Wierd problem with trying to play games

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by thingy, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. thingy

    thingy Guest

    For a while I have been unable to play video games.....

    So,

    AGP Dual p3-1000 Gainward 4200ti - 64 meg of ram win2k....768meg of ram...

    In Linux the machine is stable (2d graphics) it can run for weeks and
    even months no issues....in win2k 2d stable, goes to 3d for games and
    locks up....

    Replaced PSU with a new 400watt one....4200Ti

    locks up...

    Replaced 4200ti with a Legend 128meg 6600GT....not enough juice for
    machine to boot...Ok so sledge hammer time....buy a SLI capable 600w
    Enermax noisetaker....machine boots & runs in 2d mode
    fine....games....still locks up....same symptoms....all decent
    games.....freeze....

    Latest nvidia graphics...promise disk controller drivers....via disk
    controller drivers....last available motherboard bios....MSI auto
    updates running nothing required, creative sound card drivers.............

    Stripped out machine of other pci cards....no change....

    Cpus according to bios are OK (core voltage on one is lower than the
    other though, but it has always been this way), fan speed is OK....

    Tried bios safe defaults....

    Swapping ram in, out and around......

    Since the fan on the 4200ti burnt out I am wondering if that damaged the
    motherboard....weakened a track in the pcb that is OK for 2d but with 3d
    it is enough to fail it....

    I have rebuilt the machine 2 ~ 3 times.....

    All other audio & video programs like editing and sound conversion which
    stretch the cpu and ram have no issues......

    If it was a voltage problem I'd expect a complete crash....instead it
    locks the OS/game up....

    Got me stumped......

    ideas?

    My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try an
    old one........

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Nov 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. thingy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > For a while I have been unable to play video games.....
    >
    > So,
    >
    > AGP Dual p3-1000 Gainward 4200ti - 64 meg of ram win2k....768meg of
    > ram...
    > In Linux the machine is stable (2d graphics) it can run for weeks and
    > even months no issues....in win2k 2d stable, goes to 3d for games and
    > locks up....
    >
    > Replaced PSU with a new 400watt one....4200Ti
    >
    > locks up...
    >
    > Replaced 4200ti with a Legend 128meg 6600GT....not enough juice for
    > machine to boot...Ok so sledge hammer time....buy a SLI capable 600w
    > Enermax noisetaker....machine boots & runs in 2d mode
    > fine....games....still locks up....same symptoms....all decent
    > games.....freeze....
    >
    > Latest nvidia graphics...promise disk controller drivers....via disk
    > controller drivers....last available motherboard bios....MSI auto
    > updates running nothing required, creative sound card
    > drivers.............
    > Stripped out machine of other pci cards....no change....
    >
    > Cpus according to bios are OK (core voltage on one is lower than the
    > other though, but it has always been this way), fan speed is OK....
    >
    > Tried bios safe defaults....
    >
    > Swapping ram in, out and around......
    >
    > Since the fan on the 4200ti burnt out I am wondering if that damaged
    > the motherboard....weakened a track in the pcb that is OK for 2d but
    > with 3d it is enough to fail it....
    >
    > I have rebuilt the machine 2 ~ 3 times.....
    >
    > All other audio & video programs like editing and sound conversion
    > which stretch the cpu and ram have no issues......
    >
    > If it was a voltage problem I'd expect a complete crash....instead it
    > locks the OS/game up....
    >
    > Got me stumped......
    >
    > ideas?
    >
    > My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try
    > an old one........


    Maybe not hardware at all? Corrupt DirectX install? As I'm assuming you
    changed drivers when you changed cards that rules out drivers so maybe the
    API?
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Nov 10, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. thingy

    Mercury Guest

    have you tried running dxdiag?

