With un-bundling what will Telecom be charging for the use of their cable pairs??

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by stevesub, May 22, 2006.

  1. stevesub

    stevesub Guest

    I am in OZ and have not seem what Telecom will be charging for the use
    of their cable pairs.

    In OZ, Telstra charge my ISP $22 per month for the use of my cablepair
    and I need a phone connected to get ADSL which is another charge for
    me. What this means in a very competitive ADSL market, the ISP makes
    hardly any money whereas Telstra still makes heaps on a $25 per month
    ADSL plan which is what I am paying right now.

    If the cable pair charge is regulated by government, then you can
    expect to see reasonable ADSL charges, if Telecom sets its own price,
    do not expect to see cheap ADSL.
     
    stevesub, May 22, 2006
    #1
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  2. stevesub

    shannon Guest

    Re: With un-bundling what will Telecom be charging for the use oftheir cable pairs??

    stevesub wrote:
    > I am in OZ and have not seem what Telecom will be charging for the use
    > of their cable pairs.
    >
    > In OZ, Telstra charge my ISP $22 per month for the use of my cablepair
    > and I need a phone connected to get ADSL which is another charge for
    > me. What this means in a very competitive ADSL market, the ISP makes
    > hardly any money whereas Telstra still makes heaps on a $25 per month
    > ADSL plan which is what I am paying right now.
    >
    > If the cable pair charge is regulated by government, then you can
    > expect to see reasonable ADSL charges, if Telecom sets its own price,
    > do not expect to see cheap ADSL.
    >


    The government seems really keen to see phone and adsl separated

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=25636


    Key features of the final package
    Facilitating competition by improving access at the wholesale level to
    the fixed local-loop telecommunications network, through:

    * introducing local loop unbundling;
    * removing constraints on the regulated Unbundled Bitstream
    Service, including providing for “Naked DSL”;
    * requiring the preparation by Telecom of a set of regulatory
    accounts (accounting separation) based around its wholesale businesses; and
    * the preparation and disclosure by access providers of information
    to facilitate compliance with the applicable access principles set out
    in Schedule 1 of the Telecommunications Act 2001.



    Encouraging investment in alternative infrastructure (such as fibre,
    wireless and satellite networks), including by:

    * reviewing public sector investment in telecommunications
    infrastructure to encourage a whole-of-government approach;
    * reviewing whether Telecom’s ability to reduce local prices solely
    in response to new competing infrastructure investment should be
    constrained;
    * developing a rural package and expansion of the Digital Strategy
    Broadband Challenge fund in the 2007/08 Budget round;
    * ensuring competitive access to spectrum for new wireless
    applications.



    Future-proofing the regulatory environment to technology change and
    market dynamics, including by:

    * empowering the Telecommunications Commissioner to undertake
    strategic reviews of sector performance;
    * reviewing the Telecommunications Service Obligations (TSO), with
    a focus particularly on delivery of rural services;
    * undertaking further analysis on the desirability of structural
    and operational separation options.
     
    shannon, May 22, 2006
    #2
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  3. On 22 May 2006 14:58:14 -0700, "stevesub" <> wrote:

    >I am in OZ and have not seem what Telecom will be charging for the use
    >of their cable pairs.
    >
    >In OZ, Telstra charge my ISP $22 per month for the use of my cablepair
    >and I need a phone connected to get ADSL which is another charge for
    >me. What this means in a very competitive ADSL market, the ISP makes
    >hardly any money whereas Telstra still makes heaps on a $25 per month
    >ADSL plan which is what I am paying right now.
    >
    >If the cable pair charge is regulated by government, then you can
    >expect to see reasonable ADSL charges, if Telecom sets its own price,
    >do not expect to see cheap ADSL.



    I can't quote an official statement but from the Listener May 20 - 26

    <http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3445/features/6124/long_time_coming.html>

    (which will be available online on 27 May)

    Russel Brown says the fee will be determined by the Telecommunications
    Commissioner.

