Wireless security

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Joe J., Jul 26, 2008.

  1. Joe J.

    Joe J. Guest

    As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged into a
    Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from that. I
    had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for the
    next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I went into
    the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on an
    unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few days?
    As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?

    Thanks,
    Joe J
     
    Joe J., Jul 26, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Joe J.

    Boscoe Guest

    "Joe J." <> wrote in message
    news:9tFik.19105$...
    > As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged into a
    > Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from that. I
    > had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for the
    > next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I went
    > into the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on
    > an unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few
    > days? As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Joe J
    >


    The thing is with wireless networks is they announce their presence to
    anyone within range by constantly broadcasting an identity beacon called a
    Service Set Identifier [SSID]. I am in range of four of my immediate
    neighbours’ Wi-Fi networks, two of which remain completely unprotected.
    IMHO, Wi-Fi security should be switched on at all times. The only exceptions
    are during the initial setup, briefly when troubleshooting a faulty
    connection or if you take your laptop on the road and need to be able to log
    on to access points or wireless hot spots.
     
    Boscoe, Jul 26, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. You probably have no problems for a short time, but you can secure your
    wireless with a click on the right checkbox.

    You can name your router with a user-friendly name instead of the default
    name, and then change the password needed to connect from the hex-decimal (0
    thru 9, plus A thru F) address that is currently assigned to a user-friendly
    password that has the same constraints. (You can simply notate the default
    address and keep it in your desk drawer so travelling laptops that are
    paying you an authorized visit can log onto your router, or you can create a
    password that consists of 10 characters in the range of 0123456789abcdef
    that is easy for you to remember.)

    If you secure your router, then any visitor can get in when you tell them
    the password, and anybody else will have to spend far too much time trying
    to crack the code to make it worth while. And, even if they can get into the
    router, unless you have set your hard drive as a shared resource, hackers
    sitting in the street outside your house can't get past the router anyhow.





    "Joe J." <> wrote in message
    news:9tFik.19105$...
    > As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged into a
    > Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from that. I
    > had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for the
    > next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I went
    > into the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on
    > an unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few
    > days? As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Joe J
    >
     
    Jeff Strickland, Jul 26, 2008
    #3
  4. Joe J.

    Guest

    On Jul 26, 6:16 am, "Joe J." <> wrote:
    > As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged into a
    > Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from that. I
    > had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for the
    > next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I went into
    > the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on an
    > unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few days?
    > As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Joe J


    yes it does matter. Dont give anybody the chance to hack into your
    network. It only takes small steps to stop a BIG problem from
    occuring. Go ahead and secure your wireless network and you (for the
    most part) wont have to worry about unknown people connecting.
     
    , Jul 27, 2008
    #4
  5. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Jul 26, 6:16 am, "Joe J." <> wrote:
    >> As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged into
    >> a
    >> Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from that.
    >> I
    >> had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for the
    >> next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I went
    >> into
    >> the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on an
    >> unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few days?
    >> As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Joe J

    >
    > yes it does matter. Dont give anybody the chance to hack into your
    > network. It only takes small steps to stop a BIG problem from
    > occuring. Go ahead and secure your wireless network and you (for the
    > most part) wont have to worry about unknown people connecting.





    My network is secured.

    As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows freeloaders
    to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of the
    machines that are tied to the router, can they?

    I had several neighbors with unsecured networks for so long that I cancelled
    the phone service I used for dial up. I could not get past the router to
    snoop around inside their network, all I could do is get on the 'net using
    their dime. The issue is more of a theivery thing than a security problem. I
    was a broadband-deadbeat for well over a year before I got my own
    connection, and stealing bandwidth is all I could do.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Jul 27, 2008
    #5
  6. Joe J.

    Boscoe Guest

    "Jeff Strickland" <> wrote in message
    news:g6id26$o2i$...

