Windows freeware to edit & create EXIF data for JPEG photos

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Crusader, Jul 7, 2007.

  1. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    Does anyone know of Windows freeware that creates and edits EXIF data for
    JPEG photos?
     
    Crusader, Jul 7, 2007
    #1
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  2. Crusader

    CoMa Guest

    CoMa, Jul 7, 2007
    #2
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  3. Crusader

    Ray Macey Guest

    Ray Macey, Jul 7, 2007
    #3
  4. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:50:28 +0200, CoMa wrote:
    >> Does anyone know of Windows freeware that creates and edits EXIF data for
    >> JPEG photos?

    >
    > How about Exifer for Windows
    > http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/


    Wow. I appreciate your telling me about this as I was totally unaware of
    Exifer prior to this post. It is "probably" a good tool and it probably
    works just fine, but it sure doesn't work the way I thought it would for
    me, a newbie.

    First, I figured I'd load a picture and get a form with all the Exif data
    but it puts only SOME of the Exif data into a form where you have to scroll
    one by one through the forms.

    Second, I figured it would load existing Exif data like that shown with
    Irfanview but it doedsn't. It seems to wipe out the existing Exif data and
    allow you to create totally new Exif data, but that's not what I wanted. To
    it's credit, I didn't state that I wanted to edit existing Exif data so I
    am NOT complaining. I'm just stating what it seems to be.

    I'm sure it's probably a good tool, but I will keep looking unless there is
    nothing else out there and then I'll go back to Exifer which seems to be
    great for createing NEW Exif data but not necessarily for editing EXISTING
    Exif data.

    Thanks!!!!!
     
    Crusader, Jul 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Crusader

    Ray Macey Guest

    On Jul 8, 1:48 am, Crusader <> wrote:
    >
    > I'm sure it's probably a good tool, but I will keep looking unless there is
    > nothing else out there and then I'll go back to Exifer which seems to be
    > great for createing NEW Exif data but not necessarily for editing EXISTING
    > Exif data.


    As I said in my reply to your first post, try MS photo info. It lets
    you append or replace EXIF and IPTC as you prefer

    Ray
     
    Ray Macey, Jul 8, 2007
    #5
  6. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:21:13 -0700, Ray Macey wrote:

    > On Jul 8, 1:48 am, Crusader <> wrote:
    >>
    >> I'm sure it's probably a good tool, but I will keep looking unless there is
    >> nothing else out there and then I'll go back to Exifer which seems to be
    >> great for createing NEW Exif data but not necessarily for editing EXISTING
    >> Exif data.

    >
    > As I said in my reply to your first post, try MS photo info. It lets
    > you append or replace EXIF and IPTC as you prefer
    >
    > Ray


    Hi there Ray,
    I generally avoid Microsoft bloatware products at all costs, but since
    Exifer replaced but didn't allow an edit to existing Exif data, I guess
    since there is no other alternative, I'm installing the Microsoft PhotoInfo
    product you recommended right now after (for the umpteenth time) going
    through the Windows validation process (why can't they just remember the
    previous validation).

    I immediately see MS PhotoInfo requires .NET bloatware, so I'll have to
    install that in order to run the program. This should be more clearly
    stated on the download pages (maybe it is, but I don't remember seeing that
    it takes two downloads to get the software up and running).

    OK, that was wierd. When I installed MS PhotoInfo, it didn't give me the
    option to start it when the installer finished, it didn't put an icon on
    the desktop and it didn't put an entry in the start menu. While I applaud
    the lack of bloat ... my first response is "where is the program shortcut"?

    Luckily I know where I put ALL my programs (c:\software\photo
    editors\msphotoinfo) so I could make a shortcut for my menu system to
    "PhotoInfo.exe".

    When I doubleclicked on C:\software\photo
    editors\msphotoinfo\photoinfo.exe, the GUI didn't come up but a warning
    came up saying "Photo Info: No supported image files were found in the
    current file selection". Huh? I didn't select any files. When I press OK,
    the warning goes away, and nothing else happens.

    Obviosly the intuitive use model isn't the norm here. Nowhere did the GUI
    tell me what to do so I started guessing that I have to select a few image
    files first before the MS PhotoInfo program knows what to do. I right
    clicked to use the intuitive "Open With" command but then figured that MS
    must have put SOMETHING in the menu system. Lo and behold, there was a new
    "PhotoInfo" selection way way down in my menus (lot's of crapware installs
    things into this right click selection).

    In about twice or three times the time it takes for Irfanview to bring up a
    picture, MS PhotoInfo had the Exif data available, which isn't too bad.

    But then, I was shocked to find that, like Exifer, the proven existing Exif
    data was not available in the edit tabs. I scrolled through each tab
    (Description, Keywords, Origin, Advanced, Details) and didn't see anything
    other than the Description tab had a vastly truncated version of what
    Irfanview shows with the "I" information command - yet, like Irfanview, the
    existing Exif data was NOT editable.

    In the Origin tab, the DATE was available if you hit the box that said "Use
    Exif capture date if available" which was good. But, nowhere was there a
    button that said "suck in the existing Exif data, dammit".

    Did I miss something here?

    Other than the Exif creation date, are you SURE that MS PhotoInfo sucks in
    existing Exif data to be modified thereafter?








    which I just downloaded.
     
    Crusader, Jul 8, 2007
    #6
  7. Crusader

    Susan Bugher Guest

    Crusader wrote:

    > Hi there Ray,
    > I generally avoid Microsoft bloatware products at all costs, but since
    > Exifer replaced but didn't allow an edit to existing Exif data, I guess
    > since there is no other alternative, I'm installing the Microsoft PhotoInfo
    > product you recommended right now after (for the umpteenth time) going
    > through the Windows validation process (why can't they just remember the
    > previous validation).


    <big snip>

    > But then, I was shocked to find that, like Exifer, the proven existing Exif
    > data was not available in the edit tabs. I scrolled through each tab
    > (Description, Keywords, Origin, Advanced, Details) and didn't see anything
    > other than the Description tab had a vastly truncated version of what
    > Irfanview shows with the "I" information command - yet, like Irfanview, the
    > existing Exif data was NOT editable.


