why you should not buy a Windows phone

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by peter, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. peter

    peter Guest

    "Microsoft unveiled Windows Phone 8, the next version of its mobile
    platform. As part of the announcement, Microsoft admitted that no current
    Windows Phones will be upgradeable to the new platform. ... Microsoft just
    killed the market for Windows Phones. No customer will buy one today knowing
    that it will be outdated and not upgradeable in months."

    http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-just-shafted-its-most-important-
    smartphone-partner-nokia-2012-6
     
    peter, Jun 23, 2012
    #1
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  2. peter

    JohnO Guest

    On Jun 23, 6:55 pm, peter <> wrote:
    > "Microsoft unveiled Windows Phone 8, the next version of its mobile
    > platform. As part of the announcement, Microsoft admitted that no current
    > Windows Phones will be upgradeable to the new platform. ...  Microsoft just
    > killed the market for Windows Phones. No customer will buy one today knowing
    > that it will be outdated and not upgradeable in months."
    >
    > http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-just-shafted-its-most-import...
    > smartphone-partner-nokia-2012-6


    I doubt it's that big a deal.

    I bet 90% of phone owners never upgrade the software on their phones,
    nor would they know how to.

    Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on their
    upgradability to new major versions.
     
    JohnO, Jun 24, 2012
    #2
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  3. peter

    Gordon Guest

    On 2012-06-24, JohnO <> wrote:
    > On Jun 23, 6:55 pm, peter <> wrote:
    >> "Microsoft unveiled Windows Phone 8, the next version of its mobile
    >> platform. As part of the announcement, Microsoft admitted that no current
    >> Windows Phones will be upgradeable to the new platform. ...  Microsoft just
    >> killed the market for Windows Phones. No customer will buy one today knowing
    >> that it will be outdated and not upgradeable in months."
    >>
    >> http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-just-shafted-its-most-import...
    >> smartphone-partner-nokia-2012-6

    >
    > I doubt it's that big a deal.
    >
    > I bet 90% of phone owners never upgrade the software on their phones,
    > nor would they know how to.
    >
    > Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on their
    > upgradability to new major versions.


    Indeed my tablet is, for it has failed to upgrade the OS many a time. I now
    cancel when asked the question.
     
    Gordon, Jun 24, 2012
    #3
  4. peter

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <a2265321-bb0e-4324-a5cc-e474c04faac5
    @re8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>, , JohnO says...
    >
    > On Jun 23, 6:55 pm, peter <> wrote:
    > > "Microsoft unveiled Windows Phone 8, the next version of its mobile
    > > platform. As part of the announcement, Microsoft admitted that no current
    > > Windows Phones will be upgradeable to the new platform. ...  Microsoft just
    > > killed the market for Windows Phones. No customer will buy one today knowing
    > > that it will be outdated and not upgradeable in months."
    > >
    > > http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-just-shafted-its-most-import...
    > > smartphone-partner-nokia-2012-6

    >
    > I doubt it's that big a deal.
    >
    > I bet 90% of phone owners never upgrade the software on their phones,
    > nor would they know how to.
    >
    > Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on their
    > upgradability to new major versions.


    As are iPhones.

    Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do what
    the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone, Android and
    Windows Phone.

    I note on sites like DX/Dealextreme that there are *hundreds* of Android
    phones that cannot run Icecream Sandwich.

    Should software development be stopped just because old hardware can't
    run it? Of course not - get the new hardware!

    Indeed, this highlights the problem - it's the phones, not the phone
    OS's!

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, Jun 24, 2012
    #4
  5. peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    >>
    >> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on their
    >> upgradability to new major versions.

    >
    > As are iPhones.
    >
    > Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do what
    > the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone, Android and
    > Windows Phone.
    >

    There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and software.
    >
    > I note on sites like DX/Dealextreme that there are *hundreds* of Android
    > phones that cannot run Icecream Sandwich.
    >
    > Should software development be stopped just because old hardware can't
    > run it? Of course not - get the new hardware!
    >

    Do you really expect people to spend several hundred dollars every
    couple of years on a new phone? I've only ever had four phones and one
    of those upgrade was because Telecom upgraded their network and another
    one I lost.
    >
    > Indeed, this highlights the problem - it's the phones, not the phone
    > OS's!
    >

    No, it's the users - falling for the old 'upgrade and get the latest
    shiny buttons' trick.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Jun 24, 2012
    #5
  6. peter

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <4fe6efa6$>, ,
    Enkidu says...
    >
    > On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    > >>
    > >> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on their
    > >> upgradability to new major versions.