    > My network is secured.
    >
    > As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows freeloaders
    > to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of the
    > machines that are tied to the router, can they?
    >
    > I had several neighbors with unsecured networks for so long that I
    > cancelled the phone service I used for dial up. I could not get past the
    > router to snoop around inside their network, all I could do is get on the
    > 'net using their dime. The issue is more of a theivery thing than a
    > security problem. I was a broadband-deadbeat for well over a year before I
    > got my own connection, and stealing bandwidth is all I could do.
    >
    >


    So, how come a few years ago a minor cult grew up out of the terrifying lack
    of security measures employed by many companies and the growing number of
    home wireless network users. 'Warchalkers', as they were known, roamed the
    streets ('wardriving') looking for unprotected wireless access points or
    routers. When they found one they used chalk marks to identify the premises
    to their fellows and publicised the information on the Internet. Yes, for
    the most part they confined their activities to gaining free Internet access
    but there are plenty of examples of open wireless systems being hacked into
    by crooks and vandals.
     
    Boscoe, Jul 27, 2008
    #6
  7. Joe J.

    Baron Guest

    Jeff Strickland wrote:
    > My network is secured.
    >
    > As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows
    > freeloaders to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get
    > onto any of the machines that are tied to the router, can they?


    You may think so ! I couldn't possibly comment !

    > I had several neighbors with unsecured networks for so long that I
    > cancelled the phone service I used for dial up. I could not get past
    > the router to snoop around inside their network, all I could do is get
    > on the 'net using their dime. The issue is more of a theivery thing
    > than a security problem. I was a broadband-deadbeat for well over a
    > year before I got my own connection, and stealing bandwidth is all I
    > could do.


    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
     
    Baron, Jul 27, 2008
    #7
  8. "Baron" <> wrote in message
    news:g6ihcg$5h5$...
    > Jeff Strickland wrote:
    >> My network is secured.
    >>
    >> As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows
    >> freeloaders to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get
    >> onto any of the machines that are tied to the router, can they?

    >
    > You may think so ! I couldn't possibly comment !
    >


    What makes you even bother posting shit like that?
     
    Jeff Strickland, Jul 27, 2008
    #8
  9. Joe J.

    Guest

    On Jul 27, 10:59 am, "Jeff Strickland" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Jul 26, 6:16 am, "Joe J." <> wrote:
    > >> As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged into
    > >> a
    > >> Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from that.
    > >> I
    > >> had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for the
    > >> next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I went
    > >> into
    > >> the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on an
    > >> unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few days?
    > >> As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?

    >
    > >> Thanks,
    > >> Joe J

    >
    > > yes it does matter. Dont give anybody the chance to hack into your
    > > network. It only takes small steps to stop a BIG problem from
    > > occuring. Go ahead and secure your wireless network and you (for the
    > > most part) wont have to worry about unknown people connecting.

    >
    > My network is secured.
    >
    > As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows freeloaders
    > to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of the
    > machines that are tied to the router, can they?
    >
    > I had several neighbors with unsecured networks for so long that I cancelled
    > the phone service I used for dial up. I could not get past the router to
    > snoop around inside their network, all I could do is get on the 'net using
    > their dime. The issue is more of a theivery thing than a security problem. I
    > was a broadband-deadbeat for well over a year before I got my own
    > connection, and stealing bandwidth is all I could do.



    As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows
    freeloaders
    > to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of the

    machines that are tied to the router, can they? ---

    who told you that? Having a unsecured network puts your entire
    network at risk, not just your internet connection. Stealing your
    internet would be a obvious thing to do, but they also could get
    inside the system. Meaning everything (files, folders, ect.) they have
    access to. And yes they can get access to the router. If someone gets
    into your router then they have total access to your network. They
    could redirect your packets to anywhere. They could poke holes in your
    firewall and all other sots of stuff. So please secure your network.
     
