Windows Vista

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by E. Scrooge, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. E. Scrooge

    E. Scrooge Guest

    Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released and
    people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it on
    his old computer.

    It should be promoted better than insinuating that it's better because all
    prevous versions of Windows including XP are rubbish compared to Vista.
    That says bugger all about it's actual qualities.
    If it's real good it should be it's own unique features that make it a good
    step forward. When people have been using it for about 6 months with all
    kinds of programs running on it, will be when the real proof about how good
    it is will be known.
    By then it's bound to have damn sight better descriptions than the childish
    immature one "that it doesn't suck" - which means about as much as Roger's
    "crap" reports.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Mar 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. E. Scrooge

    Peter Guest

    *sling wrote:

    > Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    > and
    > people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    > should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it on
    > his old computer.
    >

    The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going to
    happen?

    Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and similar
    users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be able
    to interwork with their files.

    The message IMO is becoming quite clear, businesses and Government have a
    moral obligation not to migrate to any 'new' system that 'breaks' generally
    accepted interoperability.
     
    Peter, Mar 1, 2006
    #2
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  3. E. Scrooge

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > *sling wrote:
    >
    >> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    >> and
    >> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    >> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it on
    >> his old computer.
    >>

    > The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    > associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    > versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going to
    > happen?
    >
    > Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    > similar
    > users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    > products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be able
    > to interwork with their files.
    >
    > The message IMO is becoming quite clear, businesses and Government have a
    > moral obligation not to migrate to any 'new' system that 'breaks'
    > generally
    > accepted interoperability.


    It's strange all right that there's no compatibility what so ever between
    different versions of Microsoft Office and Works.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Mar 1, 2006
    #3
  4. E. Scrooge

    SchoolTech Guest

    E. Scrooge wrote:
    > Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released and
    > people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    > should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it on
    > his old computer.
    >
    > It should be promoted better than insinuating that it's better because all
    > prevous versions of Windows including XP are rubbish compared to Vista.
    > That says bugger all about it's actual qualities.
    > If it's real good it should be it's own unique features that make it a good
    > step forward. When people have been using it for about 6 months with all
    > kinds of programs running on it, will be when the real proof about how good
    > it is will be known.
    > By then it's bound to have damn sight better descriptions than the childish
    > immature one "that it doesn't suck" - which means about as much as Roger's
    > "crap" reports.


    Whatever Scrooge...do you think this kind of inanity contributes a lot
    to nz.comp
     
    SchoolTech, Mar 2, 2006
    #4
  5. E. Scrooge

    thing2 Guest

    SchoolTech wrote:
    > E. Scrooge wrote:
    >
    >> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's
    >> released and people mostly with new computers start using it. Since
    >> the new computer should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny
    >> trying to install it on his old computer.
    >>
    >> It should be promoted better than insinuating that it's better because
    >> all prevous versions of Windows including XP are rubbish compared to
    >> Vista. That says bugger all about it's actual qualities.
    >> If it's real good it should be it's own unique features that make it a
    >> good step forward. When people have been using it for about 6 months
    >> with all kinds of programs running on it, will be when the real proof
    >> about how good it is will be known.
    >> By then it's bound to have damn sight better descriptions than the
    >> childish immature one "that it doesn't suck" - which means about as
    >> much as Roger's "crap" reports.

    >
    >
    > Whatever Scrooge...do you think this kind of inanity contributes a lot
    > to nz.comp


    More than your gormless reports anyway....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing2, Mar 2, 2006
    #5
  6. E. Scrooge

    SchoolTech Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > *sling wrote:
    >
    >> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    >> and
    >> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    >> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it on
    >> his old computer.
    >>

    > The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    > associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    > versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going to
    > happen?


    Oh, I guess some people might have to start paying to use office software.

    >
    > Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and similar
    > users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    > products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be able
    > to interwork with their files.


    Why should they?
    If you're on Windows you can buy Office.
     