    Program: PixVue
    Author: Eamonn Coleman
    W: LFW
    Ware: (Freeware) LFW (v 2.0.1)
    http://www.softsea.com/review/PixVue.html

    per info from ACF posts (saved in my Treepad file) you can add metadata
    via Explorer's right click menu and you can use templates for mass
    processing. (I haven't used it.)

    Susan
    --
    Posted to alt.comp.freeware
    Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
    http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q= group:alt.comp.freeware
    Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
    Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
     
    Susan Bugher, Jul 8, 2007
    #7
  8. Crusader

    Marcin Guest

    Try "Image resizer" - simply and very fast lossless JPEG editor.
    "Image resizer" contains exif editor.
    You can download it from here: http://semland.com/ir/#download (run, select
    English language (go to "OPCJE" next click on "JEZYK").

    Best wishes
    Marcin Gorgolewski
    www.gorgolewski.com



    Uzytkownik "Crusader" <> napisal w wiadomosci
    news:eek:Oaki.4041$...
    > On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:21:13 -0700, Ray Macey wrote:
    >
    >> On Jul 8, 1:48 am, Crusader <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> I'm sure it's probably a good tool, but I will keep looking unless there
    >>> is
    >>> nothing else out there and then I'll go back to Exifer which seems to be
    >>> great for createing NEW Exif data but not necessarily for editing
    >>> EXISTING
    >>> Exif data.

    >>
    >> As I said in my reply to your first post, try MS photo info. It lets
    >> you append or replace EXIF and IPTC as you prefer
    >>
    >> Ray

    >
    > Hi there Ray,
    > I generally avoid Microsoft bloatware products at all costs, but since
    > Exifer replaced but didn't allow an edit to existing Exif data, I guess
    > since there is no other alternative, I'm installing the Microsoft
    > PhotoInfo
    > product you recommended right now after (for the umpteenth time) going
    > through the Windows validation process (why can't they just remember the
    > previous validation).
    >
    > I immediately see MS PhotoInfo requires .NET bloatware, so I'll have to
    > install that in order to run the program. This should be more clearly
    > stated on the download pages (maybe it is, but I don't remember seeing
    > that
    > it takes two downloads to get the software up and running).
    >
    > OK, that was wierd. When I installed MS PhotoInfo, it didn't give me the
    > option to start it when the installer finished, it didn't put an icon on
    > the desktop and it didn't put an entry in the start menu. While I applaud
    > the lack of bloat ... my first response is "where is the program
    > shortcut"?
    >
    > Luckily I know where I put ALL my programs (c:\software\photo
    > editors\msphotoinfo) so I could make a shortcut for my menu system to
    > "PhotoInfo.exe".
    >
    > When I doubleclicked on C:\software\photo
    > editors\msphotoinfo\photoinfo.exe, the GUI didn't come up but a warning
    > came up saying "Photo Info: No supported image files were found in the
    > current file selection". Huh? I didn't select any files. When I press OK,
    > the warning goes away, and nothing else happens.
    >
    > Obviosly the intuitive use model isn't the norm here. Nowhere did the GUI
    > tell me what to do so I started guessing that I have to select a few image
    > files first before the MS PhotoInfo program knows what to do. I right
    > clicked to use the intuitive "Open With" command but then figured that MS
    > must have put SOMETHING in the menu system. Lo and behold, there was a new
    > "PhotoInfo" selection way way down in my menus (lot's of crapware installs
    > things into this right click selection).
    >
    > In about twice or three times the time it takes for Irfanview to bring up
    > a
    > picture, MS PhotoInfo had the Exif data available, which isn't too bad.
    >
    > But then, I was shocked to find that, like Exifer, the proven existing
    > Exif
    > data was not available in the edit tabs. I scrolled through each tab
    > (Description, Keywords, Origin, Advanced, Details) and didn't see anything
    > other than the Description tab had a vastly truncated version of what
    > Irfanview shows with the "I" information command - yet, like Irfanview,
    > the
    > existing Exif data was NOT editable.
    >
    > In the Origin tab, the DATE was available if you hit the box that said
    > "Use
    > Exif capture date if available" which was good. But, nowhere was there a
    > button that said "suck in the existing Exif data, dammit".
    >
    > Did I miss something here?
    >
    > Other than the Exif creation date, are you SURE that MS PhotoInfo sucks in
    > existing Exif data to be modified thereafter?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > which I just downloaded.
     
    Marcin, Jul 8, 2007
    #8
  9. Crusader

    Ray Macey Guest

    On Jul 9, 5:18 am, Crusader <> wrote:
    >
    > Other than the Exif creation date, are you SURE that MS PhotoInfo sucks in
    > existing Exif data to be modified thereafter?


    It's been a while since I used it, but I remember it doing that.
    Having just had another look, it seems you're right and it does not.
    It appears as if I was remembering another program. My apologies for
    wasting your time

    Ray
     
    Ray Macey, Jul 8, 2007
    #9
  10. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:42:11 -0700, Ray Macey wrote:

    >> Other than the Exif creation date, are you SURE
    >> MS PhotoInfo modifies existing Exif data?


    > Having just had another look, it seems you're right and it does not.
    > My apologies for wasting your time


    Hi there Ray,

    No, you did NOT waste my time. The whole purpose of the usenet is for
    people to help people and for other people to benefit from the exchange of
    ideas. I think it was GREAT that you suggested a program that could have
    solved the problem - in this case, a program that allowed modification of
    existing Exif data.

    As often happens in usenet posts, I was NOT CLEAR from the start that I
    wanted to edit EXISTING data. That is my bad. I didn't realize that was a
    limitation of the existing Exif-data editors until I tried one or two out.

    And, it was not at all your fault I have a predisposition (call it
    prejudice if you will) to not like Microsoft products due to bloat all too
    often being the result. So I didn't try the MS PhotoInfo program until the
    Exifer program failed first.