    > >
    > > As are iPhones.
    > >
    > > Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do what
    > > the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone, Android and
    > > Windows Phone.
    > >

    > There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    > difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and software.


    Sure, but with all due respect, we're talking phone here.

    > >
    > > I note on sites like DX/Dealextreme that there are *hundreds* of Android
    > > phones that cannot run Icecream Sandwich.
    > >
    > > Should software development be stopped just because old hardware can't
    > > run it? Of course not - get the new hardware!
    > >

    > Do you really expect people to spend several hundred dollars every
    > couple of years on a new phone? I've only ever had four phones and one
    > of those upgrade was because Telecom upgraded their network and another
    > one I lost.


    Well looking at work clients, yep, that's exactly what they do with
    their iPhones and Androids.

    > > Indeed, this highlights the problem - it's the phones, not the phone
    > > OS's!
    > >

    > No, it's the users - falling for the old 'upgrade and get the latest
    > shiny buttons' trick.


    That's what they want - they wouldn't spend their money doing it
    otherwise. Personal or business expense, it doesn't seem to stop most
    folk.

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, Jun 24, 2012
    #6
  7. peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/06/12 22:54, Dave Doe wrote:
    > In article <4fe6efa6$>,
    > , Enkidu says...
    >>
    >> On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on
    >>>> their upgradability to new major versions.
    >>>
    >>> As are iPhones.
    >>>
    >>> Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do
    >>> what the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone,
    >>> Android and Windows Phone.
    >>>

    >> There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    >> difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and
    >> software.

    >
    > Sure, but with all due respect, we're talking phone here.
    >

    yeah, I know. My point was that PC software developers develop for more
    than one platform, so why can't phone software developers?
    >
    >>> I note on sites like DX/Dealextreme that there are *hundreds* of
    >>> Android phones that cannot run Icecream Sandwich.
    >>>
    >>> Should software development be stopped just because old hardware
    >>> can't run it? Of course not - get the new hardware!
    >>>

    >> Do you really expect people to spend several hundred dollars every
    >> couple of years on a new phone? I've only ever had four phones and
    >> one of those upgrade was because Telecom upgraded their network and
    >> another one I lost.

    >
    > Well looking at work clients, yep, that's exactly what they do with
    > their iPhones and Androids.
    >
    >>> Indeed, this highlights the problem - it's the phones, not the
    >>> phone OS's!
    >>>

    >> No, it's the users - falling for the old 'upgrade and get the
    >> latest shiny buttons' trick.

    >
    > That's what they want - they wouldn't spend their money doing it
    > otherwise. Personal or business expense, it doesn't seem to stop
    > most folk.
    >

    Yeah. I don't see the sense in it. Pay up to a grand for something that
    you could easily lose.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Jun 24, 2012
    #7
  8. peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On 25/06/12 09:11, Enkidu wrote:
    > On 24/06/12 22:54, Dave Doe wrote:
    >> In article <4fe6efa6$>,
    >> , Enkidu says...
    >>>
    >>> On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted
    >>>>> on their upgradability to new major versions.
    >>>>
    >>>> As are iPhones.
    >>>>
    >>>> Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to
    >>>> do what the new ones do. They're all in the same boat,
    >>>> iPhone, Android and Windows Phone.
    >>>>
    >>> There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    >>> difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and
    >>> software.

    >>
    >> Sure, but with all due respect, we're talking phone here.
    >>

    > yeah, I know. My point was that PC software developers develop for
    > more than one platform, so why can't phone software developers?
    >>
    >>>> I note on sites like DX/Dealextreme that there are *hundreds*
    >>>> of Android phones that cannot run Icecream Sandwich.
    >>>>
    >>>> Should software development be stopped just because old
    >>>> hardware can't run it? Of course not - get the new hardware!
    >>>>
    >>> Do you really expect people to spend several hundred dollars
    >>> every couple of years on a new phone? I've only ever had four
    >>> phones and one of those upgrade was because Telecom upgraded
    >>> their network and another one I lost.

    >>
    >> Well looking at work clients, yep, that's exactly what they do
    >> with their iPhones and Androids.
    >>
    >>>> Indeed, this highlights the problem - it's the phones, not the
    >>>> phone OS's!
    >>>>
    >>> No, it's the users - falling for the old 'upgrade and get the
    >>> latest shiny buttons' trick.