    SchoolTech, Mar 2, 2006
    #6
  7. E. Scrooge

    SchoolTech Guest

    E. Scrooge wrote:
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> *sling wrote:
    >>
    >>> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    >>> and
    >>> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    >>> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it on
    >>> his old computer.
    >>>

    >> The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    >> associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    >> versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going to
    >> happen?
    >>
    >> Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >> similar
    >> users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    >> products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be able
    >> to interwork with their files.
    >>
    >> The message IMO is becoming quite clear, businesses and Government have a
    >> moral obligation not to migrate to any 'new' system that 'breaks'
    >> generally
    >> accepted interoperability.

    >
    > It's strange all right that there's no compatibility what so ever between
    > different versions of Microsoft Office and Works.


    Works is probably a buy-in. The Mac version of Works was produced by a
    company other than Microsoft.

    But you can save a Works document in an Office format, can't you?
     
    SchoolTech, Mar 2, 2006
    #7
  8. E. Scrooge

    Allistar Guest

    *sling wrote:

    >
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> *sling wrote:
    >>
    >>> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    >>> and
    >>> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    >>> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it
    >>> on his old computer.
    >>>

    >> The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    >> associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    >> versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going
    >> to happen?
    >>
    >> Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >> similar
    >> users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    >> products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be able
    >> to interwork with their files.
    >>
    >> The message IMO is becoming quite clear, businesses and Government have a
    >> moral obligation not to migrate to any 'new' system that 'breaks'
    >> generally
    >> accepted interoperability.

    >
    > It's strange all right that there's no compatibility what so ever between
    > different versions of Microsoft Office and Works.


    I wonder when Microsoft Office will be able to open either sxw or odf
    formats, if ever. I find their lack of compatibility annoying.

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Mar 2, 2006
    #8
  9. E. Scrooge

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "SchoolTech" <> wrote in message
    news:44064a4e$...
    > E. Scrooge wrote:
    >> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> *sling wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's
    >>>> released
    >>>> and
    >>>> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new
    >>>> computer
    >>>> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it
    >>>> on
    >>>> his old computer.
    >>>>
    >>> The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example
    >>> Vista's
    >>> associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    >>> versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going
    >>> to
    >>> happen?
    >>>
    >>> Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >>> similar
    >>> users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    >>> products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be
    >>> able
    >>> to interwork with their files.
    >>>
    >>> The message IMO is becoming quite clear, businesses and Government have
    >>> a
    >>> moral obligation not to migrate to any 'new' system that 'breaks'
    >>> generally
    >>> accepted interoperability.

    >>
    >> It's strange all right that there's no compatibility what so ever between
    >> different versions of Microsoft Office and Works.

    >
    > Works is probably a buy-in. The Mac version of Works was produced by a
    > company other than Microsoft.
    >
    > But you can save a Works document in an Office format, can't you?


    But the while it's a document the format still changes between different
    versions. WPS Word files are different formats between different versions
    of Word as well. Real annoying.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Mar 2, 2006
    #9
  10. E. Scrooge

    Peter Guest

    SchoolTech wrote:

    > Peter wrote:
    >> *sling wrote:
    >>
    >>> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    >>> and
    >>> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    >>> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it
    >>> on his old computer.
    >>>

    >> The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    >> associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    >> versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going
    >> to happen?

    >
    > Oh, I guess some people might have to start paying to use office software.


    You can stick that right up your *****. Why should not people use an
    alternative suitable product.
    >
    >>
    >> Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >> similar users to do something about it from their end (eg buying
    >> Microsoft's products), or will they accept that those with Open Office
    >> should be able to interwork with their files.

    >
    > Why should they?
    > If you're on Windows you can buy Office.



    Why should Government and business support monopoly non-standards, when
    perfectly good commodity standards are becoming available. Does the
    Government require everyone to (say) drive Hondas.
     
    Peter, Mar 2, 2006
    #10
  11. E. Scrooge

    SchoolTech Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > SchoolTech wrote:
    >
    >> Peter wrote:
    >>> *sling wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    >>>> and
    >>>> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    >>>> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it
    >>>> on his old computer.
    >>>>
    >>> The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    >>> associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    >>> versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going
    >>> to happen?

    >> Oh, I guess some people might have to start paying to use office software.

    >
    > You can stick that right up your *****. Why should not people use an
    > alternative suitable product.


    You can use it if you wish. Don't complain if it doesn't work properly
    though.