    In addition, we didn't waste our time as we both edified the populace at
    large by our exchange of ideas, suggestions, & results. So THANK YOU for
    suggesting Microsoft PhotoInfo - it might be a great program for many who
    don't have the specific desire to edit existing Exif data!

    Thank you Ray and everyone else ... I will try the other suggested Exif
    editors to see if they can modify EXISTING Exif data!
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #10
  11. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:18:52 -0700, Crusader wrote:

    > Lo and behold, there was a new "PhotoInfo" selection way way
    > down in my right click menu


    Interesting. Very interesting. I think I found a bug in MS Photo Info and
    perhaps, a bit of spyware (or at the very least, some stupidware).

    1. MS Photo Info phones home to Microsoft every time you run it
    2. There is apparently no option to turn off that home phoning
    3. MS Photo Info can't seem to handle being installed properly

    The purported spyware occurs when you right click on a photo, ZoneAlarm
    freeware immediately tells you that "Windows Explorer is trying to access
    the Internet" and then another security alert "Photo Info executable is
    trying to access the Internet" destination IP 131.107.115.28:HTTP, both of
    which you can deny.

    When I reverse DNS 131.107.115.28 with Nir Sofer's IPNetInfo freeware
    (http://www.nirsoft.net), it tells me MS PhotoInfo is trying to contact
    "Microsoft Corp" at "One Microsoft Way", "Redmond, Washington" for some
    reason.

    I can't believe MS PhotoInfo is contacting Microsoft for the purpose of
    Exif data in my photos (I sure hope it's not transmitting my Exif
    information to Microsoft) so the only other quasi legit reason for
    contacting Microsoft would be to check for updates.

    Generally I turn that update check off (preferring to contact the
    manufacturer only when I manually check for updates). So, I clicked about
    to find the setting to turn off automatic updates. And clicked. And
    clicked.

    Nowhere could I find an options form that allowed me to TURN OFF that
    incessant "MS Phone Home" of Microsoft Photo Info. Can that be?

    Interestingly, even though I have Opera, Firefox, Safari, and, yes,
    Internet Explorer installed and running, when I pressed the "Give us your
    feedback on this product" button, MS Photo Info (Version 1.0, build
    1.0.278.0) said "Photo Info: An error occurred trying to show Feedback Web
    page. Do you have a valid web browser installed?" After a couple of tries,
    MS Photo Info hung my system, and I had to reboot and rebuild my Quick
    Launch menu which I have to rebuild almost every time the machine hangs.

    Why did Microsoft Photo Info not find it's own web browser?

    I'm going to guess that MS Photo Info has a bug where it can't deal with
    the fact that it was installed into the intuitive (to me) path of
    c:\software\photo editors\msphotoinfo". Or maybe it can't handle that all
    my browsers, including Internet Explorer, are stored in c:\software\web
    browsers\". Hmmmhmmmhmmm...

    Maybe someone ELSE can test this reputed MS Photo Info bug by installing
    Microsoft Photo Editor into a path that isn't "c:\program files" and then
    click on the "Advanced" tab, and then "About Microsoft Photo Info".

    So, I have now have two requests so this newsgroup populace is edified
    about MS Photo Info ...

    1. Does anyone know where the option lies to turn OFF the MS Photo Info
    prediliction to phone home every single time you use the program?

    2. Can someone try and report back whether MS Photo Info handles being
    installed into "c:\software\photo editors" for them?

    Thanks for helping everyone by posting your results to the usenet!
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #11
  12. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:48:58 -0400, Susan Bugher wrote:
    > Program: PixVue
    > http://www.softsea.com/review/PixVue.html


    Since Exifer and MS Photo Info didn't work to edit existing Exif
    information, I move on to test Susan's PixVue suggestion.

    StartupMonitor freeware gave a warning with the PixVue installation of:
    The program wextract_cleanup0 has registered the executable
    rundll.exe c:\My OS\Windows\system32\advpack.dll,DelNodeRunDLL32
    "C:\DOCUME~1\crusader\LOCALS~1\Temp\IXP000.TMP\"
    to run at system startup. Do you wish to allow this change? Yes. No.

    Would you answer yes or no to this warning? WHy?
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #12
  13. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:48:58 -0400, Susan Bugher wrote:
    > Program: PixVue
    > http://www.softsea.com/review/PixVue.html


    Too bad. PixVue does not seem to edit existing Exif data.

    I right clicked on a photo and noticed that there were multiple PixVue menu
    entries added (due to bloat, my right click menu is longer than the screen
    so I have to scroll down).

    Even though I know (from Irfanview) that the photo has extensive Exif data,
    PixVue only seems to know about the "Date Created" and "Time Created".

    Click as I might, from the "1. General" to "2. Keywords", "3.Categories"
    and "4. Origin" tabs, like Exifer and MS Photo Info before PixVue, none
    allow edits to EXISTING Exif data!

    Wow. You'd think this would be a very common feature.

    Doesn't anyone else want to edit existing Exif data with a Windows freeware
    tool?
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #13
  14. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:31:24 +0200, Marcin wrote:

    > Try "Image resizer" which contains an exif editor.
    > http://semland.com/ir/#download
    > (select English (go to "OPCJE" next click on "JEZYK").


    I guess the Polish Image Resizer is the world's last choice for Exif
    editors as all the others failed.

    Not to be confused with the Microsoft Image Resizer PowerToy
    (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx),
    I downloaded your suggested Polish Image Resizer to test if it could edit
    existing Exif information in a digital photograph.

    Given that Polish is a foreign language to me, I'm glad you told me to
    click first on the "OPCJE" menu and then on the "JEZYK" sub menu item, or
    I'd never have figured out how to use this rec.photo.digital and
    alt.comp.freeware recommended image-resizer program!

    But when I hit "File > Other Functions > Change EXIF", the Image Resizer
    program spits out the error "General Information: EXIF DATA ErrStr = Not an
    EXIF file".

