Windows 7 Starter Edition Limitations

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. How many apps can you really run at once?

    <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=4074>
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 1, 2009
    #1
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  2. On Apr 1, 1:42 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > How many apps can you really run at once?
    >
    > <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=4074>


    I don't normally like to comment on these snips, but after reading the
    article I have to agree that it is a singularly stupid innovation. I
    mean, really, It sounds like shareware.
     
    Hamish Campbell, Apr 1, 2009
    #2
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  3. In message <>, Hamish Campbell wrote:

    > On Apr 1, 1:42 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> How many apps can you really run at once?
    >>
    >> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=4074>

    >
    > ... I have to agree that it is a singularly stupid innovation.


    You know why Microsoft is doing Starter Edition? It's all about netbooks.
    They've been offering cut-price XP on that for the last year and a bit,
    but that can't last, if only because it's hurting Microsoft's profits.

    Seven Starter Edition will be the cut-price successor to XP on netbooks. On
    its own it won't improve Microsoft's profitability any, but you will have an
    "instant upgrade" option
    <http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/579/1051579/windows-instant-upgrade-option>,
    and Microsoft is hoping that you'll be willing to pay to ease the pain of
    Starter Edition's restrictions.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 1, 2009
    #3
  4. > If there is a market for it, people will buy it. So long as the limitation
    > is obvious at the time of purchase, I don't see a problem. I personally
    > wouldn't have a bar of software with such limitations, but I wouldn't seek
    > to limit someone else's choice in the matter.


    On the face of it, sure, but the '3 application' limit directly
    impacts on it's singular purpose of 'running applications'. Can you
    still call it a full product release?

    Also, how many times have I been at Dick Smiths listening to some
    sales guy pitching the latest graphics card and 1TB hard disk to
    someone who just want to send emails and play solitaire? Not everyone
    is an informed consumer. Of course people looking for cheap computers
    will go for the cheap OS.. and many people are going to be surprised
    at what they get. Their own fault? Maybe it is... but it's definitely
    poor form on M$'s part.
     
    Hamish Campbell, Apr 1, 2009
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    "Hamish Campbell" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I don't normally like to comment on these snips, but after reading the
    > article I have to agree that it is a singularly stupid innovation. I
    > mean, really, It sounds like shareware.


    Browsing and email, maybe run a little music in the background..... What
    else is there to do (well) with an entry-level netbook? At a US$199
    price-point, running those 3 apps and no more will suit a lot of people just
    fine. Come Christmas, they'll be flying off the shelves. Meanwhile, the bulk
    of the netbook market is headed upscale -- bigger screens, faster
    processors, more memory and storage -- so it's a win-win situation for
    Microsoft.
     
    impossible, Apr 1, 2009
    #5
  6. In message <753ef9f9-2374-4e30-803e-
    >, Hamish Campbell wrote:

    > Also, how many times have I been at Dick Smiths listening to some
    > sales guy pitching the latest graphics card and 1TB hard disk to
    > someone who just want to send emails and play solitaire? Not everyone
    > is an informed consumer.


    Oh, they're getting informed, all right. That's why netbooks are the only
    segment of the PC market showing any growth at the moment.

    > Of course people looking for cheap computers will go for the cheap OS..


    And if Microsoft tries to boots its sagging profit margins and push up the
    price disparity, that just makes Linux look more attractive.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 1, 2009
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    "Hamish Campbell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> If there is a market for it, people will buy it. So long as the
    >> limitation
    >> is obvious at the time of purchase, I don't see a problem. I personally
    >> wouldn't have a bar of software with such limitations, but I wouldn't
    >> seek
    >> to limit someone else's choice in the matter.

    >
    > On the face of it, sure, but the '3 application' limit directly
    > impacts on it's singular purpose of 'running applications'. Can you
    > still call it a full product release?
    >


    No, but....hmmm...maybe that's why they call it the "Starter Edition".

    > Also, how many times have I been at Dick Smiths listening to some
    > sales guy pitching the latest graphics card and 1TB hard disk to
    > someone who just want to send emails and play solitaire? Not everyone
    > is an informed consumer. Of course people looking for cheap computers
    > will go for the cheap OS.. and many people are going to be surprised
    > at what they get. Their own fault? Maybe it is... but it's definitely
    > poor form on M$'s part.


    Nah. The oems want Windows -- they can hardly move any machines without
    it -- so it's all down to royalty costs. Microsoft is going to help them
    reach the sub-US$199 netbook price-point that oems crave, but with a Starter
    Edition of Windows 7 that clearly signals the limitations of those machines.
    Oems who want to tap into the growing market for more upscale netbook and
    notebook models will have to pay Microsoft significantly bigger royalties
    for versions of Windows 7 that can accomodate those customers, and that's
    what Microsoft is really counting on.
     
    impossible, Apr 1, 2009
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    oneofus Guest

    Allistar wrote:
    > Hamish Campbell wrote:
    >
    >>> If there is a market for it, people will buy it. So long as the
    >>> limitation is obvious at the time of purchase, I don't see a problem. I
    >>> personally wouldn't have a bar of software with such limitations, but I
    >>> wouldn't seek to limit someone else's choice in the matter.

