Wireless security

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by A, Oct 5, 2005.

  1. A

    A Guest

    I finally got my wireless network up and running (well sharing the
    internet connection part anyway).

    The concern that I have is that the wireless router I have (a linksys
    befw11) is fairly old. Aside from only supporting 802.11b (which is
    more than enough for my needs) it only supports 128bit WEP security
    with no MAC filtering.

    Will this be enough? I know WEP is a bit dated and isn't that secure.

    However I live in the suburbs in a cul de sac and 802.11b has a range
    of about 33m on a good day. That means that the only people that can
    hack into my system would be my immediate neighbours or a serious
    hacker sitting outside my house with a laptop (unlikely).

    Have I got enough security or should I go buy a 802.11g wireless
    router that provides more security?
     
    A, Oct 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. A

    steve Guest

    A wrote:

    > However I live in the suburbs in a cul de sac and 802.11b has a range
    > of about 33m on a good day. That means that the only people that can
    > hack into my system would be my immediate neighbours or a serious
    > hacker sitting outside my house with a laptop (unlikely).
    >
    > Have I got enough security or should I go buy a 802.11g wireless
    > router that provides more security?


    I use the same principle.

    My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable wireless
    reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I can't
    see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.

    I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will have
    to be camping in a paddock near the house.
     
    steve, Oct 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. A

    Richard Guest

    steve wrote:

    > I use the same principle.
    >
    > My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable wireless
    > reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I can't
    > see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.
    >
    > I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will have
    > to be camping in a paddock near the house.


    Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your house
     
    Richard, Oct 5, 2005
    #3
  4. A

    Shane Guest

    On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:25:38 +1300, steve wrote:

    > A wrote:
    >
    >> However I live in the suburbs in a cul de sac and 802.11b has a range of
    >> about 33m on a good day. That means that the only people that can hack
    >> into my system would be my immediate neighbours or a serious hacker
    >> sitting outside my house with a laptop (unlikely).
    >>
    >> Have I got enough security or should I go buy a 802.11g wireless router
    >> that provides more security?

    >
    > I use the same principle.
    >
    > My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable wireless
    > reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I can't
    > see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.
    >
    > I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will have
    > to be camping in a paddock near the house.


    Watch for cows with horns that resemble antennae :)
    --
    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

    The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
     
    Shane, Oct 5, 2005
    #4
  5. A

    steve Guest

    Richard wrote:

    > steve wrote:
    >
    >> I use the same principle.
    >>
    >> My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable wireless
    >> reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I can't
    >> see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.
    >>
    >> I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will
    >> have to be camping in a paddock near the house.

    >
    > Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your house


    Good luck to them. :)
     
    steve, Oct 6, 2005
    #5
  6. "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Richard wrote:
    >
    > > steve wrote:
    > >
    > >> I use the same principle.
    > >>
    > >> My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable

    wireless
    > >> reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I

    can't
    > >> see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.
    > >>
    > >> I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will
    > >> have to be camping in a paddock near the house.

    > >
    > > Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your house

    >
    > Good luck to them. :)

    I think the essence of this is that the evildoers do not require luck;
    merely a high-gain antenna.
     
    ShuckItAnShee, Oct 6, 2005
    #6
  7. ShuckItAnShee wrote:
    >>>>reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I
    >>>> can't
    >>>>see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.


    >>>>I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will
    >>>>have to be camping in a paddock near the house.


    >>>Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your house


    >>Good luck to them. :)


    > I think the essence of this is that the evildoers do not require luck;
    > merely a high-gain antenna.


    heh, a wok and a USB wifi adaptor... a bit of duct tape, and all is done.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz - my site.
    http://www.dave.net.nz/csb/id37.htm <- Blog.
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Oct 6, 2005
    #7
  8. A

    shannon Guest

    ShuckItAnShee wrote:
    > "steve" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Richard wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>steve wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I use the same principle.
    >>>>
    >>>>My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable

    >
    > wireless
    >
    >>>>reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I

    >
    > can't
    >
    >>>>see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.
    >>>>
    >>>>I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will
    >>>>have to be camping in a paddock near the house.
    >>>
    >>>Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your house

    >>
    >>Good luck to them. :)

    >
    > I think the essence of this is that the evildoers do not require luck;
    > merely a high-gain antenna.
    >
    >

    And the application and aptitude to use a unix command line application
    to crack the encryption.
     
    shannon, Oct 7, 2005
    #8
  9. A

    Richard Guest

    shannon wrote:

    > And the application and aptitude to use a unix command line application
    > to crack the encryption.