    --
    Regards
    Malcolm
    Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address
     
    Malcolm Moore, May 22, 2006
    #3
  4. stevesub

    Vista Guest

    "stevesub" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I am in OZ and have not seem what Telecom will be charging for the use
    > of their cable pairs.
    >
    > In OZ, Telstra charge my ISP $22 per month for the use of my cablepair
    > and I need a phone connected to get ADSL which is another charge for
    > me. What this means in a very competitive ADSL market, the ISP makes
    > hardly any money whereas Telstra still makes heaps on a $25 per month
    > ADSL plan which is what I am paying right now.
    >
    > If the cable pair charge is regulated by government, then you can
    > expect to see reasonable ADSL charges, if Telecom sets its own price,
    > do not expect to see cheap ADSL.
    >



    From what I have heard the government wants Telecom to charge about $12 per
    user. Seems very low to me. It is really up to the ISPs to charge as much as
    they want. I think we will see a lot of their services subcontracted out to
    india, such as their call centres if their margins are very low. I believe
    that Slingshot are already subcontracting out some of their call centre
    services for cold call marketing services.Australias broadband isn't much
    better than it is here, despite it being unbundled, as shown at
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3677375a6026,00.html
     
    Vista, May 23, 2006
    #4
  5. stevesub

    Nova Guest

    Re: With un-bundling what will Telecom be charging for the use oftheir cable pairs??

    Vista wrote:
    > "stevesub" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I am in OZ and have not seem what Telecom will be charging for the use
    >> of their cable pairs.
    >>
    >> In OZ, Telstra charge my ISP $22 per month for the use of my cablepair
    >> and I need a phone connected to get ADSL which is another charge for
    >> me. What this means in a very competitive ADSL market, the ISP makes
    >> hardly any money whereas Telstra still makes heaps on a $25 per month
    >> ADSL plan which is what I am paying right now.
    >>
    >> If the cable pair charge is regulated by government, then you can
    >> expect to see reasonable ADSL charges, if Telecom sets its own price,
    >> do not expect to see cheap ADSL.
    >>

    >
    >
    > From what I have heard the government wants Telecom to charge about $12 per
    > user. Seems very low to me. It is really up to the ISPs to charge as much as
    > they want. I think we will see a lot of their services subcontracted out to
    > india, such as their call centres if their margins are very low. I believe
    > that Slingshot are already subcontracting out some of their call centre
    > services for cold call marketing services.Australias broadband isn't much
    > better than it is here, despite it being unbundled, as shown at
    > http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3677375a6026,00.html
    >
    >


    Exactly, Australia are embarassed over their internet and it's better
    than ours, so we should really be embarassed!, good to see steps are
    being made to try and improve it, instead of sitting around like we have
    done until now hoping/wondering/praying that something will magically
    happen by itself.

    But heck why compare outselves to australia? do we really want to set
    the bar down low? aim high not low, you look at the best to be
    compeditive not the bottom of the barrel.
     
    Nova, May 23, 2006
    #5
  6. On Tue, 23 May 2006 13:16:45 +1200, someone purporting to be Vista didst
    scrawl:

    >
    > "stevesub" <> wrote in message
    > news:...

    *SNIP*
    >> If the cable pair charge is regulated by government, then you can
    >> expect to see reasonable ADSL charges, if Telecom sets its own price,
    >> do not expect to see cheap ADSL.

    >
    > From what I have heard the government wants Telecom to charge about $12 per
    > user. Seems very low to me.


    $8-$15 are the figures people have been mentioning. That $12 is JUST for
    Telecom, and is their cut for having to maintain the line. Not bad for
    doing absolutely nothing (if they keep their current stance on network
    maintenance), wouldn't you say?

    > It is really up to the ISPs to charge as much as they want. I think we
    > will see a lot of their services subcontracted out to india, such as
    > their call centres if their margins are very low. I believe that


    The ISP can charge whatever it wants, and even $15/month/user leaves a lot
    of leeway for an ISP to have a healthy margin at the same time as
    providing services that are far-and-away better than anything available at
    present.

    > Slingshot are already subcontracting out some of their call centre
    > services for cold call marketing services.Australias broadband isn't
    > much better than it is here, despite it being unbundled, as shown at
    > http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3677375a6026,00.html


    Two things. One, Australia is still in the thrall of Telstra, and until
    that grip is broken they will continue to be taking it from behind with a
    splintery broomstick. Two, ignore Australia. Pay attention to Iceland,
    Canada, and Finland. If people persist with this obsession about what
    Australia's doing, we'll never make it out of the bottom half because
    we'll be continually aiming for a country that's scoring below where we
    want to be. We're sniping at long range, and the sooner people click to
    that the better.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, May 23, 2006
    #6
  7. stevesub

