Win16 and Dos16 programs on x64

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Lynn McGuire, Nov 17, 2005.

  1. Lynn McGuire

    Lynn McGuire Guest

    Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?

    I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    have the code.

    One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.

    The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    command set that is totally instinctive to me now.

    Thanks,
    Lynn McGuire
     
    Lynn McGuire, Nov 17, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. I don't think you will ever see programs that are 16-bit running natively on
    Windows x64. But there are still ways of getting to use these applications
    on x64 through Virtualization, using legacy operating systems, (VM Ware 5.0
    and 5.5 beta). Virtual Server 2005 Standard $99. And this application DOS
    Box http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

    "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >
    > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    > have the code.
    >
    > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >
    > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Lynn McGuire
    >
    >
     
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Nov 17, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. In a word, no. It won't happen. There are some workarounds, but none that
    will give you all you want. One is to use Virtual Server 2005 R2 (just
    released, the Standard Edition has a retail price of $99 USD) and use it to
    run a version of DOS or Win9x in it. The overhead to do that wouldn't
    actually be all that much, though it would be a bit awkward I suspect.

    DOS Edit you could easily replace with any of a whole raft of editors that
    you would quickly become comfortable with, and that would have more features
    and ease of use in the long run. List is unequaled by anything I've seen. A
    unique and very powerful program.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64

    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >
    > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    > have the code.
    >
    > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >
    > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Lynn McGuire
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Nov 17, 2005
    #3
  4. Lynn McGuire

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Lynn.

    A name from the past!! I used List.com back in MS-DOS days and remember it
    fondly. I haven't heard Vern Buerg's name in years, but I'm glad to see
    he's still hard at work and that List.com is alive and well. Too bad it
    won't be available for WinXP x64 - or Vista x64.

    The older DOS16 program that I miss the most, though, is the Calendar from
    WordPerfect Office Library. Even though I'm multibooting with WinXP x64 and
    both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the Vista beta, my default OS is still
    WinXP x86 - and that Calendar is one of the main reasons.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP

    "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >
    > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    > have the code.
    >
    > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >
    > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Lynn McGuire
     
    R. C. White, Nov 17, 2005
    #4
  5. Lynn McGuire

    roman modic Guest

    Hello!

    "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    >I don't think you will ever see programs that are 16-bit running natively
    >on Windows x64. But there are still ways of getting to use these
    >applications on x64 through Virtualization, using legacy operating systems,
    >(VM Ware 5.0 and 5.5 beta). Virtual Server 2005 Standard $99. And this
    >application DOS Box http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1


    I also recommend DOSBox. Here you can find the latest build:
    http://ykhwong.x-y.net/page.htm

    Cheers, Roman
     
    roman modic, Nov 18, 2005
    #5
  6. Lynn McGuire

    Randy Guest

    Would Total Commander (http://www.ghisler.com) be a possible substitute for
    your needs?

    I've used Directory Freedom forever myself (df.com, by Gordon Haff), but it
    is limited to 16bit too AFAIK, and doesn't "do" anything but FAT16 or FAT32
    at best (DOS GUI). It's still the first thing I put on disks I'm
    troubleshooting or setting up.

    "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >
    > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    > have the code.
    >
    > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >
    > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Lynn McGuire
    >
    >
     
    Randy, Nov 18, 2005
    #6
  7. The OP is wanting to run 16-bit programs on XP x64, not manage them. (That
    will never happen.)

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    "Randy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Would Total Commander (http://www.ghisler.com) be a possible substitute
    > for
    > your needs?
    >
    > I've used Directory Freedom forever myself (df.com, by Gordon Haff), but
    > it
    > is limited to 16bit too AFAIK, and doesn't "do" anything but FAT16 or
    > FAT32
    > at best (DOS GUI). It's still the first thing I put on disks I'm
    > troubleshooting or setting up.
    >
    > "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >>
    >> I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    >> development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    >> have the code.
    >>
    >> One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    >> corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >>
    >> The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    >> for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    >> command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Lynn McGuire
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Nov 23, 2005
    #7
  8. MS will never put an emulation layer for 16-bit programs in XP64 the way
    they have the WOW64 emulation layer for 32-bit software. The omission of
    16-bit support is by design.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >
    > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    > have the code.
    >
    > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >
    > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Lynn McGuire
    >
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Nov 23, 2005
    #8
  9. Lynn McGuire

    Randy Guest

    I use DF.com mostly to view files' ASCII content (as with List)... nice way
    to catch malware.
    I wouldn't really trust using it to rename, move, etc., except on FAT16
    partitions... it doesn't calculate free space correctly, among other
    problems, on newer file systems.