    >>
    >> That's what they want - they wouldn't spend their money doing it
    >> otherwise. Personal or business expense, it doesn't seem to stop
    >> most folk.
    >>

    > Yeah. I don't see the sense in it. Pay up to a grand for something
    > that you could easily lose.
    >

    Another thing. Many people who get these phones don't know how to use
    them. Many have never even synched them to theor PC. Same with tablets.
    There are people these days whose full time job is to support managers
    who have these phones and tablets.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Jun 24, 2012
    #8
  9. peter

    Me Guest

    On 25/06/2012 9:11 a.m., Enkidu wrote:
    > On 24/06/12 22:54, Dave Doe wrote:
    >> In article <4fe6efa6$>,
    >> , Enkidu says...
    >>>
    >>> On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on
    >>>>> their upgradability to new major versions.
    >>>>
    >>>> As are iPhones.
    >>>>
    >>>> Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do
    >>>> what the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone,
    >>>> Android and Windows Phone.
    >>>>
    >>> There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    >>> difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and
    >>> software.

    >>
    >> Sure, but with all due respect, we're talking phone here.
    >>

    > yeah, I know. My point was that PC software developers develop for more
    > than one platform, so why can't phone software developers?
    >>
    >>>> I note on sites like DX/Dealextreme that there are *hundreds* of
    >>>> Android phones that cannot run Icecream Sandwich.
    >>>>
    >>>> Should software development be stopped just because old hardware
    >>>> can't run it? Of course not - get the new hardware!
    >>>>
    >>> Do you really expect people to spend several hundred dollars every
    >>> couple of years on a new phone? I've only ever had four phones and
    >>> one of those upgrade was because Telecom upgraded their network and
    >>> another one I lost.

    >>
    >> Well looking at work clients, yep, that's exactly what they do with
    >> their iPhones and Androids.
    >>
    >>>> Indeed, this highlights the problem - it's the phones, not the
    >>>> phone OS's!
    >>>>
    >>> No, it's the users - falling for the old 'upgrade and get the
    >>> latest shiny buttons' trick.

    >>
    >> That's what they want - they wouldn't spend their money doing it
    >> otherwise. Personal or business expense, it doesn't seem to stop
    >> most folk.
    >>

    > Yeah. I don't see the sense in it. Pay up to a grand for something that
    > you could easily lose.
    >

    There are now cheap (<$300) android phones with iPhone size screens
    which do most of what the $1,000 ones do - with the exception of
    apparent must-have features like being able to tap the backs of two
    phones of the same model together when you want to share your pirated
    mp3 collection. The cheap phones are not particularly cool (TM)
    however, according to my 19YO son.
    I don't "get it" either - but the iPhone was certainly a very cool (TM)
    device at the time it was released.
    The Samsung vs iThing battle is rather odd, while Apple and Samsung are
    trying to sue the crap out of each other all over the planet, teardown
    on iPhones/iPads shows that the retina displays are made by Samsung.
    Samsung is a large diverse company with many divisions, but the screens
    on these devices aren't generic display modules that Apple would design
    and then tender out to the lowest bidder - there must have been
    long-term collaboration between the companies. Perhaps like the Pepsi
    vs Coke battles of last century, both companies gain more from the
    publicity - and particularly from developing customer "brand loyalty",
    which is a great way to lock in future profit, by using such tactics to
    convince customers that there really is a difference, and that it really
    matters.
    The worst part of all this (IMO) is the market acceptance that more and
    more devices are throwaway lifestyle accessories. Apple's
    non-serviceability of their new MacBook pro must be deliberate, yet the
    device still appeals to to me (not an iFan) on some levels.
    http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Display-Teardown/9462/1#.T97vqLX9N8E
     
    Me, Jun 24, 2012
    #9
  10. In article <4fe6efa6$>, Enkidu <> wrote:
    (snip)

    >No, it's the users - falling for the old 'upgrade and get the latest
    >shiny buttons' trick.


    Yep. Problem identified. Now, if only there was a solution to stupidity ...
    :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jun 25, 2012
    #10
  11. peter

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <4fe78296$>, ,
    Enkidu says...
    >
    > On 24/06/12 22:54, Dave Doe wrote:
    > > In article <4fe6efa6$>,
    > > , Enkidu says...
    > >>
    > >> On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on
    > >>>> their upgradability to new major versions.
    > >>>
    > >>> As are iPhones.
    > >>>
    > >>> Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do
    > >>> what the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone,
    > >>> Android and Windows Phone.
    > >>>
    > >> There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    > >> difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and
    > >> software.