    >> On the face of it, sure, but the '3 application' limit directly
    >> impacts on it's singular purpose of 'running applications'. Can you
    >> still call it a full product release?

    >
    > Given that the limitation is publicised, yes. I think you can.
    >
    >> Also, how many times have I been at Dick Smiths listening to some
    >> sales guy pitching the latest graphics card and 1TB hard disk to
    >> someone who just want to send emails and play solitaire? Not everyone
    >> is an informed consumer.

    >
    > That is not a fault of companies that explain their products' limitations.
    > It's a fault of the consumer, and partly the reseller.
    >
    >> Of course people looking for cheap computers
    >> will go for the cheap OS.. and many people are going to be surprised
    >> at what they get. Their own fault? Maybe it is... but it's definitely
    >> poor form on M$'s part.

    >
    > If MS were intentionally misleading anyone I would agree. But I don't think
    > they are in this case.


    I guess we'll see if they offer a paid upgrade version or not.
     
    oneofus, Apr 1, 2009
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Murray Symon Guest

    Bret wrote:

    > On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:09:32 +1300, Allistar wrote:
    >
    >> Hamish Campbell wrote:
    >>
    >>>> If there is a market for it, people will buy it. So long as the
    >>>> limitation is obvious at the time of purchase, I don't see a problem. I
    >>>> personally wouldn't have a bar of software with such limitations, but I
    >>>> wouldn't seek to limit someone else's choice in the matter.
    >>>
    >>> On the face of it, sure, but the '3 application' limit directly
    >>> impacts on it's singular purpose of 'running applications'. Can you
    >>> still call it a full product release?

    >>
    >> Given that the limitation is publicised, yes. I think you can.
    >>
    >>> Also, how many times have I been at Dick Smiths listening to some
    >>> sales guy pitching the latest graphics card and 1TB hard disk to
    >>> someone who just want to send emails and play solitaire? Not everyone
    >>> is an informed consumer.

    >>
    >> That is not a fault of companies that explain their products'
    >> limitations. It's a fault of the consumer, and partly the reseller.
    >>
    >>> Of course people looking for cheap computers
    >>> will go for the cheap OS.. and many people are going to be surprised
    >>> at what they get. Their own fault? Maybe it is... but it's definitely
    >>> poor form on M$'s part.

    >>
    >> If MS were intentionally misleading anyone I would agree. But I don't
    >> think they are in this case.

    >
    > I can see a lot of CGA returns ie: Not fit for the intended purpose.


    I think this was happening with the basic version of "Vista Home", too.
    People bought the cheap version and then took it back when it didn't
    meet their expectations (which had been elevated by marketing hype).

    Murray.
     
    Murray Symon, Apr 1, 2009
    #9
  10. > I can see a lot of CGA returns ie: Not fit for the intended purpose.

    Agreed.

    > Well, they should research their purchases better.


    You shouldn't have to investigate something like "will it be able to
    run more than 3 applications at once?". There are plenty of computer
    users who would need the word 'application' defined before they could
    start to make sense of the sentence.

    Imagine if they did that with new cars - rev limited 'starter edition'
    at 4,000 rpm, with the option to upgrade to the 'professional'
    version.

    > If MS were intentionally misleading anyone I would agree.
    > But I don't think they are in this case.


    I don't think they're trying to be misleading, nevertheless, I think a
    lot of people will be mislead.

    Anywho, I guess we'll wait and see if they actually follow through.
     
    Hamish Campbell, Apr 1, 2009
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Alan Guest

    "Hamish Campbell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> I can see a lot of CGA returns ie: Not fit for the intended
    >> purpose.


    >
    > Imagine if they did that with new cars - rev limited 'starter
    > edition'
    > at 4,000 rpm, with the option to upgrade to the 'professional'
    > version.
    >


    If we are going for analogies, then perhaps it would be better to say:

    "Imagine if they did that with new cars - speed limited 'starter
    edition' at 110 kph, with the option to upgrade to the 'professional'
    version that will go up to 220 kph".

    Alan.

    --

    The views expressed are my own, not those of my employer or others.
    My unmunged email is: (valid for 30 days
    min). The following is a probably unique, meaningless string you can
    use to find my posts in search engines: ewygchvboocno43vb674b6nq46tvb
     
    Alan, Apr 1, 2009
    #11
  12. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    "Hamish Campbell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> I can see a lot of CGA returns ie: Not fit for the intended purpose.

    >
    > Agreed.
    >


    Only if the dealer misrepresents the intended purpose of a cheaply
    configured netbook running a "Starter Edition" os.