    I'm sure there are better/newer applets that perform the same functions, but
    I'm just used to DF for quickly scanning ASCII content of files that seem to
    appear on my hard drive unannounced from time to time... a lot of malware
    writers like to insert their own "signatures" into their apps, which is
    usually fairly readily found this way.

    For text editing (incl. html), I still use notepad, or wordpad when I need
    to insert graphics or links. I *have* Office 97 through 2003, which I get
    almost free as a professor... I just rarely use any of that. Haven't
    installed any of it beyond Word, Excel, and PPT 2000. Guess I'll be getting
    Office 2006 (or whatever is next up) fairly soon (within a year). Kinda
    pathetic... I teach basics of Word and MSIE using PPT presentations. But I
    was weaned on WordStar and DOS 3, which was a much simpler way of life...
    when I taught a business class basic webpage construction, we used
    Arachnophilia. KISS method. ;~)

    "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The OP is wanting to run 16-bit programs on XP x64, not manage them.

    (That
    > will never happen.)
    >
    > --
    > Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    > (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    > "Randy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Would Total Commander (http://www.ghisler.com) be a possible substitute
    > > for
    > > your needs?
    > >
    > > I've used Directory Freedom forever myself (df.com, by Gordon Haff), but
    > > it
    > > is limited to 16bit too AFAIK, and doesn't "do" anything but FAT16 or
    > > FAT32
    > > at best (DOS GUI). It's still the first thing I put on disks I'm
    > > troubleshooting or setting up.
    > >
    > > "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    > > news:%...
    > >> Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    > >>
    > >> I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    > >> development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    > >> have the code.
    > >>
    > >> One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    > >> corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    > >>
    > >> The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame

    except
    > >> for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    > >> command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    > >>
    > >> Thanks,
    > >> Lynn McGuire
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Randy, Nov 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Lynn McGuire

    Randy Guest

    Kinda the same way ISA et al., serial and parallel ports, and floppy drives
    have been dropped. Things that slow us down and cause crashes have to be
    dropped if we want to proceed technologically. Ditto for operating systems.
    Can't have superior speed and capability without superior reliability and
    robustness.

    "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:O%...
    > MS will never put an emulation layer for 16-bit programs in XP64 the way
    > they have the WOW64 emulation layer for 32-bit software. The omission of
    > 16-bit support is by design.
    >
    > --
    > Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    > (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    > "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    > > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    > >
    > > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    > > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    > > have the code.
    > >
    > > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    > > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    > >
    > > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    > > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    > > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Lynn McGuire
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Randy, Nov 24, 2005
    #10
  11. Perhaps just as important is security. The security features offered by the
    new processors are simply not available to 16-bit software.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    "Randy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Kinda the same way ISA et al., serial and parallel ports, and floppy
    > drives
    > have been dropped. Things that slow us down and cause crashes have to be
    > dropped if we want to proceed technologically. Ditto for operating
    > systems.
    > Can't have superior speed and capability without superior reliability and
    > robustness.
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:O%...
    >> MS will never put an emulation layer for 16-bit programs in XP64 the way
    >> they have the WOW64 emulation layer for 32-bit software. The omission of
    >> 16-bit support is by design.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >> "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >> > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >> >
    >> > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    >> > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    >> > have the code.
    >> >
    >> > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    >> > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >> >
    >> > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame
    >> > except
    >> > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    >> > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >> >
    >> > Thanks,
    >> > Lynn McGuire
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Nov 24, 2005
    #11
  12. Then not run 16-bit apps on top of the WOW64 in its own protected space,
    basically sand box it?
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