    Despite the fact the photo has extensive Exif data, this Polish Image
    Resizer is apparently looking for an Exif file??? What is an Exif file?

    I looked up in Wikipedia for what an Exif file is, but only find that the
    capitalization is Exif and not EXIF.

    Does anyone out there know what an Exif file is that the Polish Image
    Resizer is looking for?
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #14
  15. Crusader

    Ray Macey Guest

    On Jul 9, 5:06 pm, Crusader <> wrote:
    > Click as I might, from the "1. General" to "2. Keywords", "3.Categories"
    > and "4. Origin" tabs, like Exifer and MS Photo Info before PixVue, none
    > allow edits to EXISTING Exif data!


    Keywords are IPTC, not Exif, and I know for certain that Photoinfo
    does display and let you edit existing IPTC keywords, though as
    previously discussed, it lacks in other areas.

    That being said, another one to try is IDimager lite (it's the free
    version). It gives quite a bit of freedom to edit EXIF data (though I
    don't like the program itself).

    Orientation
    Date time
    Date original
    Date digitized
    User Comment
    JPG Comment
    Instructions
    Usage Terms
    Genre
    Job Identifier
    Title
    Headline
    Description
    Keywords
    Copyright notice
    Creator details

    Those are the "at a glance" IPTC and Exif fields it will let you edit,
    though it displays a much larger number that you can't edit (shutter
    count, pixel/resolution details, exposure values etc)

    Ray
     
    Ray Macey, Jul 9, 2007
    #15
  16. Crusader

    Marcin Guest

    there are no separately EXIF file,
    try use it with other file,

    I tested Image Resizer,
    this is sample readout I got using image resizer.


    General Information:

    File Name: 2005_01_10_0020.JPG
    File Size: 164k
    File Date: 2007-07-09
    Photo Date: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    Make (Model): Canon (Canon PowerShot A80)
    Dimensions: 1024 x 768
    Exposure Time: 1/100 sec
    Focal Length: 7,81 mm
    FNumber: F2,8
    Flash: No

    Orientation: Normal
    OwnerName: ""
    ImageType: "IMG:powerShot A80 JPEG"
    FirmwareVersion: "Firmware Version 1.00"
    ImageNumber: 2636351
    ExposureTime: 1/100 sec
    FNumber: F2,8
    ExifVersion: "0220"
    DateTimeOriginal: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    DateTimeDigitized: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    ExposureMode: Auto
    ExposureBiasValue: 0/3
    MeteringMode: MultiSegment
    WhiteBalance: Auto
    Flash: Off, surpressed
    FocalLength: 7,81 mm
    FlashPixVersion: "0100"
    ColorSpace: sRGB
    ExifImageWidth: 1024
    ExifImageLength: 768
    DateTime: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    XResolution: 180,00
    YResolution: 180,00
    ResolutionUnit: Inch
    Make: Canon
    Model: Canon PowerShot A80
    ExifOffset: 196


    ____ EXIF DATA ______________

    Make = Canon
    Model = Canon PowerShot A80
    Orientation = Normal
    XResolution = 180,00
    YResolution = 180,00
    Resolution Unit = Inch
    Date Time = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    YCb Cr Positioning = Centered
    Exif Offset = 196
    Exposure Time = 1/100 sec
    FNumber = F2,8
    Exif Version = "0220"
    Date Time Original = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    Date Time Digitized = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    Components Configuration = YCbCr
    Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 3/1
    Shutter Speed Value = 0,0099 sec (1/101)
    Aperture Value = F3,0
    Exposure Bias Value = 0/3
    Max Aperture Value = F3,0
    Metering Mode = MultiSegment
    Flash = Off, surpressed
    Focal Length = 7,81 mm
    Maker Note = "."
    User Comment =
    Flash Pix Version = "0100"
    Color Space = sRGB
    Exif Image Width = 1024
    Exif Image Length = 768
    Interoperability Offset = 1844
    Interoperability Index = R98
    Interoperability Version = "0100"
    Related Image Width = 1600
    Related Image Height = 1200
    Focal Plane XResolution = 1600000/280
    Focal Plane YResolution = 1200000/210
    Focal Plane Resolution Unit = Inch
    Sensing Method = OneChipColorArea
    File Source = "."
    Custom Rendered = Normal process
    Exposure Mode = Auto
    White Balance = Auto
    Digital Zoom Ratio = 2272/2272
    Scene Capture Type = Portrait
    Focal Length in 35mm Film = 59,41
    Intel Byte Order
    Make = Canon
    Model = Canon PowerShot A80
    Orientation = Normal
    XResolution = 180,00
    YResolution = 180,00
    Resolution Unit = Inch
    Date Time = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    YCb Cr Positioning = Centered
    Exposure Time = 1/100 sec
    FNumber = F2,8
    Exif Version = "0220"
    Date Time Original = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    Date Time Digitized = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    Components Configuration = YCbCr
    Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 3/1
    Shutter Speed Value = 0,0099 sec (1/101)
    Aperture Value = F3,0
    Exposure Bias Value = 0/3
    Max Aperture Value = F3,0
    Metering Mode = MultiSegment
    Flash = Off, surpressed
    Focal Length = 7,81 mm
    Maker Note = "."
    User Comment =
    Flash Pix Version = "0100"
    Color Space = sRGB
    Exif Image Width = 1024
    Exif Image Length = 768
    Interoperability Index = R98
    Interoperability Version = "0100"
    Related Image Width = 1600
    Related Image Height = 1200
    Interoperability Offset = 1844
    Focal Plane XResolution = 1600000/280
    Focal Plane YResolution = 1200000/210
    Focal Plane Resolution Unit = Inch
    Sensing Method = OneChipColorArea
    File Source = "."
    Custom Rendered = Normal process
    Exposure Mode = Auto
    White Balance = Auto
    Digital Zoom Ratio = 2272/2272
    Scene Capture Type = Portrait
    Exif Offset = 196
    Focal Length in 35mm Film = 59,41