    "thingy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > For a while I have been unable to play video games.....
    >
    > So,
    >
    > AGP Dual p3-1000 Gainward 4200ti - 64 meg of ram win2k....768meg of ram...
    >
    > In Linux the machine is stable (2d graphics) it can run for weeks and even
    > months no issues....in win2k 2d stable, goes to 3d for games and locks
    > up....
    >
    > Replaced PSU with a new 400watt one....4200Ti
    >
    > locks up...
    >
    > Replaced 4200ti with a Legend 128meg 6600GT....not enough juice for
    > machine to boot...Ok so sledge hammer time....buy a SLI capable 600w
    > Enermax noisetaker....machine boots & runs in 2d mode
    > fine....games....still locks up....same symptoms....all decent
    > games.....freeze....
    >
    > Latest nvidia graphics...promise disk controller drivers....via disk
    > controller drivers....last available motherboard bios....MSI auto updates
    > running nothing required, creative sound card drivers.............
    >
    > Stripped out machine of other pci cards....no change....
    >
    > Cpus according to bios are OK (core voltage on one is lower than the other
    > though, but it has always been this way), fan speed is OK....
    >
    > Tried bios safe defaults....
    >
    > Swapping ram in, out and around......
    >
    > Since the fan on the 4200ti burnt out I am wondering if that damaged the
    > motherboard....weakened a track in the pcb that is OK for 2d but with 3d
    > it is enough to fail it....
    >
    > I have rebuilt the machine 2 ~ 3 times.....
    >
    > All other audio & video programs like editing and sound conversion which
    > stretch the cpu and ram have no issues......
    >
    > If it was a voltage problem I'd expect a complete crash....instead it
    > locks the OS/game up....
    >
    > Got me stumped......
    >
    > ideas?
    >
    > My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try an
    > old one........
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Mercury, Nov 10, 2005
    #3
  4. thingy

    Sharktyymbfj Guest

    Do you have onboard sound?


    --
    Sharktyymbfj
    "thingy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > For a while I have been unable to play video games.....
    >
    > So,
    >
    > AGP Dual p3-1000 Gainward 4200ti - 64 meg of ram win2k....768meg of ram...
    >
    > In Linux the machine is stable (2d graphics) it can run for weeks and even
    > months no issues....in win2k 2d stable, goes to 3d for games and locks
    > up....
    >
    > Replaced PSU with a new 400watt one....4200Ti
    >
    > locks up...
    >
    > Replaced 4200ti with a Legend 128meg 6600GT....not enough juice for
    > machine to boot...Ok so sledge hammer time....buy a SLI capable 600w
    > Enermax noisetaker....machine boots & runs in 2d mode
    > fine....games....still locks up....same symptoms....all decent
    > games.....freeze....
    >
    > Latest nvidia graphics...promise disk controller drivers....via disk
    > controller drivers....last available motherboard bios....MSI auto updates
    > running nothing required, creative sound card drivers.............
    >
    > Stripped out machine of other pci cards....no change....
    >
    > Cpus according to bios are OK (core voltage on one is lower than the other
    > though, but it has always been this way), fan speed is OK....
    >
    > Tried bios safe defaults....
    >
    > Swapping ram in, out and around......
    >
    > Since the fan on the 4200ti burnt out I am wondering if that damaged the
    > motherboard....weakened a track in the pcb that is OK for 2d but with 3d
    > it is enough to fail it....
    >
    > I have rebuilt the machine 2 ~ 3 times.....
    >
    > All other audio & video programs like editing and sound conversion which
    > stretch the cpu and ram have no issues......
    >
    > If it was a voltage problem I'd expect a complete crash....instead it
    > locks the OS/game up....
    >
    > Got me stumped......
    >
    > ideas?
    >
    > My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try an
    > old one........
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Sharktyymbfj, Nov 11, 2005
    #4
  5. thingy wrote:
    > For a while I have been unable to play video games.....
    >
    > So,
    >
    > AGP Dual p3-1000 Gainward 4200ti - 64 meg of ram win2k....768meg of ram...
    >
    > In Linux the machine is stable (2d graphics) it can run for weeks and
    > even months no issues....in win2k 2d stable, goes to 3d for games and
    > locks up....


    <hardware tinkering snipped>

    What is there to indicate that this is a hardware problem ?