    "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Perhaps just as important is security. The security features offered by
    > the new processors are simply not available to 16-bit software.
    >
    > --
    > Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    > (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    > "Randy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Kinda the same way ISA et al., serial and parallel ports, and floppy
    >> drives
    >> have been dropped. Things that slow us down and cause crashes have to be
    >> dropped if we want to proceed technologically. Ditto for operating
    >> systems.
    >> Can't have superior speed and capability without superior reliability and
    >> robustness.
    >>
    >> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    >> news:O%...
    >>> MS will never put an emulation layer for 16-bit programs in XP64 the way
    >>> they have the WOW64 emulation layer for 32-bit software. The omission
    >>> of
    >>> 16-bit support is by design.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >>> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >>> "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:%...
    >>> > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >>> >
    >>> > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    >>> > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    >>> > have the code.
    >>> >
    >>> > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    >>> > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >>> >
    >>> > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame
    >>> > except
    >>> > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    >>> > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >>> >
    >>> > Thanks,
    >>> > Lynn McGuire
    >>> >
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Nov 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Virtualize. Use Virtual Server or VMWare.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Then not run 16-bit apps on top of the WOW64 in its own protected space,
    > basically sand box it?
    > --
    > Andre
    > Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    > Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    > http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    > FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Perhaps just as important is security. The security features offered by
    >> the new processors are simply not available to 16-bit software.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >> "Randy" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Kinda the same way ISA et al., serial and parallel ports, and floppy
    >>> drives
    >>> have been dropped. Things that slow us down and cause crashes have to be
    >>> dropped if we want to proceed technologically. Ditto for operating
    >>> systems.
    >>> Can't have superior speed and capability without superior reliability
    >>> and
    >>> robustness.
    >>>
    >>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:O%...
    >>>> MS will never put an emulation layer for 16-bit programs in XP64 the
    >>>> way
    >>>> they have the WOW64 emulation layer for 32-bit software. The omission
    >>>> of
    >>>> 16-bit support is by design.
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >>>> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >>>> "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:%...
    >>>> > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >>>> >
    >>>> > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    >>>> > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    >>>> > have the code.
    >>>> >
    >>>> > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I
    >>>> > have
    >>>> > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >>>> >
    >>>> > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame
    >>>> > except
    >>>> > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    >>>> > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >>>> >
    >>>> > Thanks,
    >>>> > Lynn McGuire
    >>>> >
    >>>> >
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Nov 25, 2005
    #13
  14. Lynn McGuire

    Lynn McGuire Guest

    "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" <> wrote in message news:...
    > Then not run 16-bit apps on top of the WOW64 in its own protected space, basically sand box it?
    > --
    > Andre
    > Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    > Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    > http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    > FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message news:%...
    >> Perhaps just as important is security. The security features offered by the new processors are simply not available to 16-bit
    >> software.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >> "Randy" <> wrote in message news:...
    >>> Kinda the same way ISA et al., serial and parallel ports, and floppy drives
    >>> have been dropped. Things that slow us down and cause crashes have to be
    >>> dropped if we want to proceed technologically. Ditto for operating systems.
    >>> Can't have superior speed and capability without superior reliability and
    >>> robustness.
    >>>
    >>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:O%...
    >>>> MS will never put an emulation layer for 16-bit programs in XP64 the way
    >>>> they have the WOW64 emulation layer for 32-bit software. The omission of
    >>>> 16-bit support is by design.
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >>>> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >>>> "Lynn McGuire" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:%...
    >>>> > Is MS ever going to put a Win16 and Dos16 emulator into x64 ?
    >>>> >
    >>>> > I still have a couple of Dos16 programs that I use daily for software
    >>>> > development. I would convert them to Win32 console except I do not
    >>>> > have the code.
    >>>> >
    >>>> > One of them is list.com from http://www.buerg.com/list.html . I have
    >>>> > corresponded with Mr. Buerg and he has no plans to convert to Win32.
    >>>> >
    >>>> > The other is edit.com (from MS). This text editor is really lame except
    >>>> > for a couple of things: it is faster than all get out and has a nice
    >>>> > command set that is totally instinctive to me now.
    >>>> >
    >>>> > Thanks,
    >>>> > Lynn McGuire
    >>>> >
    >>>> >
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Lynn McGuire, Dec 12, 2005
    #14
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