Wireless LAN under W2k?

Discussion in 'Wireless Networking' started by Mtty, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. Mtty

    Mtty Guest

    Hi everybody. I'm having a little difficulty setting up a wireless
    network and am wondering if anybody might be able to point out what
    I'm doing wrong, or possible workarounds.

    I have a server at work, currently with this configuration - ADSL
    Internet, going into one ethernet card on a system running Windows 2k
    server, and a second ethernet card which I then run out to a 20 port
    hub. Basically :

    INTERNET ---> SERVER ---> 20 PORT HUB

    Everybody plugging into the hub has access to the network domain on
    the server, as well as the Internet. My boss came to me yesterday and
    asked me to put a wireless router in, so it would be :

    INTERNET ---> SERVER ---> WIRELESS ROUTER

    It's a Linksys WRT54G I believe. When I plug the router into the 2nd
    ethernet port, it gets an IP address just fine from the DHCP server
    running on the server. I am able to wirelessly connect to the router
    on a laptop I have with no problem, getting an IP address from the
    router's internal DHCP server. But there doesn't seem to be any
    communication coming out of the router. I can ping the router from
    the laptop with no problem, but not the server. From the server, I
    can ping the router but of course not the connected laptop. The
    communication stops there at the router. I have tried with the
    router's DHCP server both on and off, as well as giving the wireless
    router a static IP. I suspect the problem is some sort of routing
    issue, but I'm not sure if it's on the server I need to make the
    change, or the router itself.

    I do realize I could probably put the router inbetween the Internet
    connection and the server and avoid most of these problems, but I
    would prefer that the communication goes through the server and not
    directly out to the Internet (file sharing is disabled on the incoming
    ethernet port, but enabled on the LAN port). Is this a reasonable
    expectation? Or am I trying to do something completely stupid here?
    Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

    And I am *not* a certified MCSE professional, so please take that into
    consideration if you are going to try to give me any instructions on
    doing any serious router or server settings :)

    Mtty
    Mtty, Nov 26, 2005
    #1
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  2. In news:,
    Mtty <> typed:
    > Hi everybody. I'm having a little difficulty setting up a wireless
    > network and am wondering if anybody might be able to point out what
    > I'm doing wrong, or possible workarounds.
    >
    > I have a server at work, currently with this configuration - ADSL
    > Internet, going into one ethernet card on a system running Windows 2k
    > server, and a second ethernet card which I then run out to a 20 port
    > hub. Basically :
    >
    > INTERNET ---> SERVER ---> 20 PORT HUB


    I wouldn't use this config - it's dangerous and I think a bit clumsy. NAT
    alone is not enough, and even a simple consumer-grade router/firewall would
    help protect your network - they're inexpensive enough.
    >
    > Everybody plugging into the hub has access to the network domain on
    > the server, as well as the Internet. My boss came to me yesterday and
    > asked me to put a wireless router in, so it would be :
    >
    > INTERNET ---> SERVER ---> WIRELESS ROUTER
    >
    > It's a Linksys WRT54G I believe. When I plug the router into the 2nd
    > ethernet port, it gets an IP address just fine from the DHCP server
    > running on the server. I am able to wirelessly connect to the router
    > on a laptop I have with no problem, getting an IP address from the
    > router's internal DHCP server. But there doesn't seem to be any
    > communication coming out of the router. I can ping the router from
    > the laptop with no problem, but not the server. From the server, I
    > can ping the router but of course not the connected laptop. The
    > communication stops there at the router. I have tried with the
    > router's DHCP server both on and off, as well as giving the wireless
    > router a static IP. I suspect the problem is some sort of routing
    > issue, but I'm not sure if it's on the server I need to make the
    > change, or the router itself.
    >
    > I do realize I could probably put the router inbetween the Internet
    > connection and the server and avoid most of these problems, but I
    > would prefer that the communication goes through the server and not
    > directly out to the Internet


    Why? Unless you're running some kind of proxy server on this box, you aren't
    really gaining anything by this config.

    > (file sharing is disabled on the incoming
    > ethernet port, but enabled on the LAN port). Is this a reasonable
    > expectation? Or am I trying to do something completely stupid here?
    > Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated!