    There is a knoppix iso around with all the tools and a web tutorial.
     
    Richard, Oct 7, 2005
    #9
  10. A

    shannon Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > ShuckItAnShee wrote:
    >
    >>>>> reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I
    >>>>> can't
    >>>>> see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.

    >
    >
    >>>>> I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will
    >>>>> have to be camping in a paddock near the house.

    >
    >
    >>>> Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your house

    >
    >
    >>> Good luck to them. :)

    >
    >
    >> I think the essence of this is that the evildoers do not require luck;
    >> merely a high-gain antenna.

    >
    >
    > heh, a wok and a USB wifi adaptor... a bit of duct tape, and all is done.
    >


    You might also need http://www.knoppix-std.org/

    Recent generation wifi chipsets since 2002 apparently don't have as weak
    WEP initialisation vectors (IVs)as back in the fashionable wardriving
    days so it could take a while.
    Don't worry steve, the guy down the road in the white van with the
    chinese kitchen tool out the window is a "white hat"
    Just call the men in white coats and they will take him away.
     
    shannon, Oct 7, 2005
    #10
  11. A

    shannon Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > shannon wrote:
    >
    >> And the application and aptitude to use a unix command line
    >> application to crack the encryption.

    >
    >
    > There is a knoppix iso around with all the tools and a web tutorial.


    ;) knoppix-std
    I wonder if it supports my USB wifi dongle, then I can actually go down
    the road with a wok skimmer and act like I have no life to see if it is
    really practical with current APs or just an urban legend.

    Have you actually cracked anyones WEP Richard ?

    Has anyone here cracked WEP on a recent generation AP ?
     
    shannon, Oct 7, 2005
    #11
  12. A

    steve Guest

    ShuckItAnShee wrote:

    >
    > "steve" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Richard wrote:
    >>
    >> > steve wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> I use the same principle.
    >> >>
    >> >> My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable

    > wireless
    >> >> reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I

    > can't
    >> >> see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.
    >> >>
    >> >> I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will
    >> >> have to be camping in a paddock near the house.
    >> >
    >> > Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your house

    >>
    >> Good luck to them. :)

    > I think the essence of this is that the evildoers do not require luck;
    > merely a high-gain antenna.


    .....and the desire and a fair bit of time (days / weeks) and computing power
    to crack the encryption.

    Honestly....I have nothing on any PC in the house that would compromise me
    in any way or be a loss if someone copied it.

    They would find that out in due course.

    Why build a castle around a quiet empty paddock?

    Now....a pile of gold - sure.
     
    steve, Oct 7, 2005
    #12
  13. A

    steve Guest

    shannon wrote:

    > Have you actually cracked anyones WEP Richard ?
    >
    > Has anyone here cracked WEP on a recent generation AP ?


    Now there you go - spoiling things by raising the spectre of ACTUAL risk
    versus imagined risk.
     
    steve, Oct 7, 2005
    #13
  14. steve wrote:
    > shannon wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Have you actually cracked anyones WEP Richard ?
    >>
    >>Has anyone here cracked WEP on a recent generation AP ?

    >
    >
    > Now there you go - spoiling things by raising the spectre of ACTUAL risk
    > versus imagined risk.


    I know that when I go wardriving... err, I mean if I were to go
    wardriving, I dont... I mean I wouldn't bother with the wep ones as
    there are... I mean would imagine that there'd be plenty of unsecured
    ones sitting around.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz - my site.
    http://www.dave.net.nz/csb/id37.htm <- Blog.
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Oct 7, 2005
    #14
  15. A

    Shane Guest

    On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:35:43 +1300, steve wrote:

    > shannon wrote:
    >
    >> Have you actually cracked anyones WEP Richard ?
    >>
    >> Has anyone here cracked WEP on a recent generation AP ?