    , Jul 29, 2008
    #9
  10. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Jul 27, 10:59 am, "Jeff Strickland" <> wrote:
    >> <> wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > On Jul 26, 6:16 am, "Joe J." <> wrote:
    >> >> As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged
    >> >> into
    >> >> a
    >> >> Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from
    >> >> that.
    >> >> I
    >> >> had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for
    >> >> the
    >> >> next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I
    >> >> went
    >> >> into
    >> >> the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on
    >> >> an
    >> >> unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few
    >> >> days?
    >> >> As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?

    >>
    >> >> Thanks,
    >> >> Joe J

    >>
    >> > yes it does matter. Dont give anybody the chance to hack into your
    >> > network. It only takes small steps to stop a BIG problem from
    >> > occuring. Go ahead and secure your wireless network and you (for the
    >> > most part) wont have to worry about unknown people connecting.

    >>
    >> My network is secured.
    >>
    >> As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows
    >> freeloaders
    >> to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of
    >> the
    >> machines that are tied to the router, can they?
    >>
    >> I had several neighbors with unsecured networks for so long that I
    >> cancelled
    >> the phone service I used for dial up. I could not get past the router to
    >> snoop around inside their network, all I could do is get on the 'net
    >> using
    >> their dime. The issue is more of a theivery thing than a security
    >> problem. I
    >> was a broadband-deadbeat for well over a year before I got my own
    >> connection, and stealing bandwidth is all I could do.

    >
    >
    > As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows
    > freeloaders
    >> to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of
    >> the

    > machines that are tied to the router, can they? ---
    >
    > who told you that?


    Nobody told me. I tried to see into my neighbor's machines, but since I was
    not part of their workgroup, all I could do was get onto the Internet. This
    is what prompted my question.




    Having a unsecured network puts your entire
    > network at risk, not just your internet connection. Stealing your
    > internet would be a obvious thing to do, but they also could get
    > inside the system. Meaning everything (files, folders, ect.) they have
    > access to. And yes they can get access to the router. If someone gets
    > into your router then they have total access to your network. They
    > could redirect your packets to anywhere. They could poke holes in your
    > firewall and all other sots of stuff. So please secure your network.


    My network is secure.

    What I'm trying to understand is the mechanism that might be employed to get
    past an unsecured wireless router. I can't even get into other machines on
    my own network if the drives are not set as Shared. I can open the router
    and see all of the machines that are connected to it, but I can't get from
    the router to any of those machines. I have to open Network Places to see
    those machines, and then I can only go to the Shared resources.

    When I was a broadband deadbeat, I could go to the IP address of the router,
    and (if I worked at it long enough) get past the Username and Password,
    which at best would display the other devices connected to it. I could not
    get into those devices. So, my limited experience says that the router might
    be an access point to the Internet, I could not get to the private network
    that my neighbor had set up.

    Now that I'm no longer a broadband deadbeat, and I keep my router secured,
    this is more of a rhetorical question meant to provide a learning experience
    for me.

    Perhaps my weakness is the tool I use to test my own theory. I can enter the
    IP address of a machine connected to my router, but I don't get anywhere as
    a result. There is a report that the address is wrong, but a PING of the
    address is successful.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Jul 29, 2008
    #10
  11. Joe J.

    Guest

    On Jul 29, 12:08 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Jul 27, 10:59 am, "Jeff Strickland" <> wrote:
    > >> <> wrote in message

    >
    > >>news:...

    >
    > >> > On Jul 26, 6:16 am, "Joe J." <> wrote:
    > >> >> As I have previously posted, I have a Sprint Broadband card plugged
    > >> >> into
    > >> >> a
    > >> >> Kyocera router and then have two hard-wired desktops running from
    > >> >> that.
    > >> >> I
    > >> >> had the wireless portion of the router disabled. We have company for
    > >> >> the
    > >> >> next few days and they wanted wireless access for their laptop. I
    > >> >> went
    > >> >> into
    > >> >> the router and turned on the wireless and they now have access but on
    > >> >> an
    > >> >> unsecured connection. Do I need to worry about that for just a few
    > >> >> days?
    > >> >> As long as their laptop has a firewall does it matter?