    I don't like turning a Windows box with other roles into anything
    approaching a router, myself. I would probably invest in a better quality
    firewall (Sonicwall, Watchguard, Pix, whatnot) and stick it between your
    Internet modem and network. Then get a wireless *access point* (not a
    router) that can handle at least WPA for security, and plug it into the hub
    (although a switch would be a lot better, and they're inexpensive these days
    too).
    >
    > And I am *not* a certified MCSE professional, so please take that into
    > consideration if you are going to try to give me any instructions on
    > doing any serious router or server settings :)
    >
    > Mtty
    Lanwench [MVP - Exchange], Nov 26, 2005
    #2
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  3. Mtty

    Mtty Guest

    >alone is not enough, and even a simple consumer-grade router/firewall would
    >help protect your network - they're inexpensive enough.


    I only inherited this part of the job as I was the only one there who
    seemed to have a clue about networking (or computers in general for
    that matter). My actual job at the company is something completely
    unrelated. It's one of those "We'd appreciate it if you could do
    this, but don't expect to get paid any more for doing it" kinds of
    things. When I first started at this company four years ago, there
    were roughly 35 machines, and two of them were running anti-virus
    software... that was two years out of date. So needless to say, I had
    problems with things there right from the beginning ("Windows Update?
    What's that?"). Money is not spent on hardware, until there's a
    problem (and believe me, there have been some big ones). But this
    router thing is a different issue that has come up, and I am just
    looking for the best way to do it.

    I actually did manage to convince them to let me buy a router the
    other day to put in between the 'Net and the servers (we have 2), I
    just haven't gotten around to installing it yet.


    >Why? Unless you're running some kind of proxy server on this box, you aren't
    >really gaining anything by this config.


    Basically this machine is going to be used for finances, and at a
    different location than it is at now. I'm just setting it up now for
    us to do some training with the new accounting software that the
    company is going to be using soon. This won't be a permanent
    installation, at least not in this config.

    When my boss first asked me to do this, I didn't think it was going to
    be all that difficult. But as I was setting things up, I began to
    think that I would have some problems getting the router to act just
    as a hub. I was speaking to someone else about it, and he also
    thought that it was probably trying to make it work in a way it wasn't
    intended. But I decided I'd give it a try to see if it could be done
    and if not, I'd do some searching on the 'Net for a solution (or just
    toast the idea completely)


    >Internet modem and network. Then get a wireless *access point* (not a
    >router) that can handle at least WPA for security, and plug it into the hub


    Yeah, I never really did think a router was the best thing for this
    setup, I just thought I might be able to get it to work at least
    temporarily. Worse comes to worse, I'll just plug the secondary
    computer into the hub and say screw it. As I said, it's not the final
    setup, and once it's out of our office it's someone else's
    responsibility to look after, not mine :) I will have a look into
    wireless 'access points', and suggest those to my boss as the proper
    solution to this if he insists on a wireless setup. Thanks for the
    reply Lanwrench!

    Mtty
    Mtty, Nov 27, 2005
    #3
  4. Mtty

    Malke Guest

    (PeteCresswell) wrote:

    > Per Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]:
    >> Then get a wireless *access point* (not a
    >>router)

    >
    > This tangential, but do you know if a LinkSys Access Point/Router can
    > be config 'd somehow so that it's only an access point?
    >
    > I was unaware of the distinction when I bought this thing and already
    > have a firewall/router - and spent quite a few man hours trying to
    > chain the new device
    > to the existing router. Finally gave up and just use the new box as
    > both a router and an access point - but I'd still like to revert to
    > the firewall/router and hang the new device on it as just an access
    > point.


    Yes. There are instructions on Linksys' support site on how to use a
    router as a wireless access point. I know it works because I did this
    for a client who already had a router. Here's the link:

    http://tinyurl.com/7tv9p

    Malke
    --
    MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
    Elephant Boy Computers
    www.elephantboycomputers.com
    "Don't Panic"
    Malke, Nov 27, 2005
    #4
  5. Mtty

    Mike Roberts Guest

    why dont you just use the linksys router you bought, install it between
    your adsl modem and your server, (make sure you set it up with wpa
    security) and that way you can take advantage of the NAT properties for
    security for all of the computers behind it on the lan. and you can
    continue to use the existing wired network you already have. and you
    will have added an access point. just a sugestion.
    Mike Roberts, Nov 27, 2005
    #5
  6. Per Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]:
    > Then get a wireless *access point* (not a
    >router)


    This tangential, but do you know if a LinkSys Access Point/Router can be config
    'd somehow so that it's only an access point?

