Windows XP and Mac OS-X put "stuff" on my card

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bruce Patis, Oct 8, 2004.

  1. Bruce Patis

    Bruce Patis Guest

    There have been many recent threads about memory cards, but I haven't
    seen any that mentioned this specific item.

    Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
    in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
    my computers, so here is how it happened.

    I was using my Oly C-4000 at a friend's house who uses Windows XP.
    She wanted copies of the pictures I had just taken, so I removed the
    128MB SM card from the camera and placed it in a card reader connected
    via USB cable to her computer. She then selected the image files on
    the card that she wanted and copied them to the hard drive.
    Everything was done with My Computer in XP.

    I'm not a Windows expert, but it looked like it was a standard copying
    operation. No message appeared other than the usual animated sheet of
    paper flying from the card reader to the HD. When that procedure was
    finished, I removed the card from the reader and placed it back in the
    camera.

    I took more pictures afterward. The camera worked fine and the
    previous images were still available to view in the camera. When I
    got home and was transferring the new images to my own computer, I
    noticed that there was now an additional directory and a few small
    files that were not graphic images. Even though they did not seem to
    affect the camera operation, I removed them on general principles.

    A month later, I visited a different friend who has a new iMac running
    OS-X. We did the same thing, copying selected files from my SM card
    to his computer via an external USB card reader. I also tried leaving
    the card in the camera and connecting the Oly USB cable from the
    camera to his computer. In both cases, the card appeared properly as
    a drive letter.

    Afterward, everything worked just like it did in my previous
    experience with Windows XP. When I returned home and read the card
    with my own computer, there was similar additional stuff on it. I
    again deleted it, leaving only the image files in the directory tree
    that the C-4000 creates. BTW, I did not reformat the card, nor need
    to. DOS has always been very reliable for editing files and
    directories on camera cards. Also, as expected with non-camera files,
    the added items could neither be viewed nor deleted with the camera.

    When any type of file is added to a camera card, it reduces the space
    available for camera images. But since the additional stuff totalled
    only a few kB, that was not a problem. Also, when I examined the
    mysterious file(s), it looked like some kind of database index, not an
    executable or anything suspicious. I think I read somewhere that XP
    has a "feature" which makes it easier to view, sort, or catalog
    images. If so, I'm sure Microsoft copied it from Apple.

    I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
    Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
    without asking permission. In any case, I'm curious whether there is
    an option that I could tell my friends about which turns off that
    "feature".

    Bruce

    P.S. This might be the cause of some of the more mysterious or
    "mystical" problems that other users are having. It also might be why
    some people feel that routine reformatting does improve performance.
     
    Bruce Patis, Oct 8, 2004
    #1
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  2. Bruce Patis

    Tetractys Guest

    Bruce Patis wrote:

    > ... a friend's house who uses Windows XP....
    > I placed [the card] in a card reader ....
    > She then selected the image files on the card
    > that she wanted and copied them to the hard
    > drive.... when I examined the mysterious file(s),
    > it looked like some kind of database index ....


    That's the Thumbnail Database Index, or
    THUMBS.DB, created by Windows XP
    to shorten the lag next time you access the
    directory with Thumbnail View.

    > I don't want Bill Gates ... putting "stuff"
    > in my computer .... I'm curious whether
    > there is an option ... which turns off that
    > "feature".


    Yes. In Windows Explorer, go to:
    Tools, Folder Options, View, Advanced
    and check the "Do Not Cache Thumbnails"
    box.

    You will also find PSPBRWSE.DB files
    created by Paint Shop Pro, and other
    database files to store thumbnail info from
    a variety of multimedia programs like ACD
    See, Photoshop, et alia. These are all created
    on your storage media if you access them in
    this way, just like on your hard drive. Most
    of these apps have similar toggles.

    They serve a purpose, of course. If you
    have large numbers of image files, it can take
    a lo-o-ong time for those thumbnails to
    generate, especially if you use archival TIFFs.
     