    _____ Maker Specific Data _____

    Macro mode = Normal
    Self Timer = 2
    Compression Rate = Basic
    Flash Mode = Not fired
    Drive Mode = Single
    Focus Mode = Single
    ExposureInfo1 = 92, 2, 20, 3, 0, 0, 0, 4
    White balance = Auto
    ExposureInfo2 = 68, 0, 128, 174, 95, 213, 0, 0
    Unknown = 9, 9, 1600, 1200, 2272, 212, 409, 38
    Unknown = 0, 0, 0, 0
    ImageType = "IMG:powerShot A80 JPEG"
    FirmwareVersion = "Firmware Version 1.00"
    ImageNumber = 2636351
    OwnerName = ""
    Unknown = 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
    Unknown = 1
    Macro mode = Normal
    Self Timer = 2
    Compression Rate = Basic
    Flash Mode = Not fired
    Drive Mode = Single
    Focus Mode = Single
    ExposureInfo1 = 92, 2, 20, 3, 0, 0, 0, 4
    White balance = Auto
    ExposureInfo2 = 68, 0, 128, 174, 95, 213, 0, 0
    ImageType = "IMG:powerShot A80 JPEG"
    FirmwareVersion = "Firmware Version 1.00"
    ImageNumber = 2636351
    OwnerName = ""

    ==========================
    ==========================
    I'm able to change by using Image Resizer:
    Owner Name
    Image type
    Make
    Model
    Firmware Version
    Image Number
    Orientation
    Light Source
    White Balance
    Exposure Mode
    ==============================
    ================================
    Best wishes
    Marcin Gorgolewski
    www.gorgolewski.com




    Uzytkownik "Crusader" <> napisal w wiadomosci
    news:Nqlki.38115$...
    > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:31:24 +0200, Marcin wrote:
    >
    >> Try "Image resizer" which contains an exif editor.
    >> http://semland.com/ir/#download
    >> (select English (go to "OPCJE" next click on "JEZYK").

    >
    > I guess the Polish Image Resizer is the world's last choice for Exif
    > editors as all the others failed.
    >
    > Not to be confused with the Microsoft Image Resizer PowerToy
    > (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx),
    > I downloaded your suggested Polish Image Resizer to test if it could edit
    > existing Exif information in a digital photograph.
    >
    > Given that Polish is a foreign language to me, I'm glad you told me to
    > click first on the "OPCJE" menu and then on the "JEZYK" sub menu item, or
    > I'd never have figured out how to use this rec.photo.digital and
    > alt.comp.freeware recommended image-resizer program!
    >
    > But when I hit "File > Other Functions > Change EXIF", the Image Resizer
    > program spits out the error "General Information: EXIF DATA ErrStr = Not
    > an
    > EXIF file".
    >
    > Despite the fact the photo has extensive Exif data, this Polish Image
    > Resizer is apparently looking for an Exif file??? What is an Exif file?
    >
    > I looked up in Wikipedia for what an Exif file is, but only find that the
    > capitalization is Exif and not EXIF.
    >
    > Does anyone out there know what an Exif file is that the Polish Image
    > Resizer is looking for?
    >
    >
    >
     
    Marcin, Jul 9, 2007
    #16
  17. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:09:05 +0200, Marcin wrote:

    > there are no separately EXIF file,
    > try use it with other file,
    >
    > I tested Image Resizer,
    > this is sample readout I got using image resizer.
    >
    > General Information:
    >
    > File Name: 2005_01_10_0020.JPG
    > File Size: 164k
    > File Date: 2007-07-09
    > Photo Date: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > Make (Model): Canon (Canon PowerShot A80)
    > Dimensions: 1024 x 768
    > Exposure Time: 1/100 sec
    > Focal Length: 7,81 mm
    > FNumber: F2,8
    > Flash: No
    >
    > Orientation: Normal
    > OwnerName: ""
    > ImageType: "IMG:powerShot A80 JPEG"
    > FirmwareVersion: "Firmware Version 1.00"
    > ImageNumber: 2636351
    > ExposureTime: 1/100 sec
    > FNumber: F2,8
    > ExifVersion: "0220"
    > DateTimeOriginal: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > DateTimeDigitized: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > ExposureMode: Auto
    > ExposureBiasValue: 0/3
    > MeteringMode: MultiSegment
    > WhiteBalance: Auto
    > Flash: Off, surpressed
    > FocalLength: 7,81 mm
    > FlashPixVersion: "0100"
    > ColorSpace: sRGB
    > ExifImageWidth: 1024
    > ExifImageLength: 768
    > DateTime: 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > XResolution: 180,00
    > YResolution: 180,00
    > ResolutionUnit: Inch
    > Make: Canon
    > Model: Canon PowerShot A80
    > ExifOffset: 196
    >
    > ____ EXIF DATA ______________
    >
    > Make = Canon
    > Model = Canon PowerShot A80
    > Orientation = Normal
    > XResolution = 180,00
    > YResolution = 180,00
    > Resolution Unit = Inch
    > Date Time = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > YCb Cr Positioning = Centered
    > Exif Offset = 196
    > Exposure Time = 1/100 sec
    > FNumber = F2,8
    > Exif Version = "0220"
    > Date Time Original = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > Date Time Digitized = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > Components Configuration = YCbCr
    > Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 3/1
    > Shutter Speed Value = 0,0099 sec (1/101)
    > Aperture Value = F3,0
    > Exposure Bias Value = 0/3
    > Max Aperture Value = F3,0
    > Metering Mode = MultiSegment
    > Flash = Off, surpressed
    > Focal Length = 7,81 mm
    > Maker Note = "."
    > User Comment =
    > Flash Pix Version = "0100"
    > Color Space = sRGB
    > Exif Image Width = 1024
    > Exif Image Length = 768
    > Interoperability Offset = 1844
    > Interoperability Index = R98
    > Interoperability Version = "0100"
    > Related Image Width = 1600
    > Related Image Height = 1200
    > Focal Plane XResolution = 1600000/280
    > Focal Plane YResolution = 1200000/210
    > Focal Plane Resolution Unit = Inch
    > Sensing Method = OneChipColorArea
    > File Source = "."
    > Custom Rendered = Normal process
    > Exposure Mode = Auto
    > White Balance = Auto
    > Digital Zoom Ratio = 2272/2272
    > Scene Capture Type = Portrait
    > Focal Length in 35mm Film = 59,41
    > Intel Byte Order
    > Make = Canon
    > Model = Canon PowerShot A80
    > Orientation = Normal
    > XResolution = 180,00
    > YResolution = 180,00
    > Resolution Unit = Inch
    > Date Time = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > YCb Cr Positioning = Centered
    > Exposure Time = 1/100 sec
    > FNumber = F2,8
    > Exif Version = "0220"
    > Date Time Original = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > Date Time Digitized = 2005:01:10 11:29:02
    > Components Configuration = YCbCr
    > Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 3/1
    > Shutter Speed Value = 0,0099 sec (1/101)
    > Aperture Value = F3,0
    > Exposure Bias Value = 0/3
    > Max Aperture Value = F3,0
    > Metering Mode = MultiSegment
    > Flash = Off, surpressed
    > Focal Length = 7,81 mm
    > Maker Note = "."
    > User Comment =
    > Flash Pix Version = "0100"
    > Color Space = sRGB
    > Exif Image Width = 1024
    > Exif Image Length = 768
    > Interoperability Index = R98
    > Interoperability Version = "0100"
    > Related Image Width = 1600
    > Related Image Height = 1200
    > Interoperability Offset = 1844
    > Focal Plane XResolution = 1600000/280
    > Focal Plane YResolution = 1200000/210
    > Focal Plane Resolution Unit = Inch
    > Sensing Method = OneChipColorArea
    > File Source = "."
    > Custom Rendered = Normal process
    > Exposure Mode = Auto
    > White Balance = Auto
    > Digital Zoom Ratio = 2272/2272
    > Scene Capture Type = Portrait
    > Exif Offset = 196
    > Focal Length in 35mm Film = 59,41
    >
    > _____ Maker Specific Data _____
    >
    > Macro mode = Normal
    > Self Timer = 2
    > Compression Rate = Basic
    > Flash Mode = Not fired
    > Drive Mode = Single
    > Focus Mode = Single
    > ExposureInfo1 = 92, 2, 20, 3, 0, 0, 0, 4
    > White balance = Auto
    > ExposureInfo2 = 68, 0, 128, 174, 95, 213, 0, 0
    > Unknown = 9, 9, 1600, 1200, 2272, 212, 409, 38
    > Unknown = 0, 0, 0, 0
    > ImageType = "IMG:powerShot A80 JPEG"
    > FirmwareVersion = "Firmware Version 1.00"
    > ImageNumber = 2636351
    > OwnerName = ""
    > Unknown = 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
    > Unknown = 1
    > Macro mode = Normal
    > Self Timer = 2
    > Compression Rate = Basic
    > Flash Mode = Not fired
    > Drive Mode = Single
    > Focus Mode = Single
    > ExposureInfo1 = 92, 2, 20, 3, 0, 0, 0, 4
    > White balance = Auto
    > ExposureInfo2 = 68, 0, 128, 174, 95, 213, 0, 0
    > ImageType = "IMG:powerShot A80 JPEG"
    > FirmwareVersion = "Firmware Version 1.00"
    > ImageNumber = 2636351
    > OwnerName = ""
    >
    > ==========================
    > ==========================
    > I'm able to change by using Image Resizer:
    > Owner Name
    > Image type
    > Make
    > Model
    > Firmware Version
    > Image Number
    > Orientation
    > Light Source
    > White Balance
    > Exposure Mode
    > ==============================
    > ================================
    > Best wishes
    > Marcin Gorgolewski
    > www.gorgolewski.com
    >
    > Uzytkownik "Crusader" <> napisal w wiadomosci
    > news:Nqlki.38115$...
    >> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:31:24 +0200, Marcin wrote:
    >>
    >>> Try "Image resizer" which contains an exif editor.
    >>> http://semland.com/ir/#download
    >>> (select English (go to "OPCJE" next click on "JEZYK").

    >>
    >> I guess the Polish Image Resizer is the world's last choice for Exif
    >> editors as all the others failed.
    >>
    >> Not to be confused with the Microsoft Image Resizer PowerToy
    >> (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx),
    >> I downloaded your suggested Polish Image Resizer to test if it could edit
    >> existing Exif information in a digital photograph.
    >>
    >> Given that Polish is a foreign language to me, I'm glad you told me to
    >> click first on the "OPCJE" menu and then on the "JEZYK" sub menu item, or
    >> I'd never have figured out how to use this rec.photo.digital and
    >> alt.comp.freeware recommended image-resizer program!
    >>
    >> But when I hit "File > Other Functions > Change EXIF", the Image Resizer
    >> program spits out the error "General Information: EXIF DATA ErrStr = Not
    >> an
    >> EXIF file".
    >>
    >> Despite the fact the photo has extensive Exif data, this Polish Image
    >> Resizer is apparently looking for an Exif file??? What is an Exif file?
    >>
    >> I looked up in Wikipedia for what an Exif file is, but only find that the
    >> capitalization is Exif and not EXIF.
    >>
    >> Does anyone out there know what an Exif file is that the Polish Image
    >> Resizer is looking for?
    >>
    >>
    >>


    Wierd. Very wierd. I tried with photographs taken both with Nikon and Canon
    cameras. Irfanview shows extensive Exif fields for both. I must be doing
    something wrong if you see Exif data and I don't.

