Windows backup skipping files

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by darkknight, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. darkknight

    darkknight Guest

    Using Win XP pro with all updates.

    I've created a backup of my C drive using ntbackup. It reported that
    a couple of files had errors and couldn't be backed up - including
    hsfdpsp2.sys in system32/drivers. Norton ghost V9 refused to backup C
    drive because of disk errors. Today I ran chkdsk and it managed to
    fix the errors (including hsfdpsp2.sys), after which Norton ghost
    successfully created a C drive image.

    I then ran ntbackup again using "incremental mode" after which I
    checked in the backup.bkf file (using the restore tab in the backup
    tool) and found that the system32/drivers folder had only about 30 or
    so files in it, whereas on the actual C drive system32/drivers folder
    there are 317 objects (315 files). Dozens of files still have the
    archive attribute set. Any idea why so many of these files are
    missing from backup.bkf - the list of excluded files (in ntbackup
    options) doesn't include anything in this folder.

    TIA.


    P.S. I've uninstalled norton ghost V9 after finding that at system
    startup it does some "disk scanning", tying up my system for several
    minutes and with no option to disable it and no explanation in the
    help file about why it's doing disk scanning, as well as installing a
    "service" I don't want 99.999% of the time!
     
    darkknight, Sep 12, 2007
    #1
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  2. darkknight

    Max Burke Guest

    In news: darkknight Scribbled:
    > Using Win XP pro with all updates.
    >
    > I've created a backup of my C drive using ntbackup. It reported that
    > a couple of files had errors and couldn't be backed up - including
    > hsfdpsp2.sys in system32/drivers. Norton ghost V9 refused to backup C
    > drive because of disk errors. Today I ran chkdsk and it managed to
    > fix the errors (including hsfdpsp2.sys), after which Norton ghost
    > successfully created a C drive image.
    >
    > I then ran ntbackup again using "incremental mode" after which I
    > checked in the backup.bkf file (using the restore tab in the backup
    > tool) and found that the system32/drivers folder had only about 30 or
    > so files in it, whereas on the actual C drive system32/drivers folder
    > there are 317 objects (315 files). Dozens of files still have the
    > archive attribute set. Any idea why so many of these files are
    > missing from backup.bkf - the list of excluded files (in ntbackup
    > options) doesn't include anything in this folder.


    Did you turn on Shadow Copy in NTbackup? If you dont use shadow copy then
    it will skip in use and some system files when running.
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/104169

    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Sep 12, 2007
    #2
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  3. darkknight

    darkknight Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:15:05 +1200, "Max Burke"
    <> wrote:

    >In news: darkknight Scribbled:
    >> Using Win XP pro with all updates.
    >>
    >> I've created a backup of my C drive using ntbackup. It reported that
    >> a couple of files had errors and couldn't be backed up - including
    >> hsfdpsp2.sys in system32/drivers. Norton ghost V9 refused to backup C
    >> drive because of disk errors. Today I ran chkdsk and it managed to
    >> fix the errors (including hsfdpsp2.sys), after which Norton ghost
    >> successfully created a C drive image.
    >>
    >> I then ran ntbackup again using "incremental mode" after which I
    >> checked in the backup.bkf file (using the restore tab in the backup
    >> tool) and found that the system32/drivers folder had only about 30 or
    >> so files in it, whereas on the actual C drive system32/drivers folder
    >> there are 317 objects (315 files). Dozens of files still have the
    >> archive attribute set. Any idea why so many of these files are
    >> missing from backup.bkf - the list of excluded files (in ntbackup
    >> options) doesn't include anything in this folder.

    >
    >Did you turn on Shadow Copy in NTbackup? If you dont use shadow copy then
    >it will skip in use and some system files when running.
    >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/104169



    Yep, shadow copy is enabled by default and I never disabled it. The
    log file indicates a shadow copy was done.
     
    darkknight, Sep 12, 2007
    #3
  4. darkknight

    Geoff Guest

    darkknight wrote:
    > Using Win XP pro with all updates.
    >
    > I've created a backup of my C drive using ntbackup. It reported that
    > a couple of files had errors and couldn't be backed up - including
    > hsfdpsp2.sys in system32/drivers. Norton ghost V9 refused to backup C
    > drive because of disk errors. Today I ran chkdsk and it managed to
    > fix the errors (including hsfdpsp2.sys), after which Norton ghost
    > successfully created a C drive image.
    >
    > I then ran ntbackup again using "incremental mode" after which I
    > checked in the backup.bkf file (using the restore tab in the backup



    Um. 'Backups' are for user data files, not program and OS files.