    Tetractys, Oct 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. Bruce Patis

    Hunt Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    >
    >Bruce Patis wrote:
    >
    >> ... a friend's house who uses Windows XP....
    >> I placed [the card] in a card reader ....
    >> She then selected the image files on the card
    >> that she wanted and copied them to the hard
    >> drive.... when I examined the mysterious file(s),
    >> it looked like some kind of database index ....

    >
    >That's the Thumbnail Database Index, or
    >THUMBS.DB, created by Windows XP
    >to shorten the lag next time you access the
    >directory with Thumbnail View.
    >
    >> I don't want Bill Gates ... putting "stuff"
    >> in my computer .... I'm curious whether
    >> there is an option ... which turns off that
    >> "feature".

    >
    >Yes. In Windows Explorer, go to:
    >Tools, Folder Options, View, Advanced
    >and check the "Do Not Cache Thumbnails"
    >box.
    >
    >You will also find PSPBRWSE.DB files
    >created by Paint Shop Pro, and other
    >database files to store thumbnail info from
    >a variety of multimedia programs like ACD
    >See, Photoshop, et alia. These are all created
    >on your storage media if you access them in
    >this way, just like on your hard drive. Most
    >of these apps have similar toggles.
    >
    >They serve a purpose, of course. If you
    >have large numbers of image files, it can take
    >a lo-o-ong time for those thumbnails to
    >generate, especially if you use archival TIFFs.


    Correct. These files are totally benign, and other than taking up space on the
    card will have not effect on its operation, only the speed with which THOSE
    images that were thumbnailed, are viewed, if you should place the card into an
    XP, or OS-X computer. Re-formatting in your camera will delete them
    completely. Also Tetractys, I didn't know about the Do Not Cache Thumbs,
    thanks.

    Hunt
     
    Hunt, Oct 8, 2004
    #3
  4. >
    > I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
    > Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
    > without asking permission. In any case, I'm curious whether there is
    > an option that I could tell my friends about which turns off that
    > "feature".
    >


    I think you're probably just going to give yourself ulcers if you stress
    too much about this sort of thing. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs aren't
    trying to spy on you or anything. I'm not trying to be insulting or
    anyting, but in general you can probably assume that both of the OS's
    are putting stuff there to make things faster and easier for them next
    time you put the card in the computer. But as most people in the other
    threads have said it's not a bad idea to re-format the card to clear it
    when you put it back in the camera. It'll remove any unnessessary files.
    And before anyone says, yes I know that re-format doesn't *ACTUALLY*
    remove anything, but for all intents and purposes the files are gone and
    the space is free to be used for images, rather than redundant thumbnail
    cache files.
     
    Eugene O'Brien, Oct 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Bruce Patis

    Tetractys Guest

    Hunt wrote:

    > Also Tetractys, I didn't know about
    > the Do Not Cache Thumbs, thanks.


    Cheers, mate.
     
    Tetractys, Oct 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Bruce Patis

    Big Bill Guest

    On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
    <> wrote:

    >There have been many recent threads about memory cards, but I haven't
    >seen any that mentioned this specific item.
    >
    >Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
    >in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
    >my computers, so here is how it happened.
    >
    >I was using my Oly C-4000 at a friend's house who uses Windows XP.
    >She wanted copies of the pictures I had just taken, so I removed the
    >128MB SM card from the camera and placed it in a card reader connected
    >via USB cable to her computer. She then selected the image files on
    >the card that she wanted and copied them to the hard drive.
    >Everything was done with My Computer in XP.
    >
    >I'm not a Windows expert, but it looked like it was a standard copying
    >operation. No message appeared other than the usual animated sheet of
    >paper flying from the card reader to the HD. When that procedure was
    >finished, I removed the card from the reader and placed it back in the
    >camera.
    >
    >I took more pictures afterward. The camera worked fine and the
    >previous images were still available to view in the camera. When I
    >got home and was transferring the new images to my own computer, I
    >noticed that there was now an additional directory and a few small
    >files that were not graphic images. Even though they did not seem to
    >affect the camera operation, I removed them on general principles.
    >
    >A month later, I visited a different friend who has a new iMac running
    >OS-X. We did the same thing, copying selected files from my SM card
    >to his computer via an external USB card reader. I also tried leaving
    >the card in the camera and connecting the Oly USB cable from the
    >camera to his computer. In both cases, the card appeared properly as
    >a drive letter.
    >
    >Afterward, everything worked just like it did in my previous
    >experience with Windows XP. When I returned home and read the card
    >with my own computer, there was similar additional stuff on it. I
    >again deleted it, leaving only the image files in the directory tree
    >that the C-4000 creates. BTW, I did not reformat the card, nor need
    >to. DOS has always been very reliable for editing files and
    >directories on camera cards. Also, as expected with non-camera files,
    >the added items could neither be viewed nor deleted with the camera.
    >
    >When any type of file is added to a camera card, it reduces the space
    >available for camera images. But since the additional stuff totalled
    >only a few kB, that was not a problem. Also, when I examined the
    >mysterious file(s), it looked like some kind of database index, not an
    >executable or anything suspicious. I think I read somewhere that XP
    >has a "feature" which makes it easier to view, sort, or catalog
    >images. If so, I'm sure Microsoft copied it from Apple.
    >
    >I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
    >Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
    >without asking permission. In any case, I'm curious whether there is
    >an option that I could tell my friends about which turns off that
    >"feature".
    >
    >Bruce
    >
    >P.S. This might be the cause of some of the more mysterious or
    >"mystical" problems that other users are having. It also might be why
    >some people feel that routine reformatting does improve performance.
    >

    It sounds like there was some sort of software being used other than
    Windows Explorer (I know too little about the Mac to address that).
    I can use Windows Explorer in XP to copy files from my card to my hard
    drive with no added files put on the card. However, if other software
    is used, it *might* be putting an index file on the card; if so, it
    should be (as you reported) a very small file.

    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
    Big Bill, Oct 8, 2004
    #6
  7. On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
    <> wrote:

    >There have been many recent threads about memory cards, but I haven't
    >seen any that mentioned this specific item.
    >
    >Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
    >in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
    >my computers, so here is how it happened.
    >
    >I was using my Oly C-4000 at a friend's house who uses Windows XP.
    >She wanted copies of the pictures I had just taken, so I removed the
    >128MB SM card from the camera and placed it in a card reader connected
    >via USB cable to her computer. She then selected the image files on
    >the card that she wanted and copied them to the hard drive.
    >Everything was done with My Computer in XP.
    >
    >I'm not a Windows expert, but it looked like it was a standard copying
    >operation. No message appeared other than the usual animated sheet of
    >paper flying from the card reader to the HD. When that procedure was
    >finished, I removed the card from the reader and placed it back in the
    >camera.
    >


    It was not the copy operation that added the files. It was viewing
    the files on the card/drive as thumbnails that did it.

    If you use photoshop CS to view them that won't happen, but it's a
    whole lot easier to just leave them as "details", copy everything and
    delete the ones not wanted.

    Any time you view the files as thumbnails Windows Explorer will create
    a thumbnail directory and cache the thumbnails unless it's told not to
    do so.

    More than likely the Apple system did something similar.
    I think I read somewhere that XP

    >has a "feature" which makes it easier to view, sort, or catalog
    >images. If so, I'm sure Microsoft copied it from Apple.
    >

    Who copied it from Xerox who developed the "windows" look and feel.


    >I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
    >Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
    >without asking permission.


    They did ask although most users don't recognize the choice. When
    users understand the operating systems they find out those OSs will
    place these files on the drive when the files are viewed as
    thumbnails.


    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com
     
    Roger Halstead, Oct 9, 2004
    #7
  8. On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:03:35 -0700, Big Bill <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
    ><> wrote:
    >

    <snip>
    >>

    >It sounds like there was some sort of software being used other than
    >Windows Explorer (I know too little about the Mac to address that).
    >I can use Windows Explorer in XP to copy files from my card to my hard
    >drive with no added files put on the card. However, if other software
    >is used, it *might* be putting an index file on the card; if so, it
    >should be (as you reported) a very small file.
    >

    Windows Explorer does it when the files are viewd as thumbnails while
    still on the CF card.

