win 7 64 bit "repair" and windows update

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by miso, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. miso

    miso Guest

    I have a program that crashes. I think the software is junk. However,
    someone with a bit more invested in the code thinks I have a "broken" DLL.

    I vaguely remember doing the MS "repair" using the installation disk. My
    question is does Windows update notice this repair and then select the
    proper updates? I assume the service pack should be installed after the
    repair.
    miso, Jan 3, 2012
    #1
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  2. miso

    Carlos Guest

    Hi,
    The best way to repair a program that crashes (if it ever worked) is
    to uninstall and install it again.
    Carlos

    On 3 ene, 01:59, miso <> wrote:
    > I have a program that crashes. I think the software is junk. However,
    > someone with a bit more invested in the code thinks I have a "broken" DLL.
    >
    > I vaguely remember doing the MS "repair" using the installation disk. My
    > question is does Windows update notice this repair and then select the
    > proper updates? I assume the service pack should be installed after the
    > repair.
    Carlos, Jan 3, 2012
    #2
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  3. miso

    miso Guest

    On 1/3/2012 8:37 AM, Carlos wrote:
    > Hi,
    > The best way to repair a program that crashes (if it ever worked) is
    > to uninstall and install it again.
    > Carlos
    >
    > On 3 ene, 01:59, miso<> wrote:
    >> I have a program that crashes. I think the software is junk. However,
    >> someone with a bit more invested in the code thinks I have a "broken" DLL.
    >>
    >> I vaguely remember doing the MS "repair" using the installation disk. My
    >> question is does Windows update notice this repair and then select the
    >> proper updates? I assume the service pack should be installed after the
    >> repair.

    >


    I've done that. The claim is one of the OS DLLs is "broken", so
    reinstalling won't fix that.

    This program works, but crashes every third day or so. It is a memory
    violation. I would bet on some index getting too large or some other
    programming error, but the tried and true means to get the customer off
    your back is to blame Microsoft. [I have a lot more faith in MS than
    your average one man programming shop.]

    So the question still remains if windows is smart enough to recognize I
    would need new updates.
    miso, Jan 3, 2012
    #3
  4. miso

    miso Guest

    What a quandary...a mix of top and bottom posters. Somebody is bound to
    yell at me so deleted all the old text. ;-)

    I'm going to spare the author of the software the negative publicity by
    mentioning the name, even I seem to be accused of "pilot error" at this
    point.

    I do not get a BSOD. Win 7 is way better in that respect that older OSs.
    I'm not sure I ever got a BSOD with win 7.

    I am running win 7 pro 64 bit on an intel atom D525 with nvdia ion2.
    [Yes, that atom is 64 bit.] Specifically the Asus at510nt-i. Yes, I know
    this was considered a flaky mobo when it first hit the market. Mine has
    had all it's shots (bios, drivers, etc.) and works very well. I run
    4Gbytes of ram. The VM is turned off since I use a SSD. No indexing
    either. Otherwise this is a very normal installation. The PC is a low
    power 12V unit that uses a power supply capable of using a gel cell as a
    source, so it is regulated to an insane quality.

    The exception code is 0xc0000005. Most online searches blame antivirus
    programs for causing this problem. [Note, when you can't point a finger
    at Redmond, point a finger a Norton.] I turned off all antivirus
    software and the program still crashes. I find it is most stable using
    win XP compatibility. I am resistant to installing the XP virtual
    machine, though since I have the Pro version, I believe that is a free
    download.

    I take it nobody actually knows the answer to if windows will apply
    updates after a repair. If this is the case, I need to take this
    question to another forum.

    What I really need to do is convince the programmer that this PC is
    God's gift to computing, so just compile a version of the software with
    all the debugging turned on and let's find the index exceeding the array
    limit. [All software has bugs.] If the thing was OSS, that would be job
    one as far as I'm concerned, but I don't have source code and the
    programmer already got paid. The claim is thousands of people run this
    software without a problem.
    miso, Jan 3, 2012
    #4
  5. miso

    BullDawg Guest

    Has the program ever worked? If so, try a system restore to a date before
    the program stopped working.