    Let's see if we're both doing the same thing.
    a. I'm on Windows XP SP2
    b. I unpacked the zip file from http://semland.com/ir/#download
    c. It contained a single exe file which I moved to
    "c:\software\photo editors\polish_image_resizer"
    d. I made a shortcut and put that in my start menu at
    "Start -> software -> photo editors -> polish image resizer"
    e. Clicking on that shortcut brings up IR version 0.9g build 220905.13
    f. I selected English by pressing "OPCJE" -> "JEZYK" -> English
    g. I select a photo by pressing "File" -> "Open" -> "photo.jpg"
    where the photo is stored in "c:\photos\testphoto\photo.jpg"
    h. I select File -> Other Functions -> Change EXIF
    and I get the error:
    General Information:
    ____ EXIF DATA ______________
    ErrStr = Not an EXIF file

    I'll run some more tests but I did test both Canon and Nikon photos.
    One problem I've seen is some programs have hard-coded paths in them so
    they can't work on a system where there is none of those silly
    Microsoftisms such as a ridiculously flat "c:\program files" directory and
    no confusingly organized "c:\Documents and Settings" directory.

    Usually the only ones that have problems with a well organized computer are
    the Microsoft programs but I'll create a "program files" and "documents and
    settings" hierarchy to test if that's the culprit.
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #17
  18. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:09:05 +0200, Marcin wrote:

    > there are no separately EXIF file,
    > try use it with other file,


    I THINK I FOUND THE PROBLEM.

    It wasn't that my hierarchy was organized and different from the idiocy
    that Microsoft promulgates - it seems that the IR program expects the
    "File" "Open" command to find the photograph to be in the same directory in
    which the IR executable resides!

    On a hunch, I copied my test photos into the directory in which IR resides
    and lo and behold, the Exif data was viewable (using the sequence stated
    prior) and editable. It's a bit inconvenient, but it works.

    Woo hoo! Thank you!

    Unfortunately only the "OwnerName", "ImageType", "Make", "Model",
    "FirmwareVer", ImageNumber, Orientation, MeteringMode, LightSource,
    WhiteBalance, and ExposureMode were updatable.

    But extensive Exif information was displayed (see below).
    Unfortunately, I tried changing the Exif information and it didn't take so
    I must have missed a hidden save step somewhere. There is a button on the
    English version of the change Exif form saying "Zapiusuj tekstowe
    informacje (testowe!)" which I didn't hit (fearing the nuclear missiles
    would be launched).

    Do I need to check the "Zapiusuj tekstowe informacje (testowe!)" button in
    order for the Exif changes to be written to disk?


    General Information:

    File Name: test2.jpg
    File Size: 1416k
    File Date: 7/9/2007
    Photo Date: 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    Make (Model): Canon (Canon PowerShot S1 IS)
    Dimensions: 2048 x 1536
    Exposure Time: 1/60 sec
    Focal Length: 5.80 mm
    FNumber: F2.8
    Flash: Yes

    Orientation: Normal
    OwnerName: ""
    ImageType: "IMG:powerShot S1 IS JPEG"
    FirmwareVersion: "Firmware Version 1.03"
    ImageNumber: 1000019
    ExposureTime: 1/60 sec
    FNumber: F2.8
    ExifVersion: "0220"
    DateTimeOriginal: 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    DateTimeDigitized: 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    ExposureMode: Auto
    ExposureBiasValue: 0/3
    MeteringMode: MultiSegment
    WhiteBalance: Auto
    Flash: On, auto mode, red-eye reduction
    FocalLength: 5.80 mm
    FlashPixVersion: "0100"
    ColorSpace: sRGB
    ExifImageWidth: 2048
    ExifImageLength: 1536
    DateTime: 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    XResolution: 180.00
    YResolution: 180.00
    ResolutionUnit: Inch
    Make: Canon
    Model: Canon PowerShot S1 IS
    ExifOffset: 196


    ____ EXIF DATA ______________

    Make = Canon
    Model = Canon PowerShot S1 IS
    Orientation = Normal
    XResolution = 180.00
    YResolution = 180.00
    Resolution Unit = Inch
    Date Time = 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    YCb Cr Positioning = Centered
    Exif Offset = 196
    Exposure Time = 1/60 sec
    FNumber = F2.8
    Exif Version = "0220"
    Date Time Original = 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    Date Time Digitized = 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    Components Configuration = YCbCr
    Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 5/1
    Shutter Speed Value = 0.0167 sec (1/60)
    Aperture Value = F3.0
    Exposure Bias Value = 0/3
    Max Aperture Value = F3.0
    Metering Mode = MultiSegment
    Flash = On, auto mode, red-eye reduction
    Focal Length = 5.80 mm
    Maker Note = "."
    User Comment =
    Flash Pix Version = "0100"
    Color Space = sRGB
    Exif Image Width = 2048
    Exif Image Length = 1536
    Interoperability Offset = 2036
    Interoperability Index = R98
    Interoperability Version = "0100"
    Related Image Width = 2048
    Related Image Height = 1536
    Focal Plane XResolution = 2048000/208
    Focal Plane YResolution = 1536000/156
    Focal Plane Resolution Unit = Inch
    Sensing Method = OneChipColorArea
    File Source = "."
    Custom Rendered = Normal process
    Exposure Mode = Auto
    White Balance = Auto
    Digital Zoom Ratio = 2048/2048
    Scene Capture Type = Standard
    Focal Length in 35mm Film = 38.00
    Intel Byte Order
    Make = Canon
    Model = Canon PowerShot S1 IS
    Orientation = Normal
    XResolution = 180.00
    YResolution = 180.00
    Resolution Unit = Inch
    Date Time = 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    YCb Cr Positioning = Centered
    Exposure Time = 1/60 sec
    FNumber = F2.8
    Exif Version = "0220"
    Date Time Original = 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    Date Time Digitized = 2007:06:17 19:51:17
    Components Configuration = YCbCr
    Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 5/1
    Shutter Speed Value = 0.0167 sec (1/60)
    Aperture Value = F3.0
    Exposure Bias Value = 0/3
    Max Aperture Value = F3.0
    Metering Mode = MultiSegment
    Flash = On, auto mode, red-eye reduction
    Focal Length = 5.80 mm
    Maker Note = "."
    User Comment = "live for photography"
    Flash Pix Version = "0100"
    Color Space = sRGB
    Exif Image Width = 2048
    Exif Image Length = 1536
    Interoperability Index = R98
    Interoperability Version = "0100"
    Related Image Width = 2048
    Related Image Height = 1536
    Interoperability Offset = 2036
    Focal Plane XResolution = 2048000/208
    Focal Plane YResolution = 1536000/156
    Focal Plane Resolution Unit = Inch
    Sensing Method = OneChipColorArea
    File Source = "."
    Custom Rendered = Normal process
    Exposure Mode = Auto
    White Balance = Auto
    Digital Zoom Ratio = 2048/2048
    Scene Capture Type = Standard
    Exif Offset = 196
    Focal Length in 35mm Film = 38.00