    >>> Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >>> similar users to do something about it from their end (eg buying
    >>> Microsoft's products), or will they accept that those with Open Office
    >>> should be able to interwork with their files.

    >> Why should they?
    >> If you're on Windows you can buy Office.

    >
    >
    > Why should Government and business support monopoly non-standards, when
    > perfectly good commodity standards are becoming available. Does the
    > Government require everyone to (say) drive Hondas.


    The government is one of the biggest monopolists there is. Look at all
    the free services that can only be got from the government.

    You or anyone else can get third party software that uses, say, PDF as a
    file format and use that if you want to, for example.
     
    SchoolTech, Mar 2, 2006
    #11
  12. E. Scrooge

    Guest

    SchoolTech wrote:
    > Peter wrote:
    >
    >> *sling wrote:
    >>
    >>> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's released
    >>> and
    >>> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new computer
    >>> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install
    >>> it on
    >>> his old computer.
    >>>

    >> The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example Vista's
    >> associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    >> versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is
    >> going to
    >> happen?

    >
    >
    > Oh, I guess some people might have to start paying to use office software.


    Really? how nice for you, the logic of buy everything instead of the
    creative commons....instead of swapping dollars between developers, you
    swap code...

    Once you buy a MS product, just how much support do you get?
    none....guess what we have to buy support off MS, it costs an arm and a
    leg. Or you can do without and get by...just like with OSS.

    >> Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >> similar
    >> users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    >> products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be able
    >> to interwork with their files.

    >
    >
    > Why should they?
    > If you're on Windows you can buy Office.


    Why should I? I can get oOo for free, if I want to buy support I get
    star office....just like if I want support for MS Office....

    regards

    Thing
     
    , Mar 2, 2006
    #12
  13. E. Scrooge

    Guest

    SchoolTech wrote:
    > Peter wrote:
    >
    >> SchoolTech wrote:
    >>
    >>> Peter wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> *sling wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's
    >>>>> released
    >>>>> and
    >>>>> people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new
    >>>>> computer
    >>>>> should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it
    >>>>> on his old computer.
    >>>>>
    >>>> The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example
    >>>> Vista's
    >>>> associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with
    >>>> earlier
    >>>> versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going
    >>>> to happen?
    >>>
    >>> Oh, I guess some people might have to start paying to use office
    >>> software.

    >>
    >>
    >> You can stick that right up your *****. Why should not people use an
    >> alternative suitable product.

    >
    >
    > You can use it if you wish. Don't complain if it doesn't work properly
    > though.


    and the difference between oOo not working and MS Office not working?
    guess what people complain....

    >>>> Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >>>> similar users to do something about it from their end (eg buying
    >>>> Microsoft's products), or will they accept that those with Open Office
    >>>> should be able to interwork with their files.
    >>>
    >>> Why should they?
    >>> If you're on Windows you can buy Office.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Why should Government and business support monopoly non-standards, when
    >> perfectly good commodity standards are becoming available. Does the
    >> Government require everyone to (say) drive Hondas.

    >
    >
    > The government is one of the biggest monopolists there is. Look at all
    > the free services that can only be got from the government.


    At least we can vote out a Government every three years....besides which
    they are not free, we pay taxes for them....we dont get a choice...just
    like MS would wish for us as well.

    > You or anyone else can get third party software that uses, say, PDF as a
    > file format and use that if you want to, for example.


    Yes, except of course MS does not want Governments to use an open
    document format, that way they can lock Governments in...

    which in turn locks government contractors in and the public....

    Pretty soon everyone is forced to use A MS OS and MS Office and pay MS tax.

    By using open standards and formats MS is forced to play on a level
    playing field....

    If MS's software is so good, why does MS resist this so hard?

    The logic being that with an open format you can choose to use MS
    Office, if you believe it is worth paying for.....so you have complete
    freedom....