    OT: BTW, I am mostly a top poster. There advantages to both top and
    bottom, but most seem to use top. There is no reason to drive on the left
    side of the road when everyone else is driving on the right and vice versa
    for those in countries that drive on the left. For those countries where
    everyone seems to drive on the left, right, middle, or wherever, confusion
    reigns, as happened in this thread.

    The one rule I try to observe: If the thread has started with bottom
    posting, I try to continue with bottom posting. I sometimes forget, but I
    try.

    --
    ______________

    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    ______________
    "miso" <> wrote in message
    news:je03v5$lfk$...
    > What a quandary...a mix of top and bottom posters. Somebody is bound to
    > yell at me so deleted all the old text. ;-)
    >
    > I'm going to spare the author of the software the negative publicity by
    > mentioning the name, even I seem to be accused of "pilot error" at this
    > point.
    >
    > I do not get a BSOD. Win 7 is way better in that respect that older OSs.
    > I'm not sure I ever got a BSOD with win 7.
    >
    > I am running win 7 pro 64 bit on an intel atom D525 with nvdia ion2. [Yes,
    > that atom is 64 bit.] Specifically the Asus at510nt-i. Yes, I know this
    > was considered a flaky mobo when it first hit the market. Mine has had all
    > it's shots (bios, drivers, etc.) and works very well. I run 4Gbytes of
    > ram. The VM is turned off since I use a SSD. No indexing either. Otherwise
    > this is a very normal installation. The PC is a low power 12V unit that
    > uses a power supply capable of using a gel cell as a source, so it is
    > regulated to an insane quality.
    >
    > The exception code is 0xc0000005. Most online searches blame antivirus
    > programs for causing this problem. [Note, when you can't point a finger at
    > Redmond, point a finger a Norton.] I turned off all antivirus software and
    > the program still crashes. I find it is most stable using win XP
    > compatibility. I am resistant to installing the XP virtual machine, though
    > since I have the Pro version, I believe that is a free download.
    >
    > I take it nobody actually knows the answer to if windows will apply
    > updates after a repair. If this is the case, I need to take this question
    > to another forum.
    >
    > What I really need to do is convince the programmer that this PC is God's
    > gift to computing, so just compile a version of the software with all the
    > debugging turned on and let's find the index exceeding the array limit.
    > [All software has bugs.] If the thing was OSS, that would be job one as
    > far as I'm concerned, but I don't have source code and the programmer
    > already got paid. The claim is thousands of people run this software
    > without a problem.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    BullDawg, Jan 4, 2012
    #5
  6. miso

    Jeff Layman Guest

    On 03/01/2012 23:45, miso wrote:
    > What a quandary...a mix of top and bottom posters. Somebody is bound to
    > yell at me so deleted all the old text. ;-)
    >
    > I'm going to spare the author of the software the negative publicity by
    > mentioning the name, even I seem to be accused of "pilot error" at this
    > point.
    >
    > I do not get a BSOD. Win 7 is way better in that respect that older OSs.
    > I'm not sure I ever got a BSOD with win 7.
    >
    > I am running win 7 pro 64 bit on an intel atom D525 with nvdia ion2.
    > [Yes, that atom is 64 bit.] Specifically the Asus at510nt-i. Yes, I know
    > this was considered a flaky mobo when it first hit the market. Mine has
    > had all it's shots (bios, drivers, etc.) and works very well. I run
    > 4Gbytes of ram. The VM is turned off since I use a SSD. No indexing
    > either. Otherwise this is a very normal installation. The PC is a low
    > power 12V unit that uses a power supply capable of using a gel cell as a
    > source, so it is regulated to an insane quality.
    >
    > The exception code is 0xc0000005. Most online searches blame antivirus
    > programs for causing this problem. [Note, when you can't point a finger
    > at Redmond, point a finger a Norton.] I turned off all antivirus
    > software and the program still crashes. I find it is most stable using
    > win XP compatibility. I am resistant to installing the XP virtual
    > machine, though since I have the Pro version, I believe that is a free
    > download.
    >
    > I take it nobody actually knows the answer to if windows will apply
    > updates after a repair. If this is the case, I need to take this
    > question to another forum.
    >
    > What I really need to do is convince the programmer that this PC is
    > God's gift to computing, so just compile a version of the software with
    > all the debugging turned on and let's find the index exceeding the array
    > limit. [All software has bugs.] If the thing was OSS, that would be job
    > one as far as I'm concerned, but I don't have source code and the
    > programmer already got paid. The claim is thousands of people run this
    > software without a problem.