    I was unaware of the distinction when I bought this thing and already have a
    firewall/router - and spent quite a few man hours trying to chain the new device
    to the existing router. Finally gave up and just use the new box as both a
    router and an access point - but I'd still like to revert to the firewall/router
    and hang the new device on it as just an access point.
    --
    PeteCresswell
    (PeteCresswell), Nov 27, 2005
    #6
  7. Per Mike Roberts:
    >why dont you just use the linksys router you bought, install it between
    >your adsl modem and your server, (make sure you set it up with wpa
    >security)


    Thats what I am doing at this moment - unable to make Plan B work...

    I know next to nothing about this stuff, but it just seemed like a good idea to
    have the access point on the other side of my firewall from the PC.

    Seems like with that config if somebody comes up with a usable crack for a
    63-byte WPA passphrase, the PC isn't exposed - albeit I'm still exposed to the
    wrath of my IP if/when somebody pumps a load of spam up the connection.
    --
    PeteCresswell
    (PeteCresswell), Nov 27, 2005
    #7
  8. Mtty

    Mike Roberts Guest

    (PeteCresswell) wrote:
    > Per Mike Roberts:
    >
    >>why dont you just use the linksys router you bought, install it between
    >>your adsl modem and your server, (make sure you set it up with wpa
    >>security)

    >
    >
    > Thats what I am doing at this moment - unable to make Plan B work...
    >
    > I know next to nothing about this stuff, but it just seemed like a good idea to
    > have the access point on the other side of my firewall from the PC.
    >
    > Seems like with that config if somebody comes up with a usable crack for a
    > 63-byte WPA passphrase, the PC isn't exposed - albeit I'm still exposed to the
    > wrath of my IP if/when somebody pumps a load of spam up the connection.


    go and check out this site. ( http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm ) it is
    hosted by one of the leading internet security guys, steve gibson.
    listen to episodes #11, #13 and part of #14. he will set your mind at
    ease on wpa passphrase vounrability.
    and as i said before, you will be better off with the router in front of
    the LAN to take advantage of its own security properties. read this
    article and you will see what i mean. http://www.grc.com/nat/nat.htm

    One of the key benefits of NAT routers (and the main reason for their
    purchase by residential and small office users) is that the router
    appears to the Internet as a single machine with a single IP address.
    This effectively masks the fact that many computers on the LAN side of
    the router may be simultaneously sharing that single IP.
    Mike Roberts, Nov 27, 2005
    #8
  9. Mtty

    Mike Roberts Guest


    > I think my non-WiFi LinkSys BEFSX41 is a NAT router - at least it has an NAT
    > Enable/Disable option on the Setup|Advanced Routing page.


    Network Address Translation is how home Cable/DSL routers work, there
    is no turning on and off.
    Mike Roberts, Nov 28, 2005
    #9
  10. Per Mike Roberts:
    >go and check out this site. ( http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm ) it is
    >hosted by one of the leading internet security guys, steve gibson.
    >listen to episodes #11, #13 and part of #14. he will set your mind at
    >ease on wpa passphrase vounrability.


    Jeff Duntemann'a "Wi-Fi Guide 2nd Edition" already did a pretty good job of that
    for me, but I'm thinking 5 years down the pike...when PCs will be running
    who-knows-how-many MIPs and all those really-smart-but-a-little-perverted people
    out there have had some time to study the "interesting packets" phenom vis-a-vis
    WPA.... and I've become so senile that I don't even remember that I *have* a
    router/firewall.


    >and as i said before, you will be better off with the router in front of
    > the LAN to take advantage of its own security properties. read this
    >article and you will see what i mean. http://www.grc.com/nat/nat.htm


    That's a nicely-written page. Thanks.

    I think my non-WiFi LinkSys BEFSX41 is a NAT router - at least it has an NAT
    Enable/Disable option on the Setup|Advanced Routing page.

    OTOH, I don't see anything specific on the WireLess LinkSys WRT54G's setup pages
    - which may reaffirm my notion to put the BEF between the PC and the DSL modem
    and hang the WRT off to the aide. OTOOH the WRT is touted as also having
    "FireWall" capability...
    --
    PeteCresswell
    (PeteCresswell), Nov 28, 2005
    #10
  11. (PeteCresswell), Nov 28, 2005
    #11
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