    Sounds like you really want a product like Norton Ghost , to take a
    restorable image of your whole hard disk.

    geoff
     
    Geoff, Sep 13, 2007
    #4
  5. darkknight

    darkknight Guest

    On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:07:07 +1200, "Geoff" <>
    wrote:

    >darkknight wrote:
    >> Using Win XP pro with all updates.
    >>
    >> I've created a backup of my C drive using ntbackup. It reported that
    >> a couple of files had errors and couldn't be backed up - including
    >> hsfdpsp2.sys in system32/drivers. Norton ghost V9 refused to backup C
    >> drive because of disk errors. Today I ran chkdsk and it managed to
    >> fix the errors (including hsfdpsp2.sys), after which Norton ghost
    >> successfully created a C drive image.
    >>
    >> I then ran ntbackup again using "incremental mode" after which I
    >> checked in the backup.bkf file (using the restore tab in the backup

    >
    >
    >Um. 'Backups' are for user data files, not program and OS files.
    >


    Yeah, that occurred to me but you might want to restore a
    system/program file that's been corrupted - how do you do that on
    Windows other than by reinstalling the entire O.S. or specific
    application? A five minute look in "Windows help and support" didn't
    find me anything. Somehow, windows file system checker managed to fix
    the 3 currupt files I had.

    Also, why did 50 files from system32/drivers get backed up and not the
    other 250 - I see nothing special about the ones that got backed up.
     
    darkknight, Sep 13, 2007
    #5
  6. darkknight

    Geoff Guest

    darkknight wrote:

    > Yeah, that occurred to me but you might want to restore a
    > system/program file that's been corrupted - how do you do that on
    > Windows other than by reinstalling the entire O.S. or specific
    > application? A five minute look in "Windows help and support" didn't
    > find me anything. Somehow, windows file system checker managed to fix
    > the 3 currupt files I had.


    If you are getting corrupted system files then fix whatever is corrupting
    them. It is not usualy. Else use SFC
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310747 . If things are really stuffed, then
    a Repair Install.

    If an application file gets corrupted (again not usual) reinstall the app.

    >
    > Also, why did 50 files from system32/drivers get backed up and not the
    > other 250 - I see nothing special about the ones that got backed up.


    The others were open files ?

    geoff
     
    Geoff, Sep 13, 2007
    #6
  7. In message <>, darkknight wrote:

    > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:07:07 +1200, "Geoff" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Um. 'Backups' are for user data files, not program and OS files.

    >
    > Yeah, that occurred to me but you might want to restore a
    > system/program file that's been corrupted - how do you do that on
    > Windows other than by reinstalling the entire O.S. or specific
    > application?


    You have to reinstall. Note that backing up your Windows installation is a
    violation of the EULA.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 13, 2007
    #7
  8. darkknight

    Greg House Guest

    On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:12:35 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    >In message <>, darkknight wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:07:07 +1200, "Geoff" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Um. 'Backups' are for user data files, not program and OS files.

    >>
    >> Yeah, that occurred to me but you might want to restore a
    >> system/program file that's been corrupted - how do you do that on
    >> Windows other than by reinstalling the entire O.S. or specific
    >> application?

    >
    >You have to reinstall. Note that backing up your Windows installation is a
    >violation of the EULA.




    Utter Crap that Law in not for NZ...



    Put here by a Mad Lunix Idiot..
     
    Greg House, Sep 13, 2007
    #8
  9. In message <>, Greg House
    < wrote:

    > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:12:35 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    > <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >>In message <>, darkknight wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:07:07 +1200, "Geoff" <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Um. 'Backups' are for user data files, not program and OS files.
    >>>
    >>> Yeah, that occurred to me but you might want to restore a
    >>> system/program file that's been corrupted - how do you do that on
    >>> Windows other than by reinstalling the entire O.S. or specific
    >>> application?

    >>
    >>You have to reinstall. Note that backing up your Windows installation is a
    >>violation of the EULA.

    >
    > Utter Crap that Law in not for NZ...