    Have you tried a fresh doze install ?
    Mark Robinson, Nov 11, 2005
    #5
  6. thingy

    thing2 Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > thingy wrote:
    >
    >>For a while I have been unable to play video games.....
    >>
    >>So,
    >>
    >>AGP Dual p3-1000 Gainward 4200ti - 64 meg of ram win2k....768meg of
    >>ram...
    >>In Linux the machine is stable (2d graphics) it can run for weeks and
    >>even months no issues....in win2k 2d stable, goes to 3d for games and
    >>locks up....
    >>
    >>Replaced PSU with a new 400watt one....4200Ti
    >>
    >>locks up...
    >>
    >>Replaced 4200ti with a Legend 128meg 6600GT....not enough juice for
    >>machine to boot...Ok so sledge hammer time....buy a SLI capable 600w
    >>Enermax noisetaker....machine boots & runs in 2d mode
    >>fine....games....still locks up....same symptoms....all decent
    >>games.....freeze....
    >>
    >>Latest nvidia graphics...promise disk controller drivers....via disk
    >>controller drivers....last available motherboard bios....MSI auto
    >>updates running nothing required, creative sound card
    >>drivers.............
    >>Stripped out machine of other pci cards....no change....
    >>
    >>Cpus according to bios are OK (core voltage on one is lower than the
    >>other though, but it has always been this way), fan speed is OK....
    >>
    >>Tried bios safe defaults....
    >>
    >>Swapping ram in, out and around......
    >>
    >>Since the fan on the 4200ti burnt out I am wondering if that damaged
    >>the motherboard....weakened a track in the pcb that is OK for 2d but
    >> with 3d it is enough to fail it....
    >>
    >>I have rebuilt the machine 2 ~ 3 times.....
    >>
    >>All other audio & video programs like editing and sound conversion
    >>which stretch the cpu and ram have no issues......
    >>
    >>If it was a voltage problem I'd expect a complete crash....instead it
    >>locks the OS/game up....
    >>
    >>Got me stumped......
    >>
    >>ideas?
    >>
    >>My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try
    >>an old one........

    >
    >
    > Maybe not hardware at all? Corrupt DirectX install? As I'm assuming you
    > changed drivers when you changed cards that rules out drivers so maybe the
    > API?


    Unified nvidia driver, seemed to detect and reboot for changes to take
    effect OK.

    I have rebuilt the box several times, so it could be a corrupted DirectX
    trouble is I dont see how I can ID that or fix it.

    My next idea is to run a base unpatched win2k on the unused ata66 ide
    interface, see how that goes.

    regards

    Thing
    thing2, Nov 11, 2005
    #6
  7. thingy

    thing2 Guest

    Sharktyymbfj wrote:
    > Do you have onboard sound?
    >
    >


    yes disabled in the bios, I have a pci to ext box creative sound card.

    regards

    Thing
    thing2, Nov 11, 2005
    #7
  8. thingy

    thing2 Guest

    Mark Robinson wrote:
    > thingy wrote:
    >
    >> For a while I have been unable to play video games.....
    >>
    >> So,
    >>
    >> AGP Dual p3-1000 Gainward 4200ti - 64 meg of ram win2k....768meg of
    >> ram...
    >>
    >> In Linux the machine is stable (2d graphics) it can run for weeks and
    >> even months no issues....in win2k 2d stable, goes to 3d for games and
    >> locks up....

    >
    >
    > <hardware tinkering snipped>
    >
    > What is there to indicate that this is a hardware problem ?


    Nothing exactly.

    > Have you tried a fresh doze install ?
    >


    yes, 2 or 3.

    Hence my looking at something else......

    I have a similar m/board here at work, was goona buy it off the company
    for a few dollrs and swap it in....if it is the same then this suggests
    its not a dodgy motherboard, but that is a lot fo work.

    regards

    Thing
    thing2, Nov 11, 2005
    #8
  9. thingy

    Sharktyymbfj Guest

    "thing2" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Sharktyymbfj wrote:
    >> Do you have onboard sound?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > yes disabled in the bios, I have a pci to ext box creative sound card.


    Okay, I had a similar problem with a brand new P4 3GHz with onboard.

    As soon as I put in a soundblaster card the freezing stopped.

    Maybe just try a stand alone internal card to eliminate the possibility.


    --
    Sharktyymbfj
    Sharktyymbfj, Nov 11, 2005
    #9
  10. thingy

    thing2 Guest

    Sharktyymbfj wrote:
    > "thing2" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Sharktyymbfj wrote:
    >>
    >>>Do you have onboard sound?
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>yes disabled in the bios, I have a pci to ext box creative sound card.

    >
    >
    > Okay, I had a similar problem with a brand new P4 3GHz with onboard.
    >
    > As soon as I put in a soundblaster card the freezing stopped.
    >
    > Maybe just try a stand alone internal card to eliminate the possibility.
    >
    >


    hmm....yes, that is possible....I will be real pissed if it is that
    though, $500 sound card no longer usable....worth a shot.

    thanks

    Thing
    thing2, Nov 11, 2005
    #10
  11. thingy

    Daniel Guest

    <mega snip>

    Just out of curiousity, do you get a loop error?