    Vista Guest

    "Nova" <> wrote in message news:44727a7f$...
    > Vista wrote:
    >> "stevesub" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I am in OZ and have not seem what Telecom will be charging for the use
    >>> of their cable pairs.
    >>>
    >>> In OZ, Telstra charge my ISP $22 per month for the use of my cablepair
    >>> and I need a phone connected to get ADSL which is another charge for
    >>> me. What this means in a very competitive ADSL market, the ISP makes
    >>> hardly any money whereas Telstra still makes heaps on a $25 per month
    >>> ADSL plan which is what I am paying right now.
    >>>
    >>> If the cable pair charge is regulated by government, then you can
    >>> expect to see reasonable ADSL charges, if Telecom sets its own price,
    >>> do not expect to see cheap ADSL.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> From what I have heard the government wants Telecom to charge about $12
    >> per user. Seems very low to me. It is really up to the ISPs to charge as
    >> much as they want. I think we will see a lot of their services
    >> subcontracted out to india, such as their call centres if their margins
    >> are very low. I believe that Slingshot are already subcontracting out
    >> some of their call centre services for cold call marketing
    >> services.Australias broadband isn't much better than it is here, despite
    >> it being unbundled, as shown at
    >> http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3677375a6026,00.html

    >
    > Exactly, Australia are embarassed over their internet and it's better than
    > ours, so we should really be embarassed!, good to see steps are being made
    > to try and improve it, instead of sitting around like we have done until
    > now hoping/wondering/praying that something will magically happen by
    > itself.
    >
    > But heck why compare outselves to australia? do we really want to set the
    > bar down low? aim high not low, you look at the best to be compeditive not
    > the bottom of the barrel.


    Well they are a far richer country, with a larger population to spread the
    cost of such a network across. They are above is in most OECD ratings ,
    including broadband. Therefore theoretically, they should have far better
    internet services than NZ.
     
    Vista, May 23, 2006
    #7
  8. On Tue, 23 May 2006 15:20:53 +1200, someone purporting to be Vista didst
    scrawl:

    >
    > "Nova" <> wrote in message news:44727a7f$...

    *SNIP*
    >> But heck why compare outselves to australia? do we really want to set the
    >> bar down low? aim high not low, you look at the best to be compeditive not
    >> the bottom of the barrel.

    >
    > Well they are a far richer country, with a larger population to spread the
    > cost of such a network across. They are above is in most OECD ratings ,
    > including broadband. Therefore theoretically, they should have far better
    > internet services than NZ.


    Who cares? The Government wants us in the top half of the OECD within 10
    years. We're not going to get there by aiming for a country that's still
    in the bottom half!
    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, May 23, 2006
    #8
  9. On Mon, 22 May 2006 14:58:14 -0700, stevesub wrote:

    > In OZ, Telstra charge my... <snip>


    Dude - please learn how to use standard English!

    "Telstra" (that's one "Telstra" not multiple "Telstras") chargeS your ISP!


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, May 23, 2006
    #9
  10. stevesub

    Vista Guest

    "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Tue, 23 May 2006 15:20:53 +1200, someone purporting to be Vista didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    >>
    >> "Nova" <> wrote in message
    >> news:44727a7f$...

    > *SNIP*
    >>> But heck why compare outselves to australia? do we really want to set
    >>> the
    >>> bar down low? aim high not low, you look at the best to be compeditive
    >>> not
    >>> the bottom of the barrel.

    >>
    >> Well they are a far richer country, with a larger population to spread
    >> the
    >> cost of such a network across. They are above is in most OECD ratings ,
    >> including broadband. Therefore theoretically, they should have far better
    >> internet services than NZ.

    >
    > Who cares? The Government wants us in the top half of the OECD within 10
    > years. We're not going to get there by aiming for a country that's still
    > in the bottom half!
    > --
    > Matthew Poole
    > "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    >


    But politicians (and NZers too) does love to see us compared to Australia.
    Most of the TV reports prior to unbundling compared NZ offering swith
    Australia. We are almost another state of Australia anyway, and likely to
    eventually use a joint currency with them. What happens in Australia is very
    important, as it is likely to be the Australian companies (Telstra and ihug
    etc) who will be some of the main companies getting onto the unbundled
    network.
     
    Vista, May 23, 2006
    #10
  11. stevesub

    stevesub Guest

    Sorry to being the Australia thing up but I prefer to live here
    (despite it being overrun with Australians) but I spent a lifetime
    working in the Telecom industry in NZ before I moved to OZ and have an
    interest in what is going on.

    NZ will be an improvement over our offerings here in OZ but I do like
    our data caps that my ISP offers. (NOT Telstra). Margins are slim as
    over here for ISP's and I suspect NZ will go the same way.

    As for "Naked cable pairs" - I wish but then again my phone is $18 per
    month and 30c per local call. I use a calling card for tolls (6c/min to
    NZ, USA, UK, etc) or VOIP. Mobiles you can get at 15c/min now on prepay
    from Dodo - good old competition.

    Stevesub
     
    stevesub, May 23, 2006
    #11
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