    >
    > >> >> Thanks,
    > >> >> Joe J

    >
    > >> > yes it does matter. Dont give anybody the chance to hack into your
    > >> > network. It only takes small steps to stop a BIG problem from
    > >> > occuring. Go ahead and secure your wireless network and you (for the
    > >> > most part) wont have to worry about unknown people connecting.

    >
    > >> My network is secured.

    >
    > >> As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows
    > >> freeloaders
    > >> to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of
    > >> the
    > >> machines that are tied to the router, can they?

    >
    > >> I had several neighbors with unsecured networks for so long that I
    > >> cancelled
    > >> the phone service I used for dial up. I could not get past the router to
    > >> snoop around inside their network, all I could do is get on the 'net
    > >> using
    > >> their dime. The issue is more of a theivery thing than a security
    > >> problem. I
    > >> was a broadband-deadbeat for well over a year before I got my own
    > >> connection, and stealing bandwidth is all I could do.

    >
    > > As a practical matter, having an unsecured network only allows
    > > freeloaders
    > >> to use your Internet connection. The freeloaders can't get onto any of
    > >> the

    > > machines that are tied to the router, can they? ---

    >
    > > who told you that?

    >
    > Nobody told me. I tried to see into my neighbor's machines, but since I was
    > not part of their workgroup, all I could do was get onto the Internet. This
    > is what prompted my question.
    >
    > Having a unsecured network puts your entire
    >
    > > network at risk, not just your internet connection. Stealing your
    > > internet would be a obvious thing to do, but they also could get
    > > inside the system. Meaning everything (files, folders, ect.) they have
    > > access to. And yes they can get access to the router. If someone gets
    > > into your router then they have total access to your network. They
    > > could redirect your packets to anywhere. They could poke holes in your
    > > firewall and all other sots of stuff. So please secure your network.

    >
    > My network is secure.
    >
    > What I'm trying to understand is the mechanism that might be employed to get
    > past an unsecured wireless router. I can't even get into other machines on
    > my own network if the drives are not set as Shared. I can open the router
    > and see all of the machines that are connected to it, but I can't get from
    > the router to any of those machines. I have to open Network Places to see
    > those machines, and then I can only go to the Shared resources.
    >
    > When I was a broadband deadbeat, I could go to the IP address of the router,
    > and (if I worked at it long enough) get past the Username and Password,
    > which at best would display the other devices connected to it. I could not
    > get into those devices. So, my limited experience says that the router might
    > be an access point to the Internet, I could not get to the private network
    > that my neighbor had set up.
    >
    > Now that I'm no longer a broadband deadbeat, and I keep my router secured,
    > this is more of a rhetorical question meant to provide a learning experience
    > for me.
    >
    > Perhaps my weakness is the tool I use to test my own theory. I can enter the
    > IP address of a machine connected to my router, but I don't get anywhere as
    > a result. There is a report that the address is wrong, but a PING of the
    > address is successful.


    Ok now I see what you are saying. You can borrow their internet
    connection, but cant get access to the machines thats using that
    connection. That will be a hard task because most likely their
    firewall is blocking connections, sharing is turned off, netbios is
    disabled, and other means are protecting them. If you can actually see
    the addresses of the machines then you you've passed the first step.
    The next step would be to possible test the rules of their firewall,
    by sending random packets with different flags set, to see what gets
    by and what doesnt get by. Also a scan for open and closed ports may
    do good. The next step may be to exploit some flaw in their
    protection. Easier said than done. If you actually know where the
    access point is , you can try alittle social enginerring to get
    access.
     