    >
    > Now there you go - spoiling things by raising the spectre of ACTUAL risk
    > versus imagined risk.


    Hmm the problem there though is..
    Could anyone here please risk their current/future employment and tell
    everybody (archived for some years to come) that you have broken the law
    recently


    --
    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

    The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
     
    Shane, Oct 7, 2005
    #15
  16. A

    Richard Guest

    shannon wrote:
    > Richard wrote:
    >
    >> shannon wrote:
    >>
    >>> And the application and aptitude to use a unix command line
    >>> application to crack the encryption.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> There is a knoppix iso around with all the tools and a web tutorial.

    >
    >
    > ;) knoppix-std
    > I wonder if it supports my USB wifi dongle, then I can actually go down
    > the road with a wok skimmer and act like I have no life to see if it is
    > really practical with current APs or just an urban legend.
    >
    > Have you actually cracked anyones WEP Richard ?
    >
    > Has anyone here cracked WEP on a recent generation AP ?


    I have watched someone do it to a wlan located about 750 metres away with a 24dB
    dish. I have no idea what generation hardware it was, but must have being recent
    since it supported 54 meg
     
    Richard, Oct 7, 2005
    #16
  17. A

    Shane Guest

    On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:53:49 +1300, Shane wrote:

    > On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:35:43 +1300, steve wrote:
    >
    >> shannon wrote:
    >>
    >>> Have you actually cracked anyones WEP Richard ?
    >>>
    >>> Has anyone here cracked WEP on a recent generation AP ?

    >>
    >> Now there you go - spoiling things by raising the spectre of ACTUAL risk
    >> versus imagined risk.

    >
    > Hmm the problem there though is..
    > Could anyone here please risk their current/future employment and tell
    > everybody (archived for some years to come) that you have broken the law
    > recently


    er...
    with the exception of people cracking their own wep encryption.

    --
    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

    The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
     
    Shane, Oct 7, 2005
    #17
  18. A

    Fishb8 Guest

    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > ShuckItAnShee wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "steve" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Richard wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > steve wrote:
    >>> >
    >>> >> I use the same principle.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> My house is about 50 metres from the road. I've never had usable

    >> wireless
    >>> >> reception at that distance, given my house has metal cladding and I

    >> can't
    >>> >> see the AP at very short distances if the cladding is in the way.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> I use 64-bit WEP encryption.....and anyone wanting to break that will
    >>> >> have to be camping in a paddock near the house.
    >>> >
    >>> > Or have a 24dB grid or even a cantenna at some distance from your
    >>> > house
    >>>
    >>> Good luck to them. :)

    >> I think the essence of this is that the evildoers do not require luck;
    >> merely a high-gain antenna.

    >
    > ....and the desire and a fair bit of time (days / weeks) and computing
    > power
    > to crack the encryption.
    >
    > Honestly....I have nothing on any PC in the house that would compromise me
    > in any way or be a loss if someone copied it.
    >
    > They would find that out in due course.
    >
    > Why build a castle around a quiet empty paddock?
    >
    > Now....a pile of gold - sure.
    >

    I'm not defending my son or his flatmates and I have no idea how it's done
    but they live in London and have hacked into a wifi from someone close by.
    They've got the log-on and password and can tell when the owner is also
    using his link so they can get off-line. Can't be too hard.
     
    Fishb8, Oct 7, 2005
    #18
  19. A

    shannon Guest

    Fishb8 wrote:

    >>

    > I'm not defending my son or his flatmates and I have no idea how it's done
    > but they live in London and have hacked into a wifi from someone close by.
    > They've got the log-on and password and can tell when the owner is also
    > using his link so they can get off-line. Can't be too hard.


    I doubt whether they would need a username / password or be able to tell
    when he is using his AP, it doesn't work like that, whether you have to
    crack the WEP key or not.
    There are a lot of open APs around, some people just share the love.
    I use a wireless pda around town and for email use $20 worth of cafenet will
    probably last me a year.
     
    shannon, Oct 7, 2005
    #19
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