    Just in case there is a corrupt win7 * .dll file, have you considred
    running sfc /scannow?
    (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929833)

    --

    Jeff
    Jeff Layman, Jan 4, 2012
    #6
  7. miso

    miso Guest

    On 1/3/2012 11:51 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
    > On 03/01/2012 23:45, miso wrote:
    >> What a quandary...a mix of top and bottom posters. Somebody is bound to
    >> yell at me so deleted all the old text. ;-)
    >>
    >> I'm going to spare the author of the software the negative publicity by
    >> mentioning the name, even I seem to be accused of "pilot error" at this
    >> point.
    >>
    >> I do not get a BSOD. Win 7 is way better in that respect that older OSs.
    >> I'm not sure I ever got a BSOD with win 7.
    >>
    >> I am running win 7 pro 64 bit on an intel atom D525 with nvdia ion2.
    >> [Yes, that atom is 64 bit.] Specifically the Asus at510nt-i. Yes, I know
    >> this was considered a flaky mobo when it first hit the market. Mine has
    >> had all it's shots (bios, drivers, etc.) and works very well. I run
    >> 4Gbytes of ram. The VM is turned off since I use a SSD. No indexing
    >> either. Otherwise this is a very normal installation. The PC is a low
    >> power 12V unit that uses a power supply capable of using a gel cell as a
    >> source, so it is regulated to an insane quality.
    >>
    >> The exception code is 0xc0000005. Most online searches blame antivirus
    >> programs for causing this problem. [Note, when you can't point a finger
    >> at Redmond, point a finger a Norton.] I turned off all antivirus
    >> software and the program still crashes. I find it is most stable using
    >> win XP compatibility. I am resistant to installing the XP virtual
    >> machine, though since I have the Pro version, I believe that is a free
    >> download.
    >>
    >> I take it nobody actually knows the answer to if windows will apply
    >> updates after a repair. If this is the case, I need to take this
    >> question to another forum.
    >>
    >> What I really need to do is convince the programmer that this PC is
    >> God's gift to computing, so just compile a version of the software with
    >> all the debugging turned on and let's find the index exceeding the array
    >> limit. [All software has bugs.] If the thing was OSS, that would be job
    >> one as far as I'm concerned, but I don't have source code and the
    >> programmer already got paid. The claim is thousands of people run this
    >> software without a problem.

    >
    > Just in case there is a corrupt win7 * .dll file, have you considred
    > running sfc /scannow?
    > (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929833)
    >

    Now we're talking. I forgot about that command. It turns out win 7
    security has a special trick so you can get administrator permission on
    the command prompt. You put CMD in the search line, but hit
    cntl+shift+enter to get administrator permission for the command prompt.
    It seems being administrator isn't enough, or I have permissions set
    strangely.

    In any event, that was a good idea. It found no problems. But does that
    really prove all my dlls are sound? What does that command use as a
    reference? Do it check a byte count or something like that?
    miso, Jan 4, 2012
    #7
  8. miso

    miso Guest

    On 1/3/2012 9:00 PM, BullDawg wrote:
    > Has the program ever worked? If so, try a system restore to a date before
    > the program stopped working.
    >
    > OT: BTW, I am mostly a top poster. There advantages to both top and
    > bottom, but most seem to use top. There is no reason to drive on the left
    > side of the road when everyone else is driving on the right and vice versa
    > for those in countries that drive on the left. For those countries where
    > everyone seems to drive on the left, right, middle, or wherever, confusion
    > reigns, as happened in this thread.
    >
    > The one rule I try to observe: If the thread has started with bottom
    > posting, I try to continue with bottom posting. I sometimes forget, but I
    > try.
    >


    In software, work is a relative term. The eval version ran for 3 days
    straight. You would of thought that would flog it. But it turns out it
    takes a few days for the bug to show up.