    Check the C:\Windows\logfiles\watchdog directory for any *.wdl files.

    These can be opened with any text editor.
    Daniel, Nov 11, 2005
    #11
  12. thingy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    thing2 wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> thingy wrote:
    >>> My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try
    >>> an old one........

    >>
    >>
    >> Maybe not hardware at all? Corrupt DirectX install? As I'm assuming
    >> you changed drivers when you changed cards that rules out drivers so
    >> maybe the API?

    >
    > Unified nvidia driver, seemed to detect and reboot for changes to take
    > effect OK.
    >
    > I have rebuilt the box several times, so it could be a corrupted
    > DirectX trouble is I dont see how I can ID that or fix it.
    >
    > My next idea is to run a base unpatched win2k on the unused ata66 ide
    > interface, see how that goes.


    Good idea. I'm leaning towards a DirectX or Windows problem personally.

    Good luck.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Nov 11, 2005
    #12
  13. thingy

    thingy Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > thing2 wrote:
    >
    >>~misfit~ wrote:
    >>
    >>>thingy wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try
    >>>>an old one........
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Maybe not hardware at all? Corrupt DirectX install? As I'm assuming
    >>>you changed drivers when you changed cards that rules out drivers so
    >>>maybe the API?

    >>
    >>Unified nvidia driver, seemed to detect and reboot for changes to take
    >>effect OK.
    >>
    >>I have rebuilt the box several times, so it could be a corrupted
    >>DirectX trouble is I dont see how I can ID that or fix it.
    >>
    >>My next idea is to run a base unpatched win2k on the unused ata66 ide
    >>interface, see how that goes.

    >
    >
    > Good idea. I'm leaning towards a DirectX or Windows problem personally.
    >
    > Good luck.


    me too...trouble is finding it.

    Even if I can prove it is it, that is a huge issue as I am reliant on
    someone patching it.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Nov 11, 2005
    #13
  14. thingy

    thingy Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > thing2 wrote:
    >
    >>~misfit~ wrote:
    >>
    >>>thingy wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>My thought lies with the promise disk controller driver....might try
    >>>>an old one........
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Maybe not hardware at all? Corrupt DirectX install? As I'm assuming
    >>>you changed drivers when you changed cards that rules out drivers so
    >>>maybe the API?

    >>
    >>Unified nvidia driver, seemed to detect and reboot for changes to take
    >>effect OK.
    >>
    >>I have rebuilt the box several times, so it could be a corrupted
    >>DirectX trouble is I dont see how I can ID that or fix it.
    >>
    >>My next idea is to run a base unpatched win2k on the unused ata66 ide
    >>interface, see how that goes.

    >
    >
    > Good idea. I'm leaning towards a DirectX or Windows problem personally.
    >
    > Good luck.


    Just ran dxdiag as suggested by another post....video has vertical lines
    down it.....re-installed a game ran fine...rebooted and it is borked
    again........

    :/

    So it would seem I need to keep an old copy of win2k with an old directx
    running just for games....

    :/

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Nov 11, 2005
    #14
  15. thingy

    thingy Guest

    Mercury wrote:
    > have you tried running dxdiag?


    no i had not, didnt know about it....I have now and the video shows
    vertical gashes down the spinning the cubes....so probbaly a directx
    prob I suppose...

    Next Q is since I have a fully updated box I have no where to go....?

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Nov 11, 2005
    #15
  16. thingy

    Mercury Guest

    You can re-install directx 9.

    But, given the h/w issues that have occured this may not be the best or
    correct path to follow as it may not cure the problem. I would try another
    vid card and see what happens and see if you can prove its not h/w.

    It won't hurt to reinstall directx... Just rerun the directx setup -
    download from MS or get it off a reputable magazine CD.

    The errors you are seeing can be h/w - vid ram failures although these can
    crash the OS too, or other vid h/w.

    BOL

    "thingy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mercury wrote:
    >> have you tried running dxdiag?

