software, and
    there always will be. So long as a large enough portion of the market is
    willing to buy legitimate copies the company will survive.
     
    Squiggle, Jan 23, 2009
    #10
  11. In message <gl5m0i$a5l$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > Interesting breakdown <http://blogs.zdnet.com/ITFacts/?p=15390>: sales
    > were predominantly to EMEA, with the US trailing Asia-Pacific.
    >
    > That means these German figures showing Linux preinstalls making 5.5% of
    > the total notebook market
    >

    <http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/linux_carried_along_on_netbooks_wave>,
    > and UK ones showing 2.8% of the total market
    >

    <http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/132/1038132/linux-preloads-rocket-per-cent>
    > are likely to be representative.


    Speaking of which, Microsoft is looking for netbook users to test a version
    of Windows 7 <http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1838>. Just one problem:
    their system requirements include "DVD-R/W Drive". But if it has an optical
    drive, then it's not a netbook...
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 23, 2009
    #11
  12. In message <4979088b$>, Squiggle wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message <>, Squiggle wrote:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Out of interest, where did they get their copies of Windows from?
    >>>> Considering that OEM licensing prohibits you transferring Windows to
    >>>> another machine.
    >>>
    >>> As i said in my first post "presumably pirated". It happens, deal with
    >>> it.

    >>
    >> But that's not really a basis for building a sustainable market. How do
    >> you expect Microsoft to continue offering its products on that basis? If
    >> they can't make money, they're going to have to give up and cede the game
    >> to Linux.

    >
    > Not likely for a long while yet. They will keep selling plenty on the
    > desktop and server market for a long time, and people have been pirating
    > microsoft products for decades now and they still seem to be around.


    Haven't heard the news, then? Microsoft is going to lay off 5000 staff in
    the next 18 months. Revenue is down 8% in the Windows client division, even
    though there has been no corresponding drop in overall PC hardware sales.
    So why the discrepancy? Is it because of increasing sales of netbooks,
    where Microsoft has to cut its margins to the bone to compete with Linux
    <http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1835>? Or is it because of piracy?

    >>>> And where can a technological illiterate download a BartPE-based
    >>>> Windows installation from?
    >>>
    >>> You download the builder then create your own image. Plenty of guides on
    >>> the web on how to do it.

    >>
    >> Doesn't seem to support booting off a USB key or SD card, near as I can
    >> make out.

    >
    > Google pe2usb


    What, not part of BartPE? Something else you have to download from yet
    another source and run as yet another separate series of convoluted steps?
    That's Windows ease of use for you...

    >>> And probably plenty of images on torrents/websites too.

    >>
    >> Again, it seems impossible to discuss the Microsoft option in this market
    >> without resorting to piracy. Is there simply no other way to use Windows?

    >
    > You seem to be ignoring the fact that the majority of netbook makers
    > also sell XP versions legally.


    Which was the point. Therefore the 20% of the netbook market buying the
    Linux versions have no reason to do so, unless they really want Linux.
    Nobody's forcing Linux on them--they're choosing it of their own free will.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 23, 2009
    #12
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