    Initially I ran it non-stop. Thinking there might be a memory leak
    issue, I started to shut it down daily and restart it. No difference
    really.
    miso, Jan 4, 2012
    #8
  9. miso

    Jeff Layman Guest

    On 04/01/2012 08:35, miso wrote:
    > On 1/3/2012 11:51 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:


    (snip)

    >> Just in case there is a corrupt win7 * .dll file, have you considred
    >> running sfc /scannow?
    >> (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929833)
    >>

    > Now we're talking. I forgot about that command. It turns out win 7
    > security has a special trick so you can get administrator permission on
    > the command prompt. You put CMD in the search line, but hit
    > cntl+shift+enter to get administrator permission for the command prompt.
    > It seems being administrator isn't enough, or I have permissions set
    > strangely.


    Why not just right-click on cmd.exe and select "Run as administrator"?

    > In any event, that was a good idea. It found no problems. But does that
    > really prove all my dlls are sound? What does that command use as a
    > reference? Do it check a byte count or something like that?


    Did you check the log that sfc makes? See Option Three here:
    http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1538-sfc-scannow-command-system-file-checker.html

    According to the wiki
    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/System_File_Checker
    "System File Checker is integrated with Windows Resource Protection,
    which protects registry keys and folders as well as critical system
    files....Windows File Protection works by registering for notification
    of file changes in Winlogon. If any changes are detected to a protected
    system file, the modified file is restored from a cached copy located in
    a compressed folder at %WinDir%\System32\dllcache. Windows Resource
    Protection works by setting discretionary access control lists (DACLs)
    and access control lists (ACLs) defined for protected resources.
    Permission for full access to modify WRP-protected resources is
    restricted to the processes using the Windows Modules Installer service
    (TrustedInstaller.exe). Administrators no longer have full rights to
    system files."

    --

    Jeff
    Jeff Layman, Jan 4, 2012
    #9
  10. On Jan 3, 4:59 am, miso <> wrote:
    > I have a program that crashes. I think the software is junk. However,
    > someone with a bit more invested in the code thinks I have a "broken" DLL..
    >
    > I vaguely remember doing the MS "repair" using the installation disk. My
    > question is does Windows update notice this repair and then select the
    > proper updates? I assume the service pack should be installed after the
    > repair.


    Unfortunately I'm not qualified to address this question that you
    actually asked - that is, whether the "repair" options on your disk
    interfere with Windows Update replacements of original DLLs with this
    not being detected by Windows Update subsequently. But that would be
    a grave and common problem if it existed, surely?

    I have a vague recollection that Windows Update may have a history of
    past updates - I was just looking at it in fact - that can be erased,
    causing Windows Update to re-consider and re-test whether all existing
    updates are required on your PC or are already there. But I'm not
    sure about this.

    Some authorities prefer simply reinstalling Windows from scratch when
    something goes wrong. I found one such when looking for references to
    a problem that turned out to be a hugely faulty non-ECC memory module,
    not detected by BIOS test (omitting EFI diagnostics because I'd
    misplaced the SD card copy of the EFI software) but detected by
    Memtest86+ on the free-download bootable SystemRescueCD. I thought
    that responding to the blue-screen at boot that /did/ indicate a
    memory problem, by reinstalling Windows from scratch, was premature.
    But if you can do that - or can restore a previous working system
    image - it does cut out much fiddling around.

    I think in your case you are not quite on firm ground if the PC isn't
    Microsoft-certified Windows 7 hardware or other third-party assured.
    You're right, all software has bugs. But so does almost all
    electronics, including the CPU itself.
    Robert Carnegie, Jan 4, 2012
    #10
  11. miso

    miso Guest

    On 1/4/2012 3:56 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
    > On 04/01/2012 08:35, miso wrote:
    >> On 1/3/2012 11:51 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:

    >
    > (snip)
    >
    >>> Just in case there is a corrupt win7 * .dll file, have you considred
    >>> running sfc /scannow?
    >>> (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929833)
    >>>

    >> Now we're talking. I forgot about that command. It turns out win 7
    >> security has a special trick so you can get administrator permission on
    >> the command prompt. You put CMD in the search line, but hit
    >> cntl+shift+enter to get administrator permission for the command prompt.
    >> It seems being administrator isn't enough, or I have permissions set
    >> strangely.

    >
    > Why not just right-click on cmd.exe and select "Run as administrator"?
    >
    >> In any event, that was a good idea. It found no problems. But does that
    >> really prove all my dlls are sound? What does that command use as a
    >> reference? Do it check a byte count or something like that?