    > >
    > > Sure, but with all due respect, we're talking phone here.
    > >

    > yeah, I know. My point was that PC software developers develop for more
    > than one platform, so why can't phone software developers?


    I think the main reason is that phones don't enjoy a reasonably common
    hardware platform that PC's have enjoyed since 1981.

    I remember my early PC days, on a TRS-80 - other computers around
    (excepting mainframes of course) where the Commodore and a couple others
    I can't remember anymore.

    Then IBM released their PC blueprint - and *everything* changed.
    Phones, for reasons that I think are reasonably obvious, will never go
    that way anytime soon.

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, Jun 25, 2012
    #11
  12. peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On 25/06/12 12:20, Dave Doe wrote:
    > In article <4fe78296$>, ,
    > Enkidu says...
    >>
    >> On 24/06/12 22:54, Dave Doe wrote:
    >>> In article <4fe6efa6$>,
    >>> , Enkidu says...
    >>>>
    >>>> On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on
    >>>>>> their upgradability to new major versions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> As are iPhones.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do
    >>>>> what the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone,
    >>>>> Android and Windows Phone.
    >>>>>
    >>>> There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    >>>> difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and
    >>>> software.
    >>>
    >>> Sure, but with all due respect, we're talking phone here.
    >>>

    >> yeah, I know. My point was that PC software developers develop for more
    >> than one platform, so why can't phone software developers?

    >
    > I think the main reason is that phones don't enjoy a reasonably common
    > hardware platform that PC's have enjoyed since 1981.
    >
    > I remember my early PC days, on a TRS-80 - other computers around
    > (excepting mainframes of course) where the Commodore and a couple others
    > I can't remember anymore.
    >
    > Then IBM released their PC blueprint - and *everything* changed.
    > Phones, for reasons that I think are reasonably obvious, will never go
    > that way anytime soon.
    >

    There's only so many types of processor, ram and the rest that are used
    in phones. I think that they can do it. Android runs on many sorts of
    phones.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Jun 26, 2012
    #12
  13. peter

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <>, ,
    Enkidu says...
    >
    > On 25/06/12 12:20, Dave Doe wrote:
    > > In article <4fe78296$>, ,
    > > Enkidu says...
    > >>
    > >> On 24/06/12 22:54, Dave Doe wrote:
    > >>> In article <4fe6efa6$>,
    > >>> , Enkidu says...
    > >>>>
    > >>>> On 24/06/12 18:12, Dave Doe wrote:
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>> Plenty of Android devices around are also quite restricted on
    > >>>>>> their upgradability to new major versions.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> As are iPhones.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> Jesus... how can the OP expect a non multi-core based phone to do
    > >>>>> what the new ones do. They're all in the same boat, iPhone,
    > >>>>> Android and Windows Phone.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>> There was much more OS overlap in the computer market - several
    > >>>> difference generations of hardware would run the same OS and
    > >>>> software.
    > >>>
    > >>> Sure, but with all due respect, we're talking phone here.
    > >>>
    > >> yeah, I know. My point was that PC software developers develop for more
    > >> than one platform, so why can't phone software developers?

    > >
    > > I think the main reason is that phones don't enjoy a reasonably common
    > > hardware platform that PC's have enjoyed since 1981.
    > >
    > > I remember my early PC days, on a TRS-80 - other computers around
    > > (excepting mainframes of course) where the Commodore and a couple others
    > > I can't remember anymore.
    > >
    > > Then IBM released their PC blueprint - and *everything* changed.
    > > Phones, for reasons that I think are reasonably obvious, will never go
    > > that way anytime soon.
    > >

    > There's only so many types of processor, ram and the rest that are used
    > in phones. I think that they can do it. Android runs on many sorts of
    > phones.


    Sure it does. But my point is the *latest* Android does not.

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, Jun 26, 2012
    #13
  14. peter

    Guest

    On Saturday, 23 June 2012 07:55:25 UTC+1, peter wrote:
    > "Microsoft unveiled Windows Phone 8, the next version of its mobile
    > platform. As part of the announcement, Microsoft admitted that no current
    > Windows Phones will be upgradeable to the new platform. ... Microsoft just
    > killed the market for Windows Phones. No customer will buy one today knowing
    > that it will be outdated and not upgradeable in months."
    >
    > http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-just-shafted-its-most-important-
    > smartphone-partner-nokia-2012-6
     
    , Jun 27, 2012
    #14
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