    >
    > no i had not, didnt know about it....I have now and the video shows
    > vertical gashes down the spinning the cubes....so probbaly a directx prob
    > I suppose...
    >
    > Next Q is since I have a fully updated box I have no where to go....?
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    Mercury, Nov 11, 2005
    #16
  17. thingy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Mercury wrote:

    <snip>

    dxdiag is a funny thing huh? I hadn't ran it for a while so just been having
    a nosey. I disabled my swapfile as per the discussion in the "Read Ahead"
    thread the other day and haven't re-enabled it yet (1GB physical RAM).

    On the first tab that dxdiag brings up it tells me that I have; Pagefile:
    190MB used 735MB available. On the last tab, More Help. then MSInfo it tells
    me I have total virtual memory 2GB, available virtual memory 1.96GB and page
    file space 925.95MB. It reports my total and free physical memory correctly.

    I just double-checked in control panel system advanced blah blah blah and I
    have absolutely no pagefile enabled on any partition. WTF???
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Nov 11, 2005
    #17
  18. thingy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Mercury wrote:
    > You can re-install directx 9.
    >
    > But, given the h/w issues that have occured this may not be the best
    > or correct path to follow as it may not cure the problem. I would try
    > another vid card and see what happens and see if you can prove its
    > not h/w.
    > It won't hurt to reinstall directx... Just rerun the directx setup -
    > download from MS or get it off a reputable magazine CD.
    >
    > The errors you are seeing can be h/w - vid ram failures although
    > these can crash the OS too, or other vid h/w.
    >
    > BOL


    Yeah, what Mercury said. Just re-install DX9b or whatever they're up to now.
    Although I don't think you had hardware issues in the first place, except
    maybe a problem with the ti4200 if the GPU overheated badly. However, you're
    not using that now right?
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Nov 11, 2005
    #18
  19. thingy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Mercury wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > dxdiag is a funny thing huh? I hadn't ran it for a while so just been
    > having a nosey. I disabled my swapfile as per the discussion in the
    > "Read Ahead" thread the other day and haven't re-enabled it yet (1GB
    > physical RAM).
    > On the first tab that dxdiag brings up it tells me that I have;
    > Pagefile: 190MB used 735MB available. On the last tab, More Help.
    > then MSInfo it tells me I have total virtual memory 2GB, available
    > virtual memory 1.96GB and page file space 925.95MB. It reports my
    > total and free physical memory correctly.
    > I just double-checked in control panel system advanced blah blah blah
    > and I have absolutely no pagefile enabled on any partition. WTF???


    Just noticed something else. In MSInfo it has "Locale: United States". I
    checked my settings in control panel, regional settings and, sho 'nuff, I
    have NZ selected. Jus how accurate is dxdiag anyway? It can't even read what
    Windows has stored elsewhere.

    I mainly started it up to see what version of DirectX I'm running but I
    actually can't find that after several minutes looking, just these glaring
    errors.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Nov 11, 2005
    #19
  20. thingy

    thingy Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Mercury wrote:
    >
    >>You can re-install directx 9.
    >>
    >>But, given the h/w issues that have occured this may not be the best
    >>or correct path to follow as it may not cure the problem. I would try
    >>another vid card and see what happens and see if you can prove its
    >>not h/w.
    >>It won't hurt to reinstall directx... Just rerun the directx setup -
    >>download from MS or get it off a reputable magazine CD.
    >>
    >>The errors you are seeing can be h/w - vid ram failures although
    >>these can crash the OS too, or other vid h/w.
    >>
    >>BOL

    >
    >
    > Yeah, what Mercury said. Just re-install DX9b or whatever they're up to now.
    > Although I don't think you had hardware issues in the first place, except
    > maybe a problem with the ti4200 if the GPU overheated badly. However, you're
    > not using that now right?


    Nope, I am running the 6600GT.

    I got the latest nvidia drivers and installed a re-dist 9c after a
    reboot, directX 9 now displays correctly in dxdiag but direct 7 and 8
    are still stuffed (and guess what most of my games are 8.

    The saga continues....

    So I installed a new win2k on a spare 60gig drive went perfectly (base
    install anyway)....except now the original win2k install on the 80 gig
    drive wont boot....yet this linux install that shares the 80 gig is fine....

    I eventually found a bios v1.6 which was an upgrade from v1.4...says I
    can now install whistler....whistler = XP I guess...not for $500 though....

    Didnt seem to make any difference.

    ho hum....1 step forward 2 back.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Nov 11, 2005
    #20
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