    , Jul 30, 2008
    #11
  12. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Ok now I see what you are saying. You can borrow their internet
    > connection, but cant get access to the machines thats using that
    > connection. That will be a hard task because most likely their
    > firewall is blocking connections, sharing is turned off, netbios is
    > disabled, and other means are protecting them. If you can actually see
    > the addresses of the machines then you you've passed the first step.
    > The next step would be to possible test the rules of their firewall,
    > by sending random packets with different flags set, to see what gets
    > by and what doesnt get by. Also a scan for open and closed ports may
    > do good. The next step may be to exploit some flaw in their
    > protection. Easier said than done. If you actually know where the
    > access point is , you can try a little social enginerring to get
    > access.



    In my own network, I can't open a shared folder on a machine that I am
    authorized to open when I approach the machine through the IP address from
    the Command Prompt, or from the router itself. I have to use my Network
    Places.

    My point is, anybody sitting in the street looking for an Internet access
    point is likely to find one with relative ease, but getting through the
    router into the host system takes time that is better spent breaking into
    stuff from a more secure location than the front seat of a car parked in a
    neighborhood it does not belong in.

    I guess I just don't know enough about hacking ...
     
    Jeff Strickland, Jul 30, 2008
    #12
  13. Joe J.

    Guest

    On 30 Jul, 17:41, "Jeff Strickland" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > > Ok now I see what you are saying. You can borrow their internet
    > > connection, but cant get access to the machines thats using that
    > > connection. That will be a hard task because most likely their
    > > firewall is blocking connections, sharing is turned off, netbios is
    > > disabled, and other means are protecting them. If you can actually see
    > > the addresses of the machines then you you've passed the first step.
    > > The next step would be to possible test the rules of their firewall,
    > > by sending random packets with different flags set, to see what gets
    > > by and what doesnt get by. Also a scan for open and closed ports may
    > > do good. The next step may be to exploit some flaw in their
    > > protection. Easier said than done. If you actually know where the
    > > access point is , you can try a little social enginerring  to get
    > > access.

    >
    > In my own network, I can't open a shared folder on a machine that I am
    > authorized to open when I approach the machine through the IP address from
    > the Command Prompt, or from the router itself. I have to use my Network
    > Places.
    >
    > My point is, anybody sitting in the street looking for an Internet access
    > point is likely to find one with relative ease, but getting through the
    > router into the host system takes time that is better spent breaking into
    > stuff from a more secure location than the front seat of a car parked in a
    > neighborhood it does not belong in.
    >
    > I guess I just don't know enough about hacking ...


    i've hardly used wireless and not done many tests on it.. But the
    problem with a network with a wireless router is that a person that
    connects to it can see everything that any computer sends across it.
    An unsecure/insecure wireless network is easy to get into.

    So they could get info and access your email..

    They would have as much access to computers on your network as you do.
    So, indeed, a computer with no servers or no form of file sharing, is
    going to be a big restriction for them, and they'd have to maybe
    exploit a client/server on there, or get you to run a malicious file
    (may be of client or server form) to get access to it.
    Your activity would be as visible as theirs, you could see each other
    with the same techniques.. But you can perhaps be secure on an
    unsecure network , with SSH. I have seen a few places suggest that
    that be used in an internet cafe for example. From what I recall from
    my tests, I think SSH had 2 forms of running,
    -L and -R
    and -D
    the -D is particularly useful.. here. Sets up a SOCKS proxy server. so
    can act as a web proxy server.. and the connection between you and
    that is secure. So you at the internet cafe ssh to comp at home
    which runs the web proxy server and you browse from there.
    I guess a VPN might secure the whole connnection within an insecure/
    unsecure wireless network.. I haven't tried that yet.
    SSH would work on a tcp connection by tcp connection basis (I mean
    that in the sense of case by case basis).
     
    , Jul 30, 2008
    #13
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. AM
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    972
  2. Replies:
    0
    Views:
    864
  3. Rick Sears
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    541
    Rick Sears
    Jul 29, 2003
  4. COMSOLIT Messmer

    IT-Security, Security, e-security

    COMSOLIT Messmer, Sep 5, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    659
    COMSOLIT Messmer
    Sep 5, 2003
  5. Ablang
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    618
    Gimpy
    Jun 10, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page