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com
    >Bill Funk
    >Change "g" to "a"
     
    Roger Halstead, Oct 9, 2004
    #8
  9. Bruce Patis

    Bruce Patis Guest

    On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
    <> wrote:

    >Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
    >in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
    >my computers, so here is how it happened...



    Thanks, everyone, for all the info. Now I know that:

    1. I didn't imagine it.<grin>
    2. It should be reasonably safe to view or copy images from my camera
    cards with a computer running those OS's.
    3. Things will be more predictable if I operate the computer myself.
    I was present the first time. However, since both owners also have
    digicams, I just told them to use their normal procedure to view and
    copy from a memory card.
    4. If desired, there are options or procedures (at least in XP) to
    disable or avoid writing anything to the card.

    In any case, I'll probably leave things as is. The owners are used to
    just clicking (or double-clicking) on files to view them, and would be
    overly concerned if that no longer worked the same way. Also, neither
    knew that any additional items were put on their camera cards because
    it never affected their own camera's operation. Since now I know that
    the additional "stuff" is definitely not harmful, I won't confuse them
    by even mentioning it.

    Regarding Microsoft copying things from Apple, I agree that all
    computer companies copy ideas from their predecessors. Then the
    copier introduces it as a great new feature in the next version of
    their product. I just feel that Microsoft does that more often.

    Bruce
     
    Bruce Patis, Oct 9, 2004
    #9
  10. Bruce Patis

    Big Bill Guest

    On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 00:49:05 GMT, Roger Halstead
    <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:03:35 -0700, Big Bill <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
    >><> wrote:
    >>

    ><snip>
    >>>

    >>It sounds like there was some sort of software being used other than
    >>Windows Explorer (I know too little about the Mac to address that).
    >>I can use Windows Explorer in XP to copy files from my card to my hard
    >>drive with no added files put on the card. However, if other software
    >>is used, it *might* be putting an index file on the card; if so, it
    >>should be (as you reported) a very small file.
    >>

    >Windows Explorer does it when the files are viewd as thumbnails while
    >still on the CF card.


    By golly, it does!
    I never view that way; I just copy the files to a folder immediately.
    Viewing as thumbnails is so slow! Im retired, and don't have the time!
    :)

    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
    Big Bill, Oct 9, 2004
    #10
  11. Big Bill <> wrote in
    news::

    > By golly, it does!
    > I never view that way; I just copy the files to a folder immediately.
    > Viewing as thumbnails is so slow! Im retired, and don't have the time!
    > :)
    >


    It creates the thumbnails even if you don't view the thumbnails.
    You just have to open the folder where the pictures are.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 9, 2004
    #11
  12. Bruce Patis

    Tetractys Guest

    Roland Karlsson wrote:

    > It creates the thumbnails even
    > if you don't view the thumbnails.
    > You just have to open the folder
    > where the pictures are.


    If by "it" you mean Windows XP,
    that's true only if you have Thumbnails
    View chosen as your folder default,
    and have the Do Not Cache checkbox
    deselected.

    If you choose any other view than
    Thumbnails or Slideshow, or have
    the DNC checkbox selected, the
    Thumbs.db file will not be created.
     
    Tetractys, Oct 9, 2004
    #12
  13. On 9 Oct 2004 19:37:59 GMT, Roland Karlsson
    <> wrote:

    >Big Bill <> wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >> By golly, it does!
    >> I never view that way; I just copy the files to a folder immediately.
    >> Viewing as thumbnails is so slow! Im retired, and don't have the time!
    >> :)
    >>

    >
    >It creates the thumbnails even if you don't view the thumbnails.
    >You just have to open the folder where the pictures are.


    No it does not.
    IF XP is set to anything other than thumbnails it does not create
    them, nor does it create the "thumbs" directory. It *requires* that
    the "view as thumbnails" be set. Unless your copy of XP is far
    different than the four copies I have running here.

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com

    >
    >
    >/Roland
     
    Roger Halstead, Oct 10, 2004
    #13
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