    I want the same freedom as you, the right to choose freely what software
    I will use to communicate with my Government, MS wants to take that away.

    regards

    Thing
     
    , Mar 2, 2006
    #13
  14. E. Scrooge

    Peter Guest

    y wrote:

    >
    > The logic being that with an open format you can choose to use MS
    > Office, if you believe it is worth paying for.....so you have complete
    > freedom....
    >
    > I want the same freedom as you, the right to choose freely what software
    > I will use to communicate with my Government, MS wants to take that away.
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing

    Actually, I do not mind at all if the NZ Government uses Vista, just as long
    as it insists that the Office product handles open formats such as ODF.
     
    Peter, Mar 2, 2006
    #14
  15. E. Scrooge

    Peter Guest

    *sling wrote:

    >
    > It's strange all right that there's no compatibility what so ever between
    > different versions of Microsoft Office and Works.
    >

    With this, Open Office comes to the rescue. It can successfully open most
    run of the mill formats including obsolete and peculiar Microsoft formats.

    It may well that outfits such as the National Library will in the future
    have Open Office type software that will handle all the formats in their
    archives reasonably well.
     
    Peter, Mar 2, 2006
    #15
  16. E. Scrooge

    thing2 Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > y wrote:
    >
    >
    >>The logic being that with an open format you can choose to use MS
    >>Office, if you believe it is worth paying for.....so you have complete
    >>freedom....
    >>
    >>I want the same freedom as you, the right to choose freely what software
    >>I will use to communicate with my Government, MS wants to take that away.
    >>
    >>regards
    >>
    >>Thing

    >
    > Actually, I do not mind at all if the NZ Government uses Vista, just as long
    > as it insists that the Office product handles open formats such as ODF.



    Me neither, the key is saving in ODF so in the future anybody can read
    the stuff without having a MS licence to do so.

    It also means that "Power users" get the features of MS Office (if
    needed) and plain vanilla users like me can use oOo or Star Office
    saving large amounts and interacting without an issue (let heads of
    departments see oOo as a "free" office suite and if a power user wants
    MS Office they pay extra, then lets see whats happens ;] ). Of course MS
    wont want that, it wants each seat using its software, which forces its
    desktop and its OS....a circular dependancy....hard to break....

    The worry is "default settings", eg making sure MS Office always saves
    in pure ODF by default. Otherwise proprietry extension creep to ODF
    could creep in....a classic MS embrace and extend....then find down the
    road that the ODF document you thought you had isnt....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing2, Mar 5, 2006
    #16
  17. E. Scrooge

    thing2 Guest

    E. Scrooge wrote:
    > "SchoolTech" <> wrote in message
    > news:44064a4e$...
    >
    >>E. Scrooge wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Peter" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>>*sling wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Like Windows XP the proof in the real pudding will be when it's
    >>>>>released
    >>>>>and
    >>>>>people mostly with new computers start using it. Since the new
    >>>>>computer
    >>>>>should be well be setup for it, instead of Johnny trying to install it
    >>>>>on
    >>>>>his old computer.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>The challenge is going to come with file formats. If for example
    >>>>Vista's
    >>>>associated Office suite tweaks file formats so they work OK with earlier
    >>>>versions of Office, but 'break' the likes of Open Office, what is going
    >>>>to
    >>>>happen?
    >>>>
    >>>>Can businesses and Government agencies simply expect Open Office and
    >>>>similar
    >>>>users to do something about it from their end (eg buying Microsoft's
    >>>>products), or will they accept that those with Open Office should be
    >>>>able
    >>>>to interwork with their files.
    >>>>
    >>>>The message IMO is becoming quite clear, businesses and Government have
    >>>>a
    >>>>moral obligation not to migrate to any 'new' system that 'breaks'
    >>>>generally
    >>>>accepted interoperability.
    >>>
    >>>It's strange all right that there's no compatibility what so ever between
    >>>different versions of Microsoft Office and Works.

    >>
    >>Works is probably a buy-in. The Mac version of Works was produced by a
    >>company other than Microsoft.
    >>
    >>But you can save a Works document in an Office format, can't you?

    >
    >
    > But the while it's a document the format still changes between different
    > versions. WPS Word files are different formats between different versions
    > of Word as well. Real annoying.
    >
    > E. Scrooge
    >
    >


    This is where oOo starts to win friends...your "power MS Office user"
    finds he/she cannot open an old Word doc, so "you" show them oOo.....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing2, Mar 5, 2006
    #17
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