    >> Well, they should research their purchases better.

    >
    > You shouldn't have to investigate something like "will it be able to
    > run more than 3 applications at once?". There are plenty of computer
    > users who would need the word 'application' defined before they could
    > start to make sense of the sentence.
    >


    The CGA doesn't shield someone from wanton carelessness. Those who are
    ignorant about they are buying should get help. Full stop.

    > Imagine if they did that with new cars - rev limited 'starter edition'
    > at 4,000 rpm, with the option to upgrade to the 'professional'
    > version.
    >


    Imagine if they did that with other software! Oh, wait...they do.

    http://quicken.intuit.com/personal-finance/starter-edition-personal-budget.jsp
    http://www.symantec.com/business/network-access-control-starter-edition
    http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopalbum/starter.html


    >> If MS were intentionally misleading anyone I would agree.
    >> But I don't think they are in this case.

    >
    > I don't think they're trying to be misleading, nevertheless, I think a
    > lot of people will be mislead.
    >


    Like those people who bought cheap Linux-based netbooks, only to discover
    that it wasn't a snap to learn an entirely different os after all. Yes,
    these things happen.

    > Anywho, I guess we'll wait and see if they actually follow through.
     
    impossible, Apr 2, 2009
    #12
  13. > Imagine if they did that with other software! Oh, wait...they do.
    >
    > http://quicken.intuit.com/personal-...dobe.com/products/photoshopalbum/starter.html


    In all of those examples, the product has its core features intact and
    you pay to get more features and tools.

    Interestingly, the *free* Adobe has this to say: "Photoshop Album
    Starter Edition 3.2 is not a time-limited or photo-limited download.
    It provides basic functionality to get you started editing and sharing
    your photos."

    The Win7 Starter Edition equivalent would have to say something like
    "This is an application-limited operating system."

    > Like those people who bought cheap Linux-based netbooks.


    No, not at all. Sayings about gift horses come to mind.

    I'll stop going on about it now. At the least, I think we can agree
    that it is a dumb idea, regardless of whether they can sell it.
     
    Hamish Campbell, Apr 2, 2009
    #13
  14. In message <gqv530$9bk$>, oneofus wrote:

    > I guess we'll see if they offer a paid upgrade version or not.


    They will <http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/579/1051579/windows-instant-upgrade-option>.

    Another suggestion for trying to get customers to pay full price for full-functional Windows without realizing it is a subsidy deal
    <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/windows_7/windows_starter_is_a_non-starter_on_netbooks.html>.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 2, 2009
    #14
  15. In article <gr1820$8qo$>, "~misfit~" <> wrote:
    >Somewhere on teh intarwebs Alan wrote:
    >> "Hamish Campbell" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>> I can see a lot of CGA returns ie: Not fit for the intended
    >>>> purpose.
    >>> Imagine if they did that with new cars - rev limited 'starter
    >>> edition'
    >>> at 4,000 rpm, with the option to upgrade to the 'professional'
    >>> version.

    >> If we are going for analogies, then perhaps it would be better to say:
    >>
    >> "Imagine if they did that with new cars - speed limited 'starter
    >> edition' at 110 kph, with the option to upgrade to the 'professional'
    >> version that will go up to 220 kph".

    >
    >I prefer: Starter Edition limited to the first three gears, with the option
    >to upgrade to the fourth and then again fifth gears.


    :)

    That reminded me of that fine cartoon of the calculator salesman saying
    something like ...

    but it's able to do square root and sin ... that more than makes up for the
    lack of the numbers 8 and 9 !

    Thanks :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Apr 2, 2009
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    "Hamish Campbell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> Imagine if they did that with other software! Oh, wait...they do.
    >>
    >> http://quicken.intuit.com/personal-...dobe.com/products/photoshopalbum/starter.html

    >
    > In all of those examples, the product has its core features intact and
    > you pay to get more features and tools.
    >


    Same with Windows.

    > Interestingly, the *free* Adobe has this to say: "Photoshop Album
    > Starter Edition 3.2 is not a time-limited or photo-limited download.
    > It provides basic functionality to get you started editing and sharing
    > your photos."
    >


    Same with Windows.

    > The Win7 Starter Edition equivalent would have to say something like
    > "This is an application-limited operating system."
    >


    As with the other software, which is why you call it a "Starter Edition".

    >>>> If MS were intentionally misleading anyone I would agree.
    >>>> But I don't think they are in this case.
    >>>


    >> I don't think they're trying to be misleading, nevertheless, I think a
    >> lot of people will be mislead.
    >>


    >> Like those people who bought cheap Linux-based netbooks, only to discover
    >> that it wasn't a snap to learn an entirely different os after all. Yes,
    >> these things happen.


    >
    > No, not at all. Sayings about gift horses come to mind.
    >


    Sayings about getting what you pay for come to mind.
     
    impossible, Apr 3, 2009
    #16
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