    _____ Maker Specific Data _____

    Macro mode = Normal
    Self Timer = 2
    Compression Rate = SuperFine
    Flash Mode = Auto+red-eye
    Drive Mode = Single
    Focus Mode = Single
    ExposureInfo1 = 92, 2, 0, 5, 5, 0, 0, 4
    White balance = Auto
    ExposureInfo2 = 68, 32, 128, 53, 95, 189, 0, 0
    Unknown = 1, 1, 2048, 1536, 632, 436, 114, 78
    Unknown = 0, 0, 0, 0
    ImageType = "IMG:powerShot S1 IS JPEG"
    FirmwareVersion = "Firmware Version 1.02"
    ImageNumber = 1000019
    OwnerName = ""
    Unknown = 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
    Unknown = 1
    Macro mode = Normal
    Self Timer = 2
    Compression Rate = SuperFine
    Flash Mode = Auto+red-eye
    Drive Mode = Single
    Focus Mode = Single
    ExposureInfo1 = 92, 2, 0, 5, 5, 0, 0, 4
    White balance = Auto
    ExposureInfo2 = 68, 32, 128, 53, 95, 189, 0, 0
    ImageType = "IMG:powerShot S1 IS JPEG"
    FirmwareVersion = "Firmware Version 1.02"
    ImageNumber = 1000019
    OwnerName = ""

    ___ Thumbnail Data ______
    Thumbnail Start = 1021
    Thumbnail Length = 9643

    Compression = Jpeg
    XResolution = 180.00
    YResolution = 180.00
    Resolution Unit = Inch
    JPEGInterchange Format = 5108
    JPEGInterchange Format Length = 6584
    Compression = Jpeg
    XResolution = 180.00
    YResolution = 180.00
    Resolution Unit = Inch
    JPEGInterchange Format = 5108
    JPEGInterchange Format Length = 6584
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #18
  19. Crusader

    Crusader Guest

    > (Sorry, I forgot to edit the original out of that last post).
    > Here is just the post without the original message at the top.


    Wierd. Very wierd. I tried with photographs taken both with Nikon and Canon
    cameras. Irfanview shows extensive Exif fields for both. I must be doing
    something wrong if you see Exif data and I don't.

    Let's see if we're both doing the same thing.
    a. I'm on Windows XP SP2
    b. I unpacked the zip file from http://semland.com/ir/#download
    c. It contained a single exe file which I moved to
    "c:\software\photo editors\polish_image_resizer"
    d. I made a shortcut and put that in my start menu at
    "Start -> software -> photo editors -> polish image resizer"
    e. Clicking on that shortcut brings up IR version 0.9g build 220905.13
    f. I selected English by pressing "OPCJE" -> "JEZYK" -> English
    g. I select a photo by pressing "File" -> "Open" -> "photo.jpg"
    where the photo is stored in "c:\photos\testphoto\photo.jpg"
    h. I select File -> Other Functions -> Change EXIF
    and I get the error:
    General Information:
    ____ EXIF DATA ______________
    ErrStr = Not an EXIF file

    I'll run some more tests but I did test both Canon and Nikon photos.
    One problem I've seen is some programs have hard-coded paths in them so
    they can't work on a system where there is none of those silly
    Microsoftisms such as a ridiculously flat "c:\program files" directory and
    no confusingly organized "c:\Documents and Settings" directory.

    Usually the only ones that have problems with a well organized computer are
    the Microsoft programs but I'll create a "program files" and "documents and
    settings" hierarchy to test if that's the culprit.
     
    Crusader, Jul 9, 2007
    #19
  20. Crusader

    Susan Bugher Guest

    Crusader wrote:
    > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:31:24 +0200, Marcin wrote:


    > Despite the fact the photo has extensive Exif data, this Polish Image
    > Resizer is apparently looking for an Exif file??? What is an Exif file?
    >
    > I looked up in Wikipedia for what an Exif file is, but only find that the
    > capitalization is Exif and not EXIF.


    That's a *tiny* bit harsh. ;) (There's lots of info there.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exif
    "The Exif specification is currently not officially maintained because
    there is no public entity or people officially behind Exif."

    howsomeever. . . EXIF.org has some specifications

    http://www.exif.org/specifications.html

    <q>
    EXIF 2.1 Specification by JEITA, June 1998.
    http://www.exif.org/Exif2-1.PDF

    EXIF 2.2 Specification by JEITA, April 2002.
    Although in English, this requires Japanese fonts to be installed
    (Acrobat 6.0 should do this for you this automatically).
    http://www.exif.org/Exif2-2.PDF

    DCF Design rule for Camera File system. Specification by JEITA, December
    1998.
    http://www.exif.org/dcf.PDF

    EXIF 2.1(DCF Version) Specification by JEITA, last revised December 1998.
    http://www.exif.org/dcf-exif.PDF

    TIFF 6.0 Specification from Adobe.
    http://www.exif.org/TIFF6.pdf

    MakerNote Specifications
    Sanyo MakerNote
    Description of MakerNote used in Sanyo (plus Olympus and so on) cameras.
    http://www.exif.org/makernotes/SanyoMakerNote.html
    </q>

    That's not a complete list of the formats used in digital cameras. My
    old Canon uses the CIFF format to store info.

    Susan
    --
    Posted to alt.comp.freeware
    Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
    http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q= group:alt.comp.freeware
    Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
    Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
     
    Susan Bugher, Jul 9, 2007
    #20
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