    >
    > Did you check the log that sfc makes? See Option Three here:
    > http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1538-sfc-scannow-command-system-file-checker.html
    >
    >
    > According to the wiki
    > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/System_File_Checker
    > "System File Checker is integrated with Windows Resource Protection,
    > which protects registry keys and folders as well as critical system
    > files....Windows File Protection works by registering for notification
    > of file changes in Winlogon. If any changes are detected to a protected
    > system file, the modified file is restored from a cached copy located in
    > a compressed folder at %WinDir%\System32\dllcache. Windows Resource
    > Protection works by setting discretionary access control lists (DACLs)
    > and access control lists (ACLs) defined for protected resources.
    > Permission for full access to modify WRP-protected resources is
    > restricted to the processes using the Windows Modules Installer service
    > (TrustedInstaller.exe). Administrators no longer have full rights to
    > system files."
    >


    If you right click on the command and do run as administrator, how do
    you feed it the parameters? In any event, control+shift is trivial once
    you know about it's existence. [Much like the secret mode in the bios on
    my old PC to get into the "advanced" settings. It was so secret it
    wasn't documented.]
    miso, Jan 4, 2012
    #11
  12. miso

    miso Guest

    On 1/4/2012 8:35 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
    > On Jan 3, 4:59 am, miso<> wrote:
    >> I have a program that crashes. I think the software is junk. However,
    >> someone with a bit more invested in the code thinks I have a "broken" DLL.
    >>
    >> I vaguely remember doing the MS "repair" using the installation disk. My
    >> question is does Windows update notice this repair and then select the
    >> proper updates? I assume the service pack should be installed after the
    >> repair.

    >
    > Unfortunately I'm not qualified to address this question that you
    > actually asked - that is, whether the "repair" options on your disk
    > interfere with Windows Update replacements of original DLLs with this
    > not being detected by Windows Update subsequently. But that would be
    > a grave and common problem if it existed, surely?
    >
    > I have a vague recollection that Windows Update may have a history of
    > past updates - I was just looking at it in fact - that can be erased,
    > causing Windows Update to re-consider and re-test whether all existing
    > updates are required on your PC or are already there. But I'm not
    > sure about this.
    >
    > Some authorities prefer simply reinstalling Windows from scratch when
    > something goes wrong. I found one such when looking for references to
    > a problem that turned out to be a hugely faulty non-ECC memory module,
    > not detected by BIOS test (omitting EFI diagnostics because I'd
    > misplaced the SD card copy of the EFI software) but detected by
    > Memtest86+ on the free-download bootable SystemRescueCD. I thought
    > that responding to the blue-screen at boot that /did/ indicate a
    > memory problem, by reinstalling Windows from scratch, was premature.
    > But if you can do that - or can restore a previous working system
    > image - it does cut out much fiddling around.
    >
    > I think in your case you are not quite on firm ground if the PC isn't
    > Microsoft-certified Windows 7 hardware or other third-party assured.
    > You're right, all software has bugs. But so does almost all
    > electronics, including the CPU itself.


    The mem test is on most linux distribution disks as well. I can run that
    and see what happens.

    Regarding my hardware being certified, all I can say is anything I ever
    built is of better quality than what you buy from HP, Dell, etc.
    Especially the power supplies. I don't overclock.

    If it passes the mem test, I will see if the programmer will compile a
    debug version. I really don't want to reinstall windows, especially when
    I only have one program that has this crash. Especially a crash that is
    trapped, which is different than BSOD. The OS knows this program is
    trying to go outside it's protected memory, trapps it, and keeps the
    rest of the system working just fine. I have more faith in win 7 than a
    one person programming company.
    miso, Jan 4, 2012
    #12
  13. miso

    miso Guest


    > I'm not sure what the difference is. With your method, you get a box
    > entitled "Administrator:C:\Windows\system32\cmd.exe". With my method,
    > you get a box entitled "Administrator : Command Prompt". With both, the
    > cursor is waiting at C:\Windows\system32.
    >


    I was thinking you meant to right click on scf, not CMD. In any event,
    it is zero effort to do the control-shift. I like keyboard shortcuts.
    miso, Jan 5, 2012
    #13
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