    The EULA is not a law, it's a licence agreement. It's something you agreed
    to, as a user of the software. Therefore it applies to you.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 14, 2007
    #9
  10. darkknight

    impossible Guest

    "darkknight" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:07:07 +1200, "Geoff" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>darkknight wrote:
    >>> Using Win XP pro with all updates.
    >>>
    >>> I've created a backup of my C drive using ntbackup. It reported that
    >>> a couple of files had errors and couldn't be backed up - including
    >>> hsfdpsp2.sys in system32/drivers. Norton ghost V9 refused to backup C
    >>> drive because of disk errors. Today I ran chkdsk and it managed to
    >>> fix the errors (including hsfdpsp2.sys), after which Norton ghost
    >>> successfully created a C drive image.
    >>>
    >>> I then ran ntbackup again using "incremental mode" after which I
    >>> checked in the backup.bkf file (using the restore tab in the backup

    >>
    >>
    >>Um. 'Backups' are for user data files, not program and OS files.
    >>

    >
    > Yeah, that occurred to me but you might want to restore a
    > system/program file that's been corrupted - how do you do that on
    > Windows other than by reinstalling the entire O.S. or specific
    > application? A five minute look in "Windows help and support" didn't
    > find me anything.


    Replacing a corrupted system file in XP is not as simple as you think, and
    it's really much better if you don't strategize your backups to accomplish
    this yourself. First of all, because it's going to be difficult for any user
    to hone in on exactly where the trouble lies. How do you know the x.dll is
    corrupted and not the y.dll? Or both? Or something altogether different that
    you hadn't thought of? And how do you distinguish between a corrupted file
    and a corrupted registry entry that makes the file unusable? Sometimes you
    can get very a very detailed fix for special problems spelled out for you in
    MS Knowledgebase article, including both a file fix and a registry fix, but
    you'll notice that these fixes almost invariably start with the restoration
    of a file **from the original installation disk** rather than from a backup.
    Why? Because there's no telling whether the backed up version of the file is
    valid or not. These files then need to be registered , usually by just
    running regserver, but possibly augmented with a simple script that sets
    other registry keys.

    As a standard maintenance procedure, you can always run the System File
    Checker utiltiy to confirm that all your key system installation files are
    intact -- SFC will restore fresh copies of any files that are bad and
    register them properly. And if your applications have a "detect and repair"
    function (like most Adobe and Microsoft products do) then this is a great
    way to cure a mysterious glitch that you'd have no shot of troubleshooting
    on your own. But disk image backups are really your best overall protection
    against system and application foul-ups (Microsoft itself recommends this),
    because then you always have a known working backup that includes not only
    the individual files you *think** might be problematic but the entire
    network of files and registry enties that can be broken in subtle ways by
    badly behaving applications, power outages, and so on. That's why I keep
    recommending that you get your hands on something like Seagate Disk Wizxard
    (free) or Symantec Ghosat 12 or Acronis True Image 10, any of which will
    handle this chore for you very nicely.
     
    impossible, Sep 14, 2007
    #10
  11. In message <F6lGi.83936$Xa3.58284@attbi_s22>, impossible wrote:

    > Replacing a corrupted system file in XP is not as simple as you think...


    Why not?

    > How do you know the x.dll is corrupted and not the y.dll? Or both?


    Surely you just restore both, and that should fix it regardless, shouldn't
    it?

    > And how do you distinguish between a
    > corrupted file and a corrupted registry entry that makes the file
    > unusable?


    Again, if you restore both, that should cure the problem in any case. Or
    doesn't it?

    > ... you'll notice that these fixes almost
    > invariably start with the restoration of a file **from the original
    > installation disk** rather than from a backup. Why? Because there's no
    > telling whether the backed up version of the file is valid or not.


    Can't the backup software be trusted to do its job?

    > These files then need to be registered , usually by just running
    > regserver, but possibly augmented with a simple script that sets other
    > registry keys.


    Surely if you restore the backed up registry keys, wouldn't that restore the
    correct registration state of those files?

    I mean, what are you saying--that it's impossible to do a simple backup and
    restore of a Dimdows system?

    > As a standard maintenance procedure, you can always run the System File
    > Checker utiltiy to confirm that all your key system installation files are
    > intact -- SFC will restore fresh copies of any files that are bad and
    > register them properly. And if your applications have a "detect and
    > repair" function (like most Adobe and Microsoft products do) then this is
    > a great way to cure a mysterious glitch that you'd have no shot of
    > troubleshooting on your own.


    Is there no standardized package-management system, complete with basic
    verification of installed files against recorded hash digests? Does every
    package developer have to reinvent this function themselves?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